[BioSuburban]

Does anyone know where I can find a r&r procedure for 97 injection pump? I have been scouring all forums and google with no luck.
I have determined the pump needs to come out.

thanks

 

[joispoi]

Biosub, Welcome!

Please update your sig so that we can better help you. If under 120K miles, your IP is under warrantee.

 

[BioSuburban]

More info

More info:
I have a 97 suburban, 138k miles.
The injection pump was replaced at 100k by previous owner under warranty.
I have been running biodiesel (homebrew) for 5k miles now.

Problems started with some engine codes:
p0216 - pcm has determined a discrepancy between the "actual" and the "desired" injector timing.
p0335 - pcm .... a malfunction existis in the circuit for crank shaft position sensor "A"
p0753 - ...detected a short to gnd, a short to short to battery or open circuit in the shift solenoid "A"
p0758 - ...detected a short to gnd, a short to short to battery or open circuit in the shift solenoid "B"

The only symptom was the timing was normal at idle, but under acceleration the timing would shift to an advanced state.

I replace the crank shaft position sensor. ($36), then cleared the codes.
Ran fine until warm, then threw more codes:
p0216 - pcm has determined a discrepancy between the "actual" and the "desired" injector timing.
p0335 - pcm .... a malfunction exists in the circuit for crank shaft position sensor "A"
p0606 - ...an internal processor fault has occurred.

Then it went into a limp mode, could not get rpms over 2k, and the timing sounded very retarded.

I then drug it to the dealer for a diagnostic. not much help. told me it was the pump. said pmd was good.

It runs fine when cold but after a few minutes it throws codes.
I then replaced the PCM just in case. ($45). no help.

When it goes into limp mode it throws a:
p1214 - fuel metering problem
p0251 - (I think) something with pump performance.

I tested the lift pump power when in limp mode: it was good.

Unless there is anything I missed, I am assuming a problem with the internal pump mechanics or optical sensor.


Any insight would be appreciated
Thanks

 

[THEFERMANATOR]

Check your battery cables, many lately have reported multiple codes and found cable problems.

 

[BioSuburban]

I cleaned the bat cables before anything else. I agree there was some unrelated codes. I haven't seen the p0753 or the p0758 since.
I want to pull this thing this weekend. I just need to know of anything like marking the pump....ect.

 

[BioSuburban]

Anyone have the Helms manual that can give me some info.... please

 

[BornReady6.5]

Do you/or the dealer suspect the bio?

 

[Turbine Doc]

No way for the dealer to KNOW the PMD was good or bad, 1st thing try running on Diesel only, maybe you have some BIO sludge messing with optical, do you have to heat your bio, is it too cold/thick messing with operation.

I have a Helm but there is nothing I can help you with as far as Bio operation, try Diesel only and see if problem goes away, if you still have warranty coverage then you will want to be "Normal fuel" before going back to the dealer, PMD is a possibility, but lets get back to a normal configuration 1st, these trusk were never designed for bio even though they can run with it, your problem seems electrical but I just don't know with bio in the picture.

 

[greener_dreams]

Ip R&r

The dealer could have just plugged in a NEW pmd and viola, if the problem(s) stil persists it was not the PMD, right?

Additionally, the HELMS manual is worthless for an IP R&R. Instant / personal message me, if you get this in time I can help as I have the service manuals for the 6.5. THe R&R procedure is outlined in the manual and is farily brief. Plus, I just pulled mine, its not TOO bad..

cheers

 

[Turbine Doc]

Helm manual is the printer of the GM service manual www.helminc.com and I have the full set for 98 and 1990 GM trucks, you mean Haynes? those are generally useless I'll agree.

I doubt dealer plugged in a PMD for test, few dealers have on the shelf diagnostic spares for an out of production engine, but he may have had one; but yes that would have isolated it and really only way to say with any certanty. But I would insist on a new one only be installed, if he puts on his test PMD it is used IMO and would not leave me with a warm fuzzy to drive away on. If this is a warranty scenario, the policy says PMD and IP are replaced together, so don't settle on a PMD only in warranty action.

What I meant with my comment was there is no code displayed in nearly all bad drivers found to say the driver is at fault, so using a scan tool there is no way for the dealer to say if a driver is good or bad.

 

[greener_dreams]

alright

Agreed, it is most of the over-the-counter manuals that are useless in this (most) contexts for this vehicle. It is helm. Expensive but best thing ever for the 6.5 DIYer IMO.

I haven't heard from him, so maybe he got the R&R procedure somewhere else and is hopefully now covered in grease and has garage littered with pulled parts (that are labeled).

 

[Texas Diesel Guy]

I disagree with your diagnosis that the pump is bad, sounds to me more like you just need to relearn your TDC Offset and fix your tranny wiring.

 

[Turbine Doc]

Agreed, it is most of the over-the-counter manuals that are useless in this (most) contexts for this vehicle. It is helm. Expensive but best thing ever for the 6.5 DIYer IMO.

I haven't heard from him, so maybe he got the R&R procedure somewhere else and is hopefully now covered in grease and has garage littered with pulled parts (that are labeled).

I've never seen a Helm manual in any chain parts shop Autozone et Als, plenty of Chilton & Haynes

The only way I know of to aquire a Helm is from ordering via the web link above, order from the dealer, or sombody parting with theirs.

 

[BioSuburban]

Sorry guys, I've been away. I just recieved my Helms manuals, and no R&R procedure.

Greener_dreams you say you have a 6.5 manual, can you tell me how to get one. Helms does not list it seperatly for 97. The shop manuals I have refer to 6C2-1 for the "Diesel Injection Pump" but is not covered. (6A-6B, 6D-6E). It does however, have the diagnostic code fault tree. I will play with that this week end.

I drained the Bio before I took it to the dealer last month. ($2.59/gallon, sucks) It made no diff. Bio does not have to be heated (close to same viscosity) and can be mixed with diesel in any ratio. I could have had a high water content on one tank, but no "water in fuel" light.

Does the PMD have an efect on the timing? I thought it was in the fuel metering circiut.

 

[greener_dreams]

HelmInc Manuals for 6.5

Helm, Inc. (800) 782-4356. I believe it is the same manual for '94 through '95 gasoline and diesel suburbans and c/k 1500 - 2500s. However, the manuals do address gasoline and diesel separately as well as specific info pertaining to different models, unlike over the counter parts store manuals, which seem to group everything under the sun together.

I think its a good investment at about ~$150.00

However, I can email you the IP R&R info if that's all you need. Drop me a line if you wish at [email protected]. The procedure is surprisingly brief (its concise and kind of assumes you know what you are doing) but is extrememly helpful relative to any other info source (besides this site).

I should have my IP replacement complete tommorow!
<insert emoticon for nervous I-hope-it-works smile>

You'll have to pull the fuel manager / filter out to get at the IP, so you can change the water sensor then if needed.

I don't know what the PMDs role is on timing if any..sry

 

[SPEEDII]

I can help with the pump r&r procedure any questions that you have by the way the p0251 code is the optical sensor did you ck the filter harness to the sensor

 

[BioSuburban]

SpeedII, I haven't had to much time lately, but I will get it back together this week and go over all the wiring. Just wish I had a scan tool to check signals.

 

[BioSuburban]

The p0216 seems to be the most consistant. So I will check the stepper motor circuit first.

 

[nickg]

I found this it should help with your R&R of IP
http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34964&highlight=5288

 

[greener_dreams]

That is a helpful link, pictures are always great. However, it took me about four days of pulling components and gathering the right tools to get to the point where that thread picks up. Once you're to removing the IP itself you're almost done! Just an observation. Also, I never found it neccesary to mess with the A/C compressor. The helmInc procedure doesn't call for it either, interesting. Also some folks remove the turbo for better access to injectors. I only removed the turbo fan shroud to get at #5 I think it was. If you're not pulling any injectors I see no point in messing with it either. I wasted a lot of time on trying to get the whole unit off basically for no reason.

good luck diagnosing. When mine went it didn;t set any codes. I checked the fuel supply, made sure there was no air and plenty of pressure and that I had a good PMD. After that I basically knew the IP had to go.