[protocrack]

hey guys im new in the diesel community and just got a 95 k3500. long story short bought new pmd, relocated it, new batteries, new starter, flex plate, fuel filter. have to wedge a crow bar between the starter and the block to keep the starter in place cause it jumps all over(entirely other problem) but will not "start". any ideas would greatly be appreciated.

 

[racer55]

Did you get the fuel filter bled properly?

Have you cracked loose an injector line and checked to see if fuel is making it to the injectors?

Lift pump working?

If you could for your next reply click the diagnostic checklist at the bottom of my post,then copy and paste it to your next reply.

After that edit in the answers to the questions and the results of the tests highlighted in blue(links with test descriptions).

The more info we have,the better we can help.

 

[protocrack]

1. Describe the problem you are having in detail: bought it 2 weeks ago terst drove it and was fine, drove it 22 miles and it died on the freeway. all pmd indications(was mounted on intake mani) after that i went through further investigation all engine mounts were loose, had to buy new starter, batteries and flex plate due to misalignment issues, fixed all that and now it cranks but doesnt start, also im having to hold the starter with a crow bar to keep it from sticking to the flex plate since it isn't shimmed correctly.

2. Year of truck/engine. 1995 6.5
3. Odometer reading (indicate miles or kilometers). 70,062
4. Indicate the model number on the Injection pump (starts DS4 or DB2......).
5. Indicate if you know if it’s a 1500, 2500, 2500HD, 3500, 3500HD. 3500
6. Do you have an EGR on the engine? (An F or an S engine code 8th VIN digit)
7. Air Filter condition (visual check). new
8. Fuel filter condition (freshly changed, mileage since changed). new(bled properly)
9. Location of PMD/FSD? (ex. on pump/remote over intake, behind bumper). firewall
9a. If remote mounted, describe wiring harness (homemade or purchased from which vendor). homemade
9b. Indicate the location and condition of the FSD/IP grounding wire.
10. Outside Temperature (C or F). _70____ °

11. Service Engine Light while running?- on/off/intermittent off
11a. Service Engine light does glow during start/cranking/bulb check: Yes/No yes
12.Have you scanned for engine codes? Yes/No no
12a. List exact results on engine codes.

13. Condition of Battery terminals (removed, cleaned and tightened). new, tight
14. Known condition and age of Batteries. new
14a. Are batteries a matched set of same age? yes
15. Condition of Major Grounds (removed, cleaned and tightened) good

16. Does engine crank, or "turn over"? cranks
16a. Does engine start and run? no
17. If engine does not start- Crack injector line: do you have fuel? Yes/No yes
18. Does your Wait To Start light come on? no
18a.Number of seconds WTS light is lit.
19. Engine Cranking speed (if you have an accurate tachometer).

20. Are you experiencing Stalling?
20a. Describe the event (upon startup only, down the road, hit a bump, etc...)
20b. Do you notice loss of dash or instruments?
21. Check turbo inlet and air filter for obstructions. clear
22. In a no-hot start, pour a bottle of room-temp water on the injection pump. Does it start now?
23. Lift pump test - Describe results.

24. Upon cold start, does the radiator hose get hard quickly? Yes/No
25. Upon cold start, do you have excessive white smoke? Yes/No
26. Do you have excessive cranking time before the engine starts? Yes/No
27. Have you used the block heater? Does it affect engine starting? (only try for starting problems).
28. Are all glow plugs in proper working order?

29. During hard acceleration, do you have excessive black smoke? Yes/No
30. Do you have any unusual exhaust smoke issues?
31. Turbo check out - Pass/Fail
32. Indicate fuel that you are using: Bio-Diesel, #2 Diesel, SVO/WVO, other #2
32a. If running Veggie Oil fuel setup, indicate details of your conversion (homemade or packaged system).
33. Are you using any fuel additives? If so, please list. no
34. Upon unscrewing fuel cap, do you have a large vacuum formed in the tank? Yes/No
35. Do you have any service history available that might pertain to the problem you are having? no
36. Please indicate any modifications to the vehicle that might help us diagnose better. none

 

[protocrack]

i will post the rest of the info tomorrow

 

[FloridaHorseman]

...have to wedge a crow bar between the starter and the block to keep the starter in place cause it jumps all over(entirely other problem) but will not "start". any ideas would greatly be appreciated.

Idea #1: Stop trying to crank that engine while using a crowbar for starter alignment! Your "entirely other problem" should be your PRIMARY concern right now because you're playing with catastrophic engine block damage, plus damaging your new flex plate. There are at least two other active starter problem threads you should read, in addition to reading the 6.5 Newbie and FAQ threads.

Your fuel delivery and no-start problems pale by comparison to what's going on with the starter. ~FH

 

[protocrack]

gonna get a new bracket tomorrow to see if that helps with the starter.

 

[FloridaHorseman]

In addition I suggest new starter bolts (metric - 10 mm diameter X 1.50 thread X 113 mm length) and a very close inspection of the bolt holes for out-of-round, stripped threads and cracks in the block casting surrounding the bolt holes. Good luck. ~FH

 

[protocrack]

bolts are new and good as well as the holes had to helicoil them from the previous starter but they are smooth and straight

 

[sctrailrider]

I'm with FH here, your started is your biggest concern first, get the right GM bolts and bracket on the front of the starter first....

Then, charge the batteries and open a few injector lines and get fuel squirting out of them then go from there...

 

[JMJNet]

I got the feeling that you may have to change the starter bolt again because the bracket was not installed. That bolt may have gotten bad.

Check the recent thread about this.

That is probably more of a starter not installed properly that cause starting.
This is common with 6.5L starter since that bracket is not easy to install.
The gasser never have it but their starter is about 1/2 the weight of this one.

 

[FloridaHorseman]

bolts are new and good as well as the holes had to helicoil them from the previous starter but they are smooth and straight

If you still have to shim the starter with a crowbar to get alignment something is not straight. And it's probably not just the lack of having the starter support bracket installed. There are hundreds if not thousands of 6.5's out there still starting properly without the use of a support bracket that got discarded along the way. That's not to say the bracket is not really necessary. But it does say the starter should align sufficiently with two good bolts and bolt holes that haven't lost their integrity.

I actually considered helicoiling both starter bolt holes on my engine even though only one was known to be out of spec. But my starter shop guy also suggested that was more likely to prevent proper alignment, since one good hole and one helicoiled hole would stand a better chance of keeping the starter aligned (with the help of the starter bracket) than risking an almost immeasurable drift away from dead center with the helicoil tap on both bolt holes and losing any chance of maintaining proper alignment.

Using a hand held tap and eye-balling the alignment for helicoiling a single head/water pump/intake manifold, bell housing bolt, etc., is a lot different than for the only two bolts supporting a part that is constantly trying to rip itself away from the block every time you turn the key and depend upon alignment tolerances in the 0.01" range to accomplish proper alignment.

The addition of a properly mounted starter support bracket might get your bendix meshing properly. But if you can presently change the starter alignment with a crowbar that would suggest to me the current bolts or bolt holes are not straight and are or have been subject to bending so slight from starter torque you might not be able to see it. I'd spend another $10 on new metric bolts to install when you put the support bracket on and hope your helicoil job didn't go awry. ~FH

 

[racer55]

As for your checklist 2 things jump out at me.
You didn't note the location of the PMD harness ground,it is mandatory that it be fastened to the IP.

No wait to start light-is the bulb out?
glow plug relay failed?
Does the volt gauge float with the glow cycle?
Any power getting to the glow plugs-check all 8.
These engines need glow plugs in 80 degree weather for the first start of the day!

 

[protocrack]

ok sorry it took a while just had some surgery and had been down for a while. so i fiexed the starter through a helicoiling, pmd is grounded to the pump and located on the fire wall. truck now will start but runs ruff, upon further investigation found 2 wires from the fire wall that were grounded out from the main harness coming through the firewall. they are tan/white, and black/white. when ungrounded my fuel tank pegs out on the cluster in the max position but truck starts, when ungrounded fuel gauge goes to normal and truck will not start and i am currently in the process of trying to locate a wiring diagram to find which sensor these 2 bastards go to. any ideas?

 

[protocrack]

also glow plugs work great. also wait to start light is out on the dash

 

[protocrack]

ok sorry it took a while just had some surgery and had been down for a while. so i fiexed the starter through a helicoiling, pmd is grounded to the pump and located on the fire wall. truck now will start but runs ruff, upon further investigation found 2 wires from the fire wall that were grounded out from the main harness coming through the firewall. they are tan/white, and black/white. when ungrounded my fuel tank pegs out on the cluster in the max position but truck starts, when ungrounded fuel gauge goes to normal and truck will not start and i am currently in the process of trying to locate a wiring diagram to find which sensor these 2 bastards go to. any ideas?

meant to say when grounded truck starts and tank reads actual but idles ruff, when ungrounded tank pegs max and will not start

 

[protocrack]

ok went to an autozone my buddy works at and got a wiring schematic and have gotten thus far. from the ecm tan/white comes out as D-1, and black/white comes out as C-1, however there is another C-1 that is orange on the other sied of the ecm which goes to the fuel pump relay. my question now is where is the fuel pump relay?

 

[racer55]

The lift pump relay should be on the passenger side firewall relay center with a LP relay fuse right beside it.
Often it is under a black cover with 3 screw caps and is marked in the plastic.

 

[protocrack]

know where i could find a pic?

 

[racer55]

here is a picture of LP relay jumpering,the relay is on the right:

 

[protocrack]

ok status update. appearently there is a missing relay so now the question is should i do the mod?