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Discussion Starter #1
I am looking at towing a 5er which has a dry weight of 10,258 LBS. According to my manual and data plate information my max tow weight is 13,700. My tow vehicle weighs 10,000 PDS. My GCWR is 25,300. The GVWR is 14,500. Vertical Tow Weight Rating (VTWR) is 3,425. I would not be loading out the trailer with anymore than 13,700 PDS. I haven't bought the toy hauler as of yet. I would like to get the forums advice to make sure that I've done my homework right before i actually make the purchase. The UVW of the 5er (curb weight) is 10,258. The toy is a HD Ultra Classic which weighs 900+. About 500 pounds of cargo weight will go in the trailer. It has a 100 gallon fresh water tank (800 LBS) for boon-docking. I won't be dragging that weight around except for when i'm boon-docking on public land or without water sources. The details of my truck, hitch and future trailer are in my signature block. If I buy the trailer based on the feedback which I get from this site I will be using the B&W hitch (found on their web site) chart/worksheet for determining my tow vehicle and trailer's actual weight using a public scale. B&W's web site has a great chart for all types of tow vehicles (2010 and up) and for all types of trailers. Thanks for helping out.
 

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My opinion is that your existing truck is not enough for your toy hauler. You need to be in the 1 ton class, preferably a dually, or larger. My trailer is often in the 12K range and I have done LOTS of mods to my truck in an attempt to get it to handle my weight. I would have been much better off with a 1 ton to start with. Like many, I got the truck before the trailer. Should have done it the other way around - trailer first. Live and learn.

Whichever fifth wheel you purchase, your B&W hitch is a great choice. Just make sure your use a plastic 'lube plate' on the pin.
 

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I'll second what Ron said. You will be overweight easily. Towing it, yes the truck probably can for short distances. The issue becomes can it safely stop with It? I'd suggest a 3500. If you are looking at long distance or lots of highway towing, consider dual rear wheels for better stability.

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confused. you say your TV has a weight of 10,000 and GVWR of 14,500 but the sig say 2500HD. A 2500HD has a GVWR of 10,000 and and empty weight around 7000=7400 depending on configuration.

I agree with the others. you will be overweight. First, by the time you put batteries, propane, food and other stuff in the toyhauler you will likely be adding closer to 1000 lbs.

pin weight alone may put you over GVWR of the truck.

Heck, I tow a 9,000lb bumper pull with my 2500HD and with the trailer hooked up, the bed full of camping stuff and a few passengers I go over the scales at 9600-10,000 lbs for the truck alone. I'm pushing the GVWR of the truck with a bumper pull. and a 5'r has 25% or so pin weight instead of 15% for a bumper pull.
 

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This is a tough one..

Can it, yes.
Should it, debatable at best, plenty of people do, but people also jump off bridges.

The only thing you could do differently is get a dual rear wheel truck for added stability. There isn't any difference between a 2500 and 3500 that couldn't be overcome with a set of air bags. The brakes are the same, the frame is the same, the torsions are the same, gearing is the same, it's literally only a leaf pack that changes the set up.
 

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This is a tough one..

Can it, yes.
Should it, debatable at best, plenty of people do, but people also jump off bridges.

The only thing you could do differently is get a dual rear wheel truck for added stability. There isn't any difference between a 2500 and 3500 that couldn't be overcome with a set of air bags. The brakes are the same, the frame is the same, the torsions are the same, gearing is the same, it's literally only a leaf pack that changes the set up.
:coolnana: what he said. Just be careful ... best I can tell it looks like you are on the wrong side of the "overloaded" line and that can be a dangerous place
 

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Discussion Starter #7
ktmrfs you're right about the dry weight and the 10,000 GVWR for the 2500HD. I was using the term GVWR, which the B&W worksheet (for my truck) was using, but they were using the GVWR as the weight for the truck on the scale and the trailer (hooked up) off the scales. The worksheet showed that weight on the scale should be less than the 14,500 (GVWR). Probably the wrong terminology for B&W to use. It's confusing. I went to the scale this AM and weighed just the truck with a full tank of fuel, 2 pax and a tool box in the bed of truck. The scale ticket said 8400. So according to that figure I only have 1600 pounds left till I reach my 10,000 GVWR. Here is where I get confused with these weights. Is that weight (10,000-8400=1600) what I could feasibly put in the bed of the truck if I was hauling some dirt/mulch or motorcycle or does it also pertain to what the weight a fifth wheel trailer would add to it? The chevy duramax manual gives me a weight of 13,700 max tow weight and if 25% of that number is 3,425 for a fifth wheel/gooseneck vertical tow weight. Based on that information that the manual provides, the GVWR (GVWR) is far exceeded by the vertical tow weight of possible 25%. I fully understand and agree to what everyone has advised me about the truck not being enough to get the job done safely. BTW Ron Nielson, I thought I had choose my trailer beforehand (Wells Cargo CVG28) the truck, but they were taking so long to build it that I fired them and went the fifth wheel route. I had planned on just installing a Vertilift bed (day bed) and some living amenities. Didn't work out. Oh well. I appreciate the feedback from everyone and if anyone has anything else to add to this thread...by all means.
 

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The brakes are the same, the frame is the same, the torsions are the same, gearing is the same, it's literally only a leaf pack that changes the set up.
And tires and wheels may be different also, at least on my 2008 model.

on 2500: tires 245X75x16 capy 3042 lbs; 6 1/2" wheel width
on 3500: tires 265X75X16 capy 3415 lbs: 7" wheel width

That means that the 2500 can have 6084 lbs on rear axle vs 3500 having 6830 lbs. 746 lbs more on 3500.

So for other years, look at the tire capacities to see if there is a difference for your model. There very well may not be a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I am looking at towing a 5er which has a dry weight of 10,258 LBS. According to my manual and data plate information my max tow weight is 13,700. My tow vehicle weighs 10,000 PDS. My GCWR is 25,300. The GVWR is 14,500. Vertical Tow Weight Rating (VTWR) is 3,425. I would not be loading out the trailer with anymore than 13,700 PDS. I haven't bought the toy hauler as of yet. I would like to get the forums advice to make sure that I've done my homework right before i actually make the purchase. The UVW of the 5er (curb weight) is 10,258. The toy is a HD Ultra Classic which weighs 900+. About 500 pounds of cargo weight will go in the trailer. It has a 100 gallon fresh water tank (800 LBS) for boon-docking. I won't be dragging that weight around except for when i'm boon-docking on public land or without water sources. The details of my truck, hitch and future trailer are in my signature block. If I buy the trailer based on the feedback which I get from this site I will be using the B&W hitch (found on their web site) chart/worksheet for determining my tow vehicle and trailer's actual weight using a public scale. B&W's web site has a great chart for all types of tow vehicles (2010 and up) and for all types of trailers. Thanks for helping out.
Correction on the OP. The 10,000 pound rating is the GVWR of vehicle NOT the vehicle's weight. The 14,500 pounds is the limit when the TV and trailer are hooked up and the truck only is on scale. B&Ws worksheet chart labels this truck trailer configuration as GVWR.??? When I plugged my vehicle's general information (no weights) into the their towing these are the numbers which auto filled into the first page of the worksheet.
25,300 GCWR
14,500 GVWR (TV/trailer hooked up with only TV on scale)
13,700 Max Tow Rating
3,425 Vertical Towing Weight Rating
The second page showed (pictures) the different ways that you need to weigh truck and trailer etc.
This is the link for towing help at B&W:
B&W Trailer Hitches | Fifth Wheel Tow Ratings |
 

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Discussion Starter #11
So I found a smaller toy hauler fifth wheel that has a UVW (unloaded) weight of 8,997, which is 1,261 pounds lighter than the original (1,258). The GVWR of the trailer is 12,996. I plan on always keeping my cargo weight limit at 12,000 pounds to err on the side of safety. It doesn't have a slide out, 5' less in length, only 1 A/C unit instead of 2, awning covers less. Bottom line is that this is 1,261 pounds less. I know that with the original 5er that I was looking at I was borderline of being over the wrong side of the overload line. Is this weight reduction of 1,261 pounds going to help me to the point of being "safe" in the areas of stopping and also being able to climb/descend those grades while traveling the USA. Also, is the technology, such as the exhaust break and hill descent features that is on my 2017 truck going to get the job done? Feedback please...
 

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There are 2 things you MUST KNOW in order to make an informed judgement about your truck and trailer. You need to know ACTUAL REAL WORLD WEIGHTS for both truck and trailer, obtained in such a way as to determine the pin weight and these must be the weights that you would see while in use, all loaded up, all tanks full, all toys in the trailer, all people, dogs, neighbors, etc in the truck. Most trailer brands have a website that have real world owners who have weighed their trucks/trailers and can tell you what to expect. The weights published by trailer manufacturers are just not usable for your purposes.
 

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So I found a smaller toy hauler fifth wheel that has a UVW (unloaded) weight of 8,997, which is 1,261 pounds lighter than the original (1,258). The GVWR of the trailer is 12,996. I plan on always keeping my cargo weight limit at 12,000 pounds to err on the side of safety. It doesn't have a slide out, 5' less in length, only 1 A/C unit instead of 2, awning covers less. Bottom line is that this is 1,261 pounds less. I know that with the original 5er that I was looking at I was borderline of being over the wrong side of the overload line. Is this weight reduction of 1,261 pounds going to help me to the point of being "safe" in the areas of stopping and also being able to climb/descend those grades while traveling the USA. Also, is the technology, such as the exhaust break and hill descent features that is on my 2017 truck going to get the job done? Feedback please...
I tow commercially with the truck in my signature. As long as you run good tires and don't exceed your tire ratings you will be fine as long as the trailer brakes and truck brakes are in good working order. I have 755,000 miles on my truck towing CDL loads most over 12,000 lbs. I stop at all weigh stations. As long as you drive with some sense and keep the speed no higher than 65 or 70 you will have no problems legal or otherwise. I would recomend air bags to keep the truck level and with the trailer loaded take it over scales at a truck stop to check your axle weights to be sure your under the weight rating of your tires. Duallies are more stable but not necessary for the weight your talking as long as everything is loaded correctly.
 

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HDGlide52, you have the advantage of the factory engine brake that rose of us with older trucks do not!
Keep tow/haul mode on whenever hooked up and you will probably be good. Agree on getting air bags.

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Discussion Starter #15
IGO1320, thanks for the reply and the information that you provided. Roger on the weighing of the vehicle/trailer when loaded up. The tough part of this decision is that I don't have the trailer to weigh at this point and it's all hypothetical calculations on the load out that I'm making at this point. However, I've concluded that for me and the best piece of mind is to move into a 3500 DRW. I spent yesterday shopping around to see what this is going to cost me and have 3 offers to consider today. Bottom line is that I'll lose a few grand on the trade up but I got them down to $0 down and my payment won't be any more than $90 of what I'm paying now. I'm losing the 0% financing and going to 3.69% for 84 months. Once again thanks for taking the time to help with your input and that also goes for all the others who replied. Cheers
 

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HDGlide52, you won't be sorry by going to the 3500 DRW.
A bit of advice from a dually owner; take it around the block a few times, practice backing into your driveway, etc so you get the feel of the dually's handling and width.
Do some dry runs locally with your trailer once you get it, including some highway if you've got one close by. This gets the feel of the combo, especially braking.
Also, once you get it snap a picture and join the dually club here!

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ktmrfs you're right about the dry weight and the 10,000 GVWR for the 2500HD. I was using the term GVWR, which the B&W worksheet (for my truck) was using, but they were using the GVWR as the weight for the truck on the scale and the trailer (hooked up) off the scales. The worksheet showed that weight on the scale should be less than the 14,500 (GVWR). Probably the wrong terminology for B&W to use. It's confusing. I went to the scale this AM and weighed just the truck with a full tank of fuel, 2 pax and a tool box in the bed of truck. The scale ticket said 8400. So according to that figure I only have 1600 pounds left till I reach my 10,000 GVWR. Here is where I get confused with these weights. Is that weight (10,000-8400=1600) what I could feasibly put in the bed of the truck if I was hauling some dirt/mulch or motorcycle or does it also pertain to what the weight a fifth wheel trailer would add to it? The chevy duramax manual gives me a weight of 13,700 max tow weight and if 25% of that number is 3,425 for a fifth wheel/gooseneck vertical tow weight. Based on that information that the manual provides, the GVWR (GVWR) is far exceeded by the vertical tow weight of possible 25%. I fully understand and agree to what everyone has advised me about the truck not being enough to get the job done safely. BTW Ron Nielson, I thought I had choose my trailer beforehand (Wells Cargo CVG28) the truck, but they were taking so long to build it that I fired them and went the fifth wheel route. I had planned on just installing a Vertilift bed (day bed) and some living amenities. Didn't work out. Oh well. I appreciate the feedback from everyone and if anyone has anything else to add to this thread...by all means.
yup, you only have 1600lbs of cargo capacity left in your 2500HD. My CC 4x4 short box denali has 2600lbs. and it doesn't make any difference if the 1600lbs is in the bed, in the seats, hanging on the bumper or any combo theroff.

the numbers given by TV mfg often assume the lowest possible vehicle weight (std cab, short box, bare bones truck gas engine, driver only, nothing else in the cab or box) and 10% tongue weight or 20% pin weight. But Trailer mfg design usually for around 15% tongue weight or 25-30% pin weight.

So, in reality it is pretty rare to ever be able to tow either a bumper pull or 5th wheel that the TV mfg claims you can.
 

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Towed a Columbus from Goshen In to Dover fl this weekend. Trailer GVWR was 15997 lbs, actual weight was 13,200 lbs. Went over the scales no problems from DOT. I do this 100,000 miles a year.
 

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I've towed pull trailers vacationing for about 13 years, mostly in the mountains. I've noticed that I'm much more comfortable towing when I'm less than about 80% of the GCWR, than being right up to the limit. I've got a significant financial investment and my family with me, why would risk it all being over loaded?
I weigh the truck's axles (before and after weight distribution), the trailer tongue, and the trailer axles. My last toy hauler was 1500 lbs. heavier and 180 lbs. more tongue weight and it's amazing how different it was to tow than the one I have now.
Leave a good buffer on the weights, it's more controllable and your truck will last longer.
 
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