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Discussion Starter #1
Okay, I have finally broken down. I have come to the conclusion that in order to gain any logjevity from the Dmax. an aftermarket fuel filter is required. No thanks to the engineers at GM.


Lets talk. Will the addition of a filter void my warranty?


Who makes the best filter? Pre or post? Water seperator? Heater? Air seperator? Tank drain? Lift pump? Ease of instalation? All input would appreciated. Vendors, users, and observors alike. I know that alot of this info. will be a repeat for you pro's but I would appreciate an updated discussion. More filters have become available and theory's change.
 

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I understand your concern and confusion, Bronco, but asking for a definitive answer for the "best" is counterproductive. There is no simple answer and no one can give you a definitive "best" (unless they have an agenda). There are too many options with too many variations and they are too close in performance to get that answer. That being said, I personally have a Kennedy Mega filter post-OEM on my truck under the airbox. It's been on there for about 3,000 miles and 3 months. I've had no stalls or vapor lock issues, but it's been cold here in Ohio and those issues seem to be heat-related. (I guess I'll find out in a few weeks when I head home to South Florida for 14 days!) It was a clean install and I like the location for security and access (I've put riv-nuts and bolts in my passenger wheel well liner for accessing the OEM and the Mega for service.) I didn't like the long reach in the gap between the headlight and the airbox to get to the vent screw, so I plumbed up an extension with an acrylic "sightglass" for easier access and visual indication of filter fill. I do practically 100% of my own maintenance and am concerned, but not losing sleep, over warranty issues for the next 24,000 miles. Haven't had any real problems with the truck in 76,000 miles since purchasing in Oct of 2001 and that helps my confidence. To avoid the sparring that gets started on this issue, I think you should rephrase your question to "what are the positives, negatives and experiences with your secondary filtration choice?"
 

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Here is some good info on the stock OEM filter capability..

TOPIC
 

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Don't know who's filter setup is best, Racor, Mega and Cat all seem to do an excellant job filtering and are below cleanliness levels for a 23,000 psi system.


Will it void the warranty? Who knows, what does your service advisor say?? I decided to go with the Nick Cat filter setup. It is easy to get to, easy to service and was easy to install. Filters can be had for 17 bucks at the local Cat dealer. I have had it on the truck for 6,000 miles and lowest temp it has seen was last week's cold snap where it got to -5 on Monday or Tuesday (and that was at 2pm!!) No problems with air, no need for a lift pump.


How far can I go on a Pre OEM Cat filter?? Duno, but after seeing Nick's picks of his 12k filter, I am gonna go for 15k and see what it looks like, if not, then I'll change it sooner, at least it is easier to change than the OEM filter IMHO.


Bob
 

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Wow, debate is a good word to attach to this. It usually gets hot...As far as warranty goes you should be safe. It'd be best to check with your dealer first or make sure they never see it. Most are good with it though. The addition of any quality filter will help no matter if it's pre or post OEM. Post OEM is the most efficient because the bigger stuff is caught in the OEM and the smaller in the aftermarket one. Post OEM is not practical for everyone though. If you have an EGR like I do or your dealer is good with one as long as the fuel goes through the OEM last are some very good reasons to stick with Pre OEM.
Where to put it and what set up to buy. The debate on by the tank or under the air-box will likely go on forever. They both have worked for many, so it’s really up to you based on whet you feel is best for you.
You can easily pick up all the parts and put it all together yourself. However even easier, there are two complete kits on the market specifically made for these trucks. The Mega kit from Kennedy Diesel utilizes a Baldwin element, it is intended to be mounted under the air-box utilizing the air-box mount. At this location it can be easily plumbed in pre or post OEM. It features a bleeder for post OEM applications. The Nicktane kit from Nicktane diesel utilizes a Caterpillar element, it is intended to be mounted in the left rear quarter panel and includes a bracket to mount it. Either kit can be altered and mounted in either location and plumbed pre or post OEM if mounted in the engine compartment. The elements for both kits are widely available, making them both convenient.
The debate on which kit is better is likely to never end. It’s kinda like the Ford vs. Chevy debate, both good products and guys will back up what they choose. So the choice is ultimately yours I recommend that you look at what’s available and make your decision based on what’s best for you and your truck.

OxEdited by: BlueOx03
 

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Has anyone other than me had this thought.(I am waiting for a Nicktane Filter...for the record)


There is a large group of Duramax owners adding a second pre or post filter setup to "help" there truck. And lets says it is really working, great for us, right? But are we just masking up bad engineering and helping GM buy not having them reach into there pockets to fix the problem for good? Are we doing a dis-service to other Dmax owners who did not have a second fitler or even know about it?


I really do wounder about this, because with us helping them out with the problem it might never get fixed....and when we go and buy our next Dmax in 2008 at a price of $60,000 the problem might still be there.


In closing the Blue Oval had some MAJOR injector problems in the '03s. Guess what the the '04s have? Ready for this....TWO FILTERS. They had a major problem and fixed it(03s are still out of luck). My Stroker buddies are not installing aftermarket fitlers.


Please....do not start with the Dmax this and Powerstroke that! It is about having a problem and fixing it, that is all.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Thank you all,


No wake, I have given up on changing GM. It seems to be the price you pay for drivin a bowtie. Now if there were 1000 angry Dmax owners that would demand GM fix a problem rather thatn pay for it out of there own pockets, that might be different.


The above info. has helped me formulate my own opions. Ther is still one topic that has not been hit. Fuel heaters. I do not even think my stock set up came with one? Do any of the aftermarket? Are they required?
 

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What are the chances of someone finally coming out with a stock replacement filter that will be superior to the one available? Surely someone will engineer a stock replacement that will filter at the level we need it to. Any manufacture out there planning this??????


Justin
 

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No wake...those are some very good points, I don't recall it being brought up before. The problem is that I don't think many people want to let their injectors take a beating to make a point with GM. Maybe if they realize that Ford recognized the problem and acted to correct it, they may do the same. The Duramax is GM's first real contender in sales and I'm sure they'd like to protect that..maybe not..we'll see...





Ox
 

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Discussion Starter #10
A filter that plugs into the stock location? This I like!! One problem I see with moving filters to the front of the truck or outside the frame rail, is the liabillaty. They would be much more easily damaged in an accident. That is why GM puts them where they are.


ON EDIT: what are the specs on the LLY filter. I heard it was longer. Maybe it is more effecient? I heard it will screw right on all of the old trucks?Edited by: Bronco
 

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It would be nice to have an OEM replacement. Using two filers will still remove more partials though. Yes both the Nicktane and Mega kits are meant to be located in more vulnerable positions than OEM. However this isn't a problem like the old sidesaddle tanks, diesel isn't as volatile as Gasoline....





Ox
 

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Bronco, on the fuel heater question: there is a small fuel heater wired into the OEM filter head. Most of fuel heating, however, occurs as fuel drawn from the tank is circulated through both fuel injection control modules (FICM) to remove the heat produced in their electronics, then passed through the pump and injectors where it picks up additional engine and compression heat before bypass flow is returned to the fuel tank.
 

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juicemac78 said:
What are the chances of someone finally coming out with a stock replacement filter that will be superior to the one available? Surely someone will engineer a stock replacement that will filter at the level we need it to. Any manufacture out there planning this??????


Justin

I think someone will do this eventually, Justin. But, as I understand it, Racor has a patent on this system, so no one will be able to do so until the patent runs out. IIRC, the patent was good for ten years, so it would probably run out in 2010-2011. Maybe someone else knows the particulars on the patent more specifically.


BTW, I am about 35 miles from you in Russellville.
 

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Bronco


Check out Hoots application, It surived a tree crash



Geno
 

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Just as I figured...only one person agreed with my post.



Maybe one day GM will send us a thank you note with a free truck for helping them out with injector problem.


Another question, has the Nicktane fitler been presented to the GM engineers or 'higher ups' to get a stamp of approval or even put into production for the new line of Duramax?
 

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NoWake200,

Talked to Racor applications engineer yesterday regarding the rumor of GM, and RACOR working on a resolution. Mentioned that he had heard just that, but there no date for release, etc. Not sure if a pre or post, but they recognize the filters limitiations, but I assume trying to deal with potential liability issues as they had with the 6.5. Also discussed the application of 2 micron prior to a larger OEM, and of course the cart before the horse came up. TurbineDoc responded with the same data months back, and I got the same response from a Baldwin apps engineer, but my question is if I want 2 micron filtration, but want to stick with pre OEM as long as flow to the OEM is not restricted, and I do not experience catastrophic failure in the pre 2 micron, how can it hurt. Obviously if the 2 micron blows, as TurbineDoc stated the media may flow to the OEM, and cause it to fail dumping a huge load of garbage into the injectors, but has anyone experienced this? I PM'd Nick requesting the Cats flow rate, and I theorize without any science that as long as you change the Cat, Mega, Racor, and Baldwin (They have a head, and filter solution just like the others) regularly that hopefully worst case will not occur.
Now having said that I talked to my dealers service manager, and he had no objections to pre OEM. He did state that using either a larger or smaller filter in the pre or post position would if clogged cause them to refure to tow me, etc. Again, back to the need for regular maintenance.
I for one will install pre OEM, just cannot decide which to get, or construct on my own.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Is it true the LLY filter is longer? Is it a better filter? What are the specs.?
 

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silatman,


There are a lot of people running Pre-OEM filters on this website. I have not heard of a situation where a filter "blows apart". Running the finer filter first, while not optimal from a filtration point of view, works just fine. Look at the construction of the Cat filter on Nick's website. Looks really well built. Regular maintenance is all that is required. Change the filters every 10k miles and you will be fine.


With regard to the extra vacuum required by the fuel system because a supplemental filter has been added; I measured less than a 0.25inHg increase in vacuum with the installation of my Racor R660S filter assembly. I expect the Cat exhibits the same. That increase is negligible.
 

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I'm just curious, have any of you Durmax owners ever noticed any of the dealers where you have bought your trucks, offering any of the after market filtering systems for sale, and as a dealer install.
 

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If Dmax owners really want to find the solution to failing injectors (I doubt the problem is as big as this post makes it seem)there is only one place to start...Bosch. Bosch has the most exposure as they are the ones taking the beating. Sure the injector installation is not cheap but if I were GM I would pass those costs on to Bosch.


Bosch came out with this new high pressure system..now they need to come out with a revolutionary filtration system.








SmokeyMax
 
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