[Liquid Liability]

What is the deal with the Edge system for the LBZ? They had initially said they would be to market in late January, then it was March and now there is no specified release date (that I can find).

Is the CPU programming that much different from the previous years that all of the programming wizards are stumped? I have not been able to see anyone on here who has even been able to block the EGR and add an exhaust to the LBZ without eventually throwing codes.

 

[torozmaster]

The ECU is alot faster and its a newer system. So they are trying to make sure there wont be any bugs in the system. If you have to have something now- the Bully Dog, PPE, and others have programmers out right now. Ive noticed that it takes longer for a box to come out than the programmers. Ive heard mayish before the Edge and Banks boxes come out. I dont want a bugged box, they can take all the time they want!

 

[Liquid Liability]

I am with you on the no bugs issue...that is why Edge is the best system IMO. I guess my beef is just that it looked like they had it worked out for a early '06 release and now it is not on the radar screen.

But even an exhaust upgrade is still out of the question until the code issue is resolved as well.

This is my first diesel project, so it is a little frustrating having to wait so long for upgrades. I know in years past GM has given trucks to aftermarket manufacturers ahead of public release so that they could get their aftermarket products in production ahead of a new model year. but those were gas trucks which generate a lot more sales numbers and do not carry the higher cost of a diesel truck. Plus GM's current financial picture probably doesn't warrant much in the "give away" department these days.

Oh well....I guess I need a little more patience. :

 

[torozmaster]

You also have to take into account that they are making the box compatiable with 2 different engines. So they have to work out the bugs for 2 sets of programs. The 06s LLY and LBZ.

 

[MAXMSCL]

I inquired with Edge about a month ago and they told me late this summer for the new product for the lbz......

 

[BMF06]

I spoke with a local vendor the other day on it.
We spoke with a rep. from edge products and i guess they are shooting for june~
Then I said:grd:

 

[Liquid Liability]

I didn't realize that the CPU was shared on both of the engines.

Has anyone been able to figure out how to block the egr and add exhaust without throwing codes?

 

[aziator]

That is what I am waiting on, I can wait for the edge for a few months but i want to ditch the EGR and cat and I can't do it right now...

 

[Wobble]

You also have to take into account that they are making the box compatible with 2 different engines. So they have to work out the bugs for 2 sets of programs. The 06s LLY and LBZ.

Not really, same engine, same ecu's, different power programs according to everything I have read here.

The big issue seems to be whether they can switch programs on the fly.

The down-loaders seem to produce the same or similar power levels for both motors at each level.

 

[torozmaster]

There is some differences- If i read the specs correctly- different compression ratios. Also there is some differences in the engine seeing how there is 50 extra HP.

 

[Wobble]

There is some differences- If i read the specs correctly- different compression ratios. Also there is some differences in the engine seeing how there is 50 extra HP.

This thread is a good read http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59888

Some of the users here did a lot of research.

 

[hdmax]

What is the deal with the Edge system for the LBZ? They had initially said they would be to market in late January, then it was March and now there is no specified release date (that I can find).

Is the CPU programming that much different from the previous years that all of the programming wizards are stumped? I have not been able to see anyone on here who has even been able to block the EGR and add an exhaust to the LBZ without eventually throwing codes.

Edge has always been very bad about missing there projected release dates!

 

[torozmaster]

This thread is a good read http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59888

Some of the users here did a lot of research.

Im well aware of the differences, I own a 06 LLY, and have have a LBZ at work. Im not quite sure what you mean by that last comment, but suffice it to say, I was trying to point out information to the thread starter, not be a part of a pissing contest.

 

[Wobble]

Im well aware of the differences, I own a 06 LLY, and have have a LBZ at work. Im not quite sure what you mean by that last comment, but suffice it to say, I was trying to point out information to the thread starter, not be a part of a pissing contest.

Me either,

I have access to both also. There are no visible differences except for a "D" in the vin code and the door badges. Another user at a dealer has managed to put the 06LBZ programing into an 06LLY ECU.

What differences have you observed?

 

[torozmaster]

The ECUs are the same. They are the new Bosch computers. So they would accept the LBZ program, the question would be how well it ran due to the different compression ratios, and fuel rail pressures. The LBZ runs around 3,000 psi higher. My guess is that running the LBZ program on the LLY, it would be a type of Duramaximizer, fuel rail pressure increase, possibly gaining power that way.

 

[Wobble]

It would seem that you are comparing the LBZ with LLY's built prior to 6/1/05. It is my understanding that all LLY's and LBZ's built after 6/1/05 have the same compression ratio 16.8-1.

GM through their press releases gave the impression that they were different, however it seems that the 06 LLY was a detuned LBZ for the purposes of giving them time to evaluate the 6-speed Allison and or something to brag about for the new model year.

Apparently the part number for a dressed 06 LLY or LBZ motor is the same as is the part # for the ECU

If you read the GM press release here http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67521 you will see that they mention a significantly revised motor

"The 2006 Silverado HD and Sierra HD with the Allison 6-speed automatic transmission will be equipped with a significantly revised 310 horsepower DURAMAX 6600 (LLY) through the third quarter of 2005. It will be replaced in these applications in the fourth quarter of 2005, by the higher output, 360-horsepower DURAMAX (LBZ).

They dont say it's a different motor, in fact further down under the specifications

"2006 DURAMAX 6600 Specifications (LLY, LBZ)

Assembly site: Moraine, Ohio

Applications: Chevy Silverado and GMC Sierra 2500HD, 3500 pickups; Hummer H1, Chevy Express and GMC Savana full-size vans; Chevy and GMC medium-duty trucks

Type: 90º V-8 charge-cooled turbodiesel
Displacement (cu in/ cc): 403 / 6599
Bore x stroke (in x mm): 4.06 x 3.9 / 103 x 99
Block material: cast iron with induction-hardened cylinder liners
Cylinder head material:cast aluminum
Intake manifold:cast aluminum
Exhaust manifolds:cast nodular iron with steel pipe extension
Compression ratio: 16.8:1
Valve configurationverhead valve, four valves per cylinder
Valve lifters:Mechanical roller
Firing order:1 – 2 – 7 – 8 – 4 – 5 – 6 – 3
Fuel system:direct injection diesel with high-pressure common rail"

They make it clear that they are the same with different outputs. The higher fuel rail pressure is common to both and is more related to emissions than output in this case.

 

[Jacack]

just wanted to add that I have had the 5inch kit from MBRP for about 3 weeks and 1400miles and had a check engine light come on for about 5 mins the first day and hasnt come on again.and yes its no cat,full kit from halfway down on the down pipe to the rear,and it sounds great.

Jared
and yes its a LBZ

 

[DURAtotheMAX]

The reason its probably taking Edge so long is because there is no EDU/FICM to work with. The injectors are driven DRIECTLY by the ECM.

See, the 2001-2005 Dmax's had EDU's in addition to the ECM's. The EDU was basically like a big heavy duty switching station, or relay for the injectors. The Injectors operate at high voltage (96v on the LB7, 48v on the 04-05 LLY) so the ECM can NOT control them directly because the ECM only works on 12v. The EDU is a big transformer and bunch of relays. Thats why it has fuel running thru it, to cool the heat generated by the step-up transformers. The ECM sends a signal to the EDU telling it to have each injector do their individual thing, and the EDU is what actually controls the injectors. The EDU is the only thing that can actually open and close the injectors, but its slaved to the ECM. So the ECM sends injector data to teh EDU, and the EDU ups voltage from 12 to 48/96 and sends power to the injectors when the ECM tells it to.

The Edge plugs IN-LINE with the ECM and EDU. It takes the stock signals from the ECM, sucks them into th e Edge box, modifies them with whatever pulse width, duration, timing, etc that it wishes, and sends them back out to the EDU. The EDU just does whatever it is told, so its really listening to the Edge box when it thinks its listening to the ECM.

On the 2006's theres no EDU, so Edge probably is having a hard time engineering something that will work this way, because it will have to control the injectors DIRECTLY after the Edge box, because theres no EDU. Its probably not easy to make the Edge directly control the 12 volt, high amperage injectors with no EDU present to do the "dirty work".

thats JMO, a conclusion that ive drawn myself from thinking about how these engines work and how it would be harder to get an Edge to work with these new EDU-less engines.

--Ben

 

[Liquid Liability]

thanks for the info DuratotheMax, that is the most complete explaination that I have gotten from anyone.

Hopefully they (Edge) will get it figured out soon and we can start spending our $$ with them.

I did find out the MBRP has a new cat-back system that I will be picking up this week so I hope to post some results from that install soon. On another note I hit the dyno from Diesel Perfomance Motorsports this weekend and pulled 556 lb/ft of torque and 294.6 hp in stock condition with the big wheels and tires still on the truck!!! :ro)

 

[DURAtotheMAX]

No problem

Like I said, that may not be *THE* reason, but just from my general knowlege of the trucks, it kinda makes sense that that would be the hold up and whats giving them trouble...

Ben