Diesel Place banner

1 - 20 of 451 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,943 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Van front crossmember & suspension - stock vs Quigley 4WD

Stock front bolt-on crossmember (front view):

Quigley 4WD front bolt-on crossmember:


Stock front bolt-on crossmember (rear view):


Quigley 4WD front bolt-on crossmember (rear view):
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,141 Posts
Looks like the Quigley is a gas van and the 2wd is a diesel. Does Quigley move the oil filter on the diesel vans?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,943 Posts
Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
The 2WD van is my 2010 3500 LMM van.

I was wondering about whether the front driveshaft would interfere with the oil filter,
but the transfer case and the front axle are both in the same place as on a 4WD pickup, so I guess it must have clearance.

Evidently 4WD Duramax pickup truck owners have to work around the front driveshaft to change the oil filter.

I couldn't find a picture of the oil filter on a 4WD DMax pickup, but I did find this:
"Just thought I would help the next guy keep soot laden oil off the front driveshaft and his face when removing a duramax filter."
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1761812
so I guess the front driveshaft runs under the DMax oil filter.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
898 Posts
how much does the quigley conversion cost?
and can they do the conversion without raising the height much?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,141 Posts
how much does the quigley conversion cost?
and can they do the conversion without raising the height much?
It runs almost 11 grand and raises the front 1-2in depending on T bar setting.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,943 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
how much does the quigley conversion cost?
and can they do the conversion without raising the height much?
The GM IFS conversion doesn't increase the ride height much, if any.

Quigley offers an optional 3" lifted IFS for $2,395:
http://www.quigley4x4.com/Products/NewProducts/LiftedIndependentFrontSuspensionLIFS.aspx

Cost for the 4WD conversion is $11,295 for a DMax van
Quigley's GM 4WD conversion pricing is here:
http://www.quigley4x4.com/OffersandPricing/GMModeland4x4PricingGuide.aspx
Torsion Bar Independent Front Suspension
Independent Differential
Front Axles Disconnect (no hub locks)
GM # 261 2-Speed Transfer Case
4 Wheel ABS
Tire Pressure Monitoring System
4x4 Indicator light
No Increase in height
Improved Road Manners
Better Ride and Handling Features
Built to meet US Standards.


Generally, Quigley will only do vans that are no older than 2 model years back from the current model year, and apparently they will only do conversions for individuals who already own their van is if they can fit it into their schedule. So, according to what they say, people who already own their van can't be sure that Quigley will do a 4WD conversion at any given time. They schedule months in advance, and the actual conversion takes a week or two (depending on their schedule).

2010+ DMax vans have 3.54 rear axle ratio, and there are no 3.54 gearsets for the GM 9.25" IFS front end, so Quigley changes the rear axle ratio to 3.73. I'm pretty sure the $11,295 price they show does not include changing the rear axle ratio.

If the van has already been registered, they also charge sales tax on the entire cost (almost $800), unless you have them deliver it out of state, and they charge a lot for that too, even if they're only delivering it 30 miles to just across the border into Maryland (~$400). I get the feeling that their "delivery" prices may be based on having to haul the van rather than drive it, since their focus is on converting vans that aren't yet registered.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,943 Posts
Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
FWIW, I'm seriously considering not having Quigley do my 4WD conversion. Quigley is not exactly all that flexible to work with. For example, they will not use the electrically-shifted transfer case, they will only use the manual shift (and I understand why - it makes the conversion simpler, but it also requires a hole in the floorpan and a shifter sticking up in not the most convenient location).

If I don't go with Quigley, I will make a fixture to make the custom front crossmember similar to the Quigley front crossmember.

That's really the only truly custom part in their conversion. The rear crossmember that anchors the torsion bars is technically a custom part too, but it's practically the same as a GM pickup truck part, only the length is a little different (I think) to match the different spacing of the van's frame rails.

I might make a kit of the special parts needed, if somebody else wanted to do their own 4WD van conversion, using pickup truck takeoff parts for everything else.
.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
183 Posts
If you make a kit for a DIY I would be interested in buying one. I am considering trying to convert one myself sometime.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
898 Posts
i may be interested in a kit as well.

what else would need to be custom made? transmission mount? front driveshaft?
does the front diff need any special brackets to mount?
are the a-arms, spindles, cv shafts, torsion bars all off the heavy duty trucks?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,943 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
i may be interested in a kit as well.

what else would need to be custom made? transmission mount? front driveshaft?
does the front diff need any special brackets to mount?
are the a-arms, spindles, cv shafts, torsion bars all off the heavy duty trucks?
All the parts in red in this photo

are off-the-shelf HD pickup, except the crossmembers, and the stock 2WD rear driveshaft will be slightly too long, and the tailshaft issue.

The parts needed from a donor 4WD HD pickup are: Rear torsion bar mount crossmember (will have to be modified or could also make one from scratch), torsion bars, lower control arms, front hubs, transfer case with output shaft yoke, tranny tailshaft housing, front driveshaft, front diff carrier, front axle shafts, and maybe the tailshaft out of the tranny.

The front driveshaft has to be the same* because the transfer case mounts in the same way, and the front diff & axlea mount in the same place.

The only other "minor" problem is that a 2WD version of the transmission (evidently) has a longer output shaft than the 4WD version. So that has to be changed, or else a custom tailshaft housing must be made to allow the longer tailshaft to remain. I think the spline count on the tailshaft is the same regardless of which type transmission it is.

Here's a chart showing spline counts:

Since the input & output shafts have different spline counts, the yoke that came with the transfer case will be needed (unless 2WD versions of the tranny have the same spline count as the transfer case output shaft). The transfer cases with p/n ending in "5" are used on 6.0L gas HD pickups, while the ones ending in "6" are used in DMax HD pickups. All these transfer cases are the newer design, have a case made of aluminum rather than magnesium, and don't have the infamous "pump rub" problem. The last three in this chart are full-time AWD transfer cases.

I saw a post somewhere that indicated that Quigley uses a custom-made adapter on the tailshaft to avoid having to change the tailshaft. I have looked and looked and cannot find that thread again, but I do remember that it was just one post that said that, and the poster sounded like he knew what he was talking about (but we know how that goes). I have no way to know if that is the case or not, and based on my past attempts to get info from Quigley, I doubt that they will reveal anything about what they do, even if you pay for them to do a conversion. But it would make sense for Quigley to make it as easy as they could, and having to tear a tranny down to change the tailshaft would not be the easiest way - if there was a workaround. that COULD be what that little thin red part is on the back of the tranny in the photo above, which looks like it has a white part after it. It could be a spacer.

*If they put a spacer back there to accomodate a longer tranny tailshaft, then it throws the front driveshaft length off too, meaning they'd have to provide a longer front driveshaft (but that wouldn't be a problem for Quigley, since that's how they got their start, as a custom driveshaft shop).

What I want to do is keep it as close to the same as a GM HD pickup as possible, and that means either using a 4WD version of the tranny, of changing out whatever is different about the 2WD version of the tranny. It is also possible that with the new 6L90, and the new MP transfer case that became available at the same time ('07.5 MY) that GM designed out the differences in tailshaft length. I do not know for sure, but I have been asking people who (I thought) would know, but thus far have I have not gotten a definitive answer.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,943 Posts
Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
It appears that Quigley has to remove, or shorten, the crossmember mounting bracket (outlined in red), to make room for the drive axles.
2WD 3500 van:

The corresponding points on the Quigley 4WD conversion are outlined in yellow & green:

Quigley makes a new crossmember to hold the front diff, and it appears to be mounted mainly, if not entirely, to the rear lower control arm mounting bracket.

4WD pickup front chassis:

The crossmember mount stops a lot higher than on a 2WD van. I don't know if 2WD pickups are the same as vans.


The right (passenger side) mount is handled completely differently too. It appears to be bolted to a small triangular plate fastened to the remaining part of the crossmember mount.

Quigley 4WD conversion:

4WD pickup front chassis:
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
898 Posts
not such an easy install it seems.

i wonder if quigley would sell a kit with instructions??
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,943 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
I wonder if quigley would sell a kit with instructions??
Nope. I am absolutely certain about that. And they won't sell any parts either. BTW, the photos I have aren't on their website, so normally they don't even give that much away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,943 Posts
Discussion Starter #17 (Edited)

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,943 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
so you going to put a complete how-to together? :D
I have more pics that I will post later. The van front end setup is significantly different than even a 2WD pickup. It's clear to me now that there probably won't be any kits forthcoming. Making a GM 2500/3500 van 4WD will require surgery on a lot of stuff welded on to the frame, and that would probably require pulling the engine out.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,943 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
A 2500/3500 van front frame section is completely different than a 2500/3500 pickup truck front frame section
The engine mounts are different too.

G237/G337 (155" WB) VAN FRAME

K209/309 (133" WB) Pickup truck FRAME



G237/G337 (155" WB) VAN FRONT FRAME SECTION

K209/309 (133" WB) Pickup truck FRONT FRAME SECTION
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 451 Posts
Top