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Discussion Starter #1
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7qsaH3gbjZqSEJvTHlmVGtwMGc

This was my start after our first freezing overnight temps. Truck has always had long starts. Injector pump finally fail? PMD?

Replaced the battery (2 new batteries now) and get this:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7qsaH3gbjZqUUdhdXFkOFRqZGs

Recent engine maintenance from the last few weeks:


  1. Bosch Duraterm Glow Plugs
  2. Badger Diesel Turbo replacement
  3. Heath turbo master
  4. Starter
  5. Serpentine Belt
  6. Running Diesel Kleen
  7. Oil Filter / Air Filter / Fuel Filter
  8. 2 New Batteries
  9. Fresh coolant / Heater hoses.
Truck was running great / boosting fine until I tried to start it this morning. Luckily I filmed the 1st crank because their was frost windshield and I thought it would be an interesting start. I've never owned this truck through a winter.
 

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Whistle Pigs Are Cool
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1995 GMC Suburban
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Let me say it again "NEVER ASSUME THAT NEW PARTS ARE GOOD".

Load test those 2 new batteries one at a time.
I have heard member with new batteries only last a few days.

Also check the fuses and all the cables and grounds and terminals.
Those thing do not have to be good when temp is high but any bad connections may cause issue in the winter when it needs all the amps.
 

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Watched your first video, did not have permission to watch the second.

The starter did not sound healthy to me. But my ears like the rest of me are getting old.

Hit the starter as soon as the Wait To Start light goes out. Dont wait for the flashing Wait To Start.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Watched your first video, did not have permission to watch the second.

The starter did not sound healthy to me. But my ears like the rest of me are getting old.

Hit the starter as soon as the Wait To Start light goes out. Dont wait for the flashing Wait To Start.
New link should work:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7qsaH3gbjZqUUdhdXFkOFRqZGs/view?usp=sharing

I'm suspecting the "new" starter is shot -I've had it on there for a few months and less than a couple hundred miles.

I tried tapping it with a hammer while cranking the engine but no luck. The starter spins but it sound like the solenoid does not engage.
 

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Yeah, I think you are right. The starter does not sound like it is engaging the flex plate/fly wheel.

Make sure the starter has the front support bracket installed: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/21-6-5l-diesel-engine/732330-starter-hitting-flywheel-6.html#post7277730. Part #9 in the diagram.

Also, you need to wait 60 seconds after you attempt a start for the starter to cool down. Also, so the PCM resets and glow plugs will run a full heat cycle. Wait to Start light should be on for 8-10 seconds, and the light should stay on longer the colder it gets.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Yeah, I think you are right. The starter does not sound like it is engaging the flex plate/fly wheel.

Make sure the starter has the front support bracket installed: http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/21-6-5l-diesel-engine/732330-starter-hitting-flywheel-6.html#post7277730. Part #9 in the diagram.

Also, you need to wait 60 seconds after you attempt a start for the starter to cool down. Also, so the PCM resets and glow plugs will run a full heat cycle. Wait to Start light should be on for 8-10 seconds, and the light should stay on longer the colder it gets.
Shop confirmed the starter is bad AND the flywheel is shot -that is why it failed prematurely. Starter will get replaced under warranty but the flywheel labor is going to be around $400
 

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That is usually caused by whoever install the starter last time did not install the starter's back bracket (towards the front of truck so it is called front support) properly.
So, after you fix it, make sure that back bracket is installed properly/tightly.

It has caused a lot of people with issue like this.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
That is usually caused by whoever install the starter last time did not install the starter's back bracket (towards the front of truck so it is called front support) properly.
So, after you fix it, make sure that back bracket is installed properly/tightly.

It has caused a lot of people with issue like this.
New flex plate was installed and the starter was replaced under warranty. I verified that the front bracket on the starter was installed.

Old flex plate was well worn after +200K Replaced it with an ATP Z136

20151204_122605_resized.jpg

20151204_122611_resized.jpg

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Even with the new flex plate, I am still having a hard start issue. After sitting for 5 hours in 45 degree weather:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7qsaH3gbjZqREU4Y0EzX1ItdEk/view?usp=sharing

Codes: P0370 / P0251

Bad IP causing hard start?
 

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Let's take the Truck!
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Sounds like a healthy crank. Id say you should install a clear line on the ip return short hose about 4" 1/4 id line. After sitting watch for bubbles when you attempt start this will indicate or rule out air from drainback. Could be restriction also but I would guess you may see decreased performance with restriction sputtering etc. Dont be an ip statistic due to undiagnosed fuel system issues ive read alot of that here.
 

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It you have hard crank before, the Batteries may be going down.

Load test the batteries first.

This is in addition to checking the fuel flow as suggested above.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Sounds like a healthy crank. Id say you should install a clear line on the ip return short hose about 4" 1/4 id line. After sitting watch for bubbles when you attempt start this will indicate or rule out air from drainback. Could be restriction also but I would guess you may see decreased performance with restriction sputtering etc. Dont be an ip statistic due to undiagnosed fuel system issues ive read alot of that here.

Did not see any air bubbles coming from the IP hose:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7qsaH3gbjZqZHlNNE55QUdiTEE

One more:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7qsaH3gbjZqdS0ydUxrSjBLLVU

Fuel Filter Test:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B7qsaH3gbjZqaVAyNzV1aXVXM2c

Both batteries are brand new and crank is healthy.

I have to depress the accelerator fully when cranking for the engine to catch. This leads me to believe its a fuel supply issue.
 

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Codes: P0370 / P0251

Bad IP causing hard start?
Those codes can be set from a bad Optical Sensor on the IP. Sometimes from the Optical Sensor "eye" being dirty or from cloudy fuel. Try running a very heavy dose of Diesel Kleen in the fuel.

I have to depress the accelerator fully when cranking for the engine to catch. This leads me to believe its a fuel supply issue.
Fuel pressure gauge with sender installed between FFM and IP is a good fuel flow diagnostic tool.
 

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Also, check the ECM-B fuse?
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Those codes can be set from a bad Optical Sensor on the IP. Sometimes from the Optical Sensor "eye" being dirty or from cloudy fuel. Try running a very heavy dose of Diesel Kleen in the fuel.



Fuel pressure gauge with sender installed between FFM and IP is a good fuel flow diagnostic tool.
I'm running Diesel Kleen now per manufacturers dosage, I will double it up to try and clear the codes.

I guess measuring the fuel pressure at the fuel filter bleed off valve is not ideal. Does anyone make a kit to tap the line between the IP / FFM ?


Also, check the ECM-B fuse?
Just checked the ECM-B fuse and it is intact.
 

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I guess measuring the fuel pressure at the fuel filter bleed off valve is not ideal.
There are guys that mount the fuel pressure gauge sender at the filter bleed valve. I think Leroy Diesel has the adapter for this.

Does anyone make a kit to tap the line between the IP / FFM ?
I bought a "fuel pressure gauge fitting" from Summit Racing. They have them in different sizes for different diameter fuel lines. The stock fuel line from the FFM to the IP is 1/4" ID. IIRC, the fitting is about $8 + shipping
 

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As rudimentary test, try to measure at the t-valve first and see if you can see any issue.
This is going to be a little easier and if that is already not good, then you know you have problem because this is a pre-filter pressure.
 

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I guess measuring the fuel pressure at the fuel filter bleed off valve is not ideal. Does anyone make a kit to tap the line between the IP / FFM ?
Leroy Diesel has a Fuel Pressure Tap listed here:
Leroy Diesel
 

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You guys think just his strainer is stopped up bad? Should he do the LP test first?
 
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