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Hi guys, been a while since last time on the DP. Just wondering if anyone else has had to replace any injectors yet.

Original concern was a really fine ticking at 1400 to 2100 rpm on the drivers side (and I suspected #6 or #8 injector). Accompanied by some blue (rich) smoke and drop in MPG's

Brought it in and the balance rates were 5.3 and 4.9 (in park) for #5 and #7 injectors. Took about 7 days to get injectors in from Tuktiuktuk on the back of a snowmobile.

Turns out to not be too bad of a job to change them...aside from all the clutter and wiring that has to move first.

Balance rates all look good now...nothing above +1, but still have the ticking I brought it in for.

Thinking about swapping #1 and #3 with #6 and #8 to see if the ticking moves to the other side. What do some of you guys think...worth the hassel? Because if the injector is good (bal rate) but just noisy, GM wont do anything about it.


PS...LLY injectors list $834 (canadian) each....Crazy!
 

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yes

88000km (about 50000 miles) Going to get it out of shop tomorrow. Stopped for a pee on a side road and when I pulled out into traffic and matted it, it sputtered a few times and went into "gimp" mode. Limped it into nearest dealer and #2 injector was at fault.. Warranty covers it but it's just the inconvenience and farting around that upsets me. This all happened 3 hours from home so I have to take a day off work to go get it as dealer was good enought o give me a loaner. What if I had the 5th wheel??
 

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I had a bad one on one of my LLY's when it was new. Have had 4 LLY's now with aprox. 450,000 total miles and no more injecters have been replaced.
 

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Balance rates

Hi guys, been a while since last time on the DP. Just wondering if anyone else has had to replace any injectors yet.

Original concern was a really fine ticking at 1400 to 2100 rpm on the drivers side (and I suspected #6 or #8 injector). Accompanied by some blue (rich) smoke and drop in MPG's

Brought it in and the balance rates were 5.3 and 4.9 (in park) for #5 and #7 injectors. Took about 7 days to get injectors in from Tuktiuktuk on the back of a snowmobile.

Turns out to not be too bad of a job to change them...aside from all the clutter and wiring that has to move first.

Balance rates all look good now...nothing above +1, but still have the ticking I brought it in for.

Thinking about swapping #1 and #3 with #6 and #8 to see if the ticking moves to the other side. What do some of you guys think...worth the hassel? Because if the injector is good (bal rate) but just noisy, GM wont do anything about it.


PS...LLY injectors list $834 (canadian) each....Crazy!
What is the acceptable range for the balance rates on an LLY? Is it checked at idle?
 

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I beleive same as the LB7
IIRC, the highest acceptable rates are 5 in park, and 6 in drive, foot on brake.

Balance rates are only valid at idle.
 

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How many miles on this LLY?
 

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A couple of months ago my father took his 04.5 in for excessive smoke (I'm talking enough to make some of the guys running heavy fueling boxes jealous) and the dealership replaced all eight of the injectors in his vehicle...

Yes you read that right ALL EIGHT injectors were replaced! The dealership service tag quoted a “special policy” for replacing all eight injectors.

The odd thing is none of his injectors read over 3 in park or in gear according to the Predator. My thought was the truck simply needed the latest calibration installed as his truck was exhibiting exactly the symptoms described in the “flash” threads. I'm convinced the shop lacks employees who can read english. I'm not aware of any policy allowing for all eight injectors to be replaced on the LLY, for the LB7 yes but not the LLY.

No skin off his back though, they rotated the tires and changed the oil for him as well which was nice. And his truck is now running good as new, I'm still not sure if the latest calibration was installed or not but he still has plenty of warranty left if the issue happens again.
 

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P.S. Its not that they "arent" covered and its not that the tech misunderstood the special policy. Thats just how the warranty administrator submitted it to GM
 

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Winkel Pontiac-GMC

My flame of the techs is due to their lack of attention to the customer described complaints. The first time the truck went in my father dropped it off describing the issue on his own, I came here and investigated and found the threads on the reflash. The trouble the truck had duplicated the listed symptoms the flash should fix. The truck came back the first time with the #7 (I think) injector replaced and no mention of a reflash.

Not more than a month later the issue returned, this time I armed my father with the “proper lingo” from this forum which should have tipped the service writer/technician off to the reflash being a proper troubleshooting step to take. It failed. This time the truck came back with two injectors replaced, the number 2 and number 7 injectors. Again no mention of a reflash.

The last time the truck was taken to the shop (when all eight injectors were replaced) my dad specifically asked the service writer if the truck could have the latest engine calibration performed in addition to whatever diagnostics the tech performed. When he got the call to pickup the truck he asked if the latest calibration had been performed, the service person who contacted him stated it wasn't listed on the service record and the tech wasn't available to ask.

So the truck was picked up, and we're waiting to see if the symptoms return. My dad is certainly not complaining about the replacement injectors, the free tire rotation or the free oil change, quite the contrary.

And yes I did flame the tech performing the service. In my opinion the technician is discounting the customer described complaint/request and performing his own diagnostics and performing corrective action based upon that. I remember when I used to be ****y (head strong) and do that myself, I know better than any “customer” does I used to think... Well I was wrong, grew up a bit and found out that customer described issues can quite frequently point you to the problem. I think the techs at this shop need to do a bit of that themselves. Could I be wrong, absolutely! I've never been to Duramax diagnostic/repair training, I could be way off my rocker, but the training and experience I have leads me to believe probably not.

... And with that I'll turn off the rant and attempt to un-hijack this thread :)
 

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Sorry, I didnt mean to cause disruption and I apologize. I agree with you on the fact that your described condition and your repeated request of reflashing the ECM was never addressed. With that I can say that the service advisor never mentioned your exact complaint and request.Therefore the vehicle was road tested and the symptom found was diagnosed as presented. Once again I am truly sorry for your poor experience at the dealer where I work.
 

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I'll agree that if the service writer (advisor) did not include the description or request for a specific service the technician cannot be held accountable, and if that is the case then it's I who owe you the apology. Having been on both sides of the “counter” I know the customer to service writer/technician experience can be frustrating at times and quite frequently I know the technician gets to bear the brunt of that frustration.

Ack... I'm having all kinds of “customer service” training flashbacks now... see what ya did ):h

Anyway back on point, the experience was not a poor one and I did not say that. In fact as I noted my father was happy to have the additional services performed, just frustrated that a specific request was not addressed.

Finally I did not mean any ill will toward any one person or dealership by my rant, rather the mentality of some (read not all) technicians.

I think we've officially hijacked this thread btw...
 

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Sorry but i have to pipe in.

Hey all first off- black max your ticking is a normal situation all diesels have that noise and izuzu has spent many a man hour r&d on that noise
and found it to be of no consequence. the main reason it is heard more on the newer engines is that they are so quite. hope that helps.


and second as a gm master diesel tech that works for winkel pontiac side by side with tiresnfuel (also a gm master diesel tech) i can apoligize for your discontent with our dealer and our ever increasing need for advisors that pass on the complaints from customers in the customers words and not just generalized crap. this is one of the biggest hurdles we face everyday. while i agree that there are unfortunatly a lot of techs out there that dont give a damn about customers. BUT i can assure you that myself and my counter part are interested solely in fixing the problems our dmax customers have at this point the dmax is the ONLY vehicles i work on every day and i as well as tiresnfuel take GREAT pride in our work.
having discussed this with tiresnfuel our feel is that we hope you and your father will still use or dealer in faith and we ask that when you or your father have any questions or problems PLEASE by all means ask for myself Mike Robbins or tiresnfuel Kris Keller one of us is always available and will be happy to address your needs on a one on one basis. i hope your dads rig is still working fine. i not please dont hesitate come see us!!!:)
 

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Subject:Service VME - 6.6L LB7 Duramax Diesel Erratic Tick Noise #PI00040 - (06/18/2002)


Models:SERVICE VME


When servicing the vehicle with the VIN you entered, the following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the described symptoms.
A random ticking noise may be heard in some LB7s with the engine running at idle speed and with the coolant warmed to a temperature of 70 degrees Celsius or above. An Irregular metallic ticking/clacking sound like random typing on a mechanical type writer, can be heard at the lower rear of the left front wheel house. Some customers may also hear the noise inside the cab as well. This irregular ticking/clacking sound can be heard between idle and 1500 rpm. Above 1500 rpm the sound goes away, but returns once the engine is operated within the idle and 1500 rpm speed range.
The sound is caused by the relationship created from the engine block, main bearing crank pin, bearing inser, and oil film which generates a vibration that resonates though the block and is heard as a metallic ticking noise. This noise is most audible on vehicles that have engine main bearing tolerances that are closer to the minimum main bearing clearance specification. All Duramax engines have this condition, however some are more audible than others. Tolerances between nonaudible ticking engines and audible ticking engines are differences in clearances measured in microns.
Isuzu advises that they have experienced this condition in other diesel engines they manufactured over the last 20 years. Other manufactures of diesel engines such as Hino, Mitsubishi and Nissan also report similar noises in their engines. The LB7 bearing manufacturer has investigated this noise in the LB7 and state that no reliability or durability concerns are due to this condition.
General Motors Noise Vibration and Harshness group and Isuzu of Japan Engineering have done extensive testing and agree that no reliability or durability of this engine is effected by this issue. GM engineering has run a ticking engine on a 1200 hour dynamometer durability test and has also agreed that the noise condition does not effect reliability or durability of the LB7 engine.
The noise is a normal operating characteristic of this engine, It has no short term or long term detrimental effects on the engine. Do not attempt repairs for this sound.
Please follow this diagnosis process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed. If these steps do not resolve the condition, please contact GM TAC for further diagnostic assistance. This diagnostic approach was developed for the vehicle with the VIN you entered and should not be automatically be used for other vehicles with similar symptoms.

GM bulletins are intended for use by professional technicians, NOT a "do-it-yourselfer". They are written to inform these technicians of conditions that may occur on some vehicles, or to provide information that could assist in the proper service of a vehicle. Properly trained technicians have the equipment, tools, safety instructions, and know-how to do a job properly and safely. If a condition is described, DO NOT assume that the bulletin applies to your vehicle, or that your vehicle will have that condition. See your GM dealer for information on whether your vehicle may benefit from the information.
WE SUPPORT VOLUNTARY TECHNICIAN CERTIFICATION
© Copyright General Motors Corporation. All Rights Reserved.
 

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Discussion Starter #16

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Subject:Service VME - 6.6L LB7 Duramax Diesel Erratic Tick Noise #PI00040 - (06/18/2002)




Models:SERVICE VME


...An Irregular metallic ticking/clacking sound like random typing on a mechanical type writer, can be heard at the lower rear of the left front wheel house. Some customers may also hear the noise inside the cab as well. This irregular ticking/clacking sound can be heard between idle and 1500 rpm. Above 1500 rpm the sound goes away, but returns once the engine is operated within the idle and 1500 rpm speed range.
I have the above tick / clack mostly heard when up beside a building like a drivethru or something. I was never really worried about that one. However, there is a real faint ticking heard starting around 1500 rpm (more pronounced when light acceleration) and will proportionately increase with rpm till about 2200 rpm. Sound alot like shaking 2 dimes together in your hand. Once Pilot Injection switches there is all the other noise and timing associated, but the tick would be too fast to hear it anyway.

Originally thought it was a lifter type noise.

I dunno?
 
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