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Suspension & Steering - 2020+ Discuss OEM & aftermarket suspension, lifts, street suspension, air ride suspension, steering components, etc. Seventh generation....

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Old 01-29-2020, 02:12 PM   #11 (permalink)
Shasta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heymccall View Post
Can you put rear stems at 180°, give or take?
I'll try that this weekend.


Should also note that talked to an independent suspension tech last night about the problem. He installs lifts, etc. He told me that every single Denali 3500 he's worked on has the same problems. He's convinced it has to do with the electronic steering assist system AND the design of the factory wheels in combination.


His theory is the wheels are designed with most of the metal mass near the outside edge which gives it a slightly unbalanced side to side weight distribution. There is also a greater offset than the wheels on the AT, which doesn't seem to have this issue. When there is slight lateral pressure on the wheel - like correcting for road crown, the tire tread then is not uniformly loaded, which causes a vibration. He claims the Crapyears have a very stiff sidewall / tread, and that's why some people find that changing to a "softer" tire like Michelin LTXs get improvement.

The electronic assisted steering system detects this vibration, and essentially gets "lost" on whether to apply assist or not. This leads to the system "pulsing" pressure into the steering box, which is felt by the driver. This makes sense to me. The steering wheel oscillation feels no different at 60 or 80, and is a uniform frequency. It also feels slightly like when the lane departure system kicks in on my Traverse. I can feel a very slight vibration just before the steering wheel is forcibly turned to correct lane position.

He has an AT coming in that he will swap wheels with mine, and see if there's a difference. If so, that would give credence to the wheels being part of the problem. His opinion is that until GM figures out a different programming of the electronic assist system, the shake will continue to be present, even if the wheels and tires are changed.


Possibly that's why GM told me not to replace the tires, as that isn't the real fix... all just a theory though.

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Old 02-02-2020, 06:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
Shasta
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Tried rotating one of the rear tires so the valve stems are 180 to each other. No difference at all.

I pulled the fuse for the electronic steering control and viola - the shake is completely gone, and I actually like the steering feel much better. But this seems to validate what the suspension guy told me that it is a problem with the ESC system. Its either calibration or some hardware problem.

Not sure what to do now, other than leave the fuse out and clear the warning message every key cycle.

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2003 GMC 2500 Ext Cab 4X4. Great truck, should have kept it instead of buying the lemon...

2006 GMC 3500 CC 4X4 Steel Grey, Pewter Leather, Bone Stock - GONE TO LEMON LAND!!

2008 GMC LMM 3500 CC 4X4 Deep Blue Metallic - everything except NAV Thanks GM. (Hope all the ground wires are tight on this one!!) Great truck but time to move up.

2012 Chevrolet LML 3500 CC 4X4 Blue Granite LTZ

2020 GMC Denali 3500. "you can have any color you want, as long as it's white"
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Old 02-02-2020, 06:55 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta View Post
Tried rotating one of the rear tires so the valve stems are 180 to each other. No difference at all.

I pulled the fuse for the electronic steering control and viola - the shake is completely gone, and I actually like the steering feel much better. But this seems to validate what the suspension guy told me that it is a problem with the ESC system. Its either calibration or some hardware problem.

Not sure what to do now, other than leave the fuse out and clear the warning message every key cycle.
Now that you found something, take it to the Dealer and show them so they can take it up with GM and get a cure going on the issue
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Old 02-03-2020, 09:01 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Not sure what to do now, other than leave the fuse out and clear the warning message every key cycle.
Just curious what warning message are you getting?
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Old 02-04-2020, 10:10 PM   #15 (permalink)
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He will have a service steering message when you remove power from ves module. This makes the tbar really soft so it dampens any type of tire or road induced vibration.

It unfortunately does not help the dealer figure out what component(s) have an issue or if the dealer did not follow the service bulletin properly.

Backing off the lash adjustment on the steering gear is properly worth trying. I would mark the adjuster position before moving it. Very small movements go a long way.
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Old 02-05-2020, 03:41 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MTU alum View Post
He will have a service steering message when you remove power from ves module. This makes the tbar really soft so it dampens any type of tire or road induced vibration.

It unfortunately does not help the dealer figure out what component(s) have an issue or if the dealer did not follow the service bulletin properly.

Backing off the lash adjustment on the steering gear is properly worth trying. I would mark the adjuster position before moving it. Very small movements go a long way.
That is great information MTU, and I appreciate you reaching out to me here and other venues. You have been way more help than anyone from GM so far. If you do work for GM realize the following rant is NOT directed to you, but to GM as a corporation.

If backing off the lash adjustment is a path towards a fix, then why is GM not communicating this to the dealers. My dealer has been told by GM not to attempt further repairs as they will not get paid for the warranty work. I'm not going to pay them to try this, and the dealer won't anyway because they are not going to be held liable if this messes anything up. Frankly neither I, nor the dealer are in the business of replacing the GM engineering group that should be figuring this out, and then giving direction to the dealer.

My real frustration is over the last five months since I bought this truck, I have been fighting this issue. I have elevated this to the supposed highest level of GMC customer support, who has basically told me this isn't fixable, and live with it. In response to a twitter DM to the official GMC account, I was told to just lemon law the truck - even including a link to do that. Is that what GM has come to?

I, like most everyone else, will be writing a huge check for the next 5 years or so to pay for my truck. To see GM basically turn their back on customers is just not right.

Ok rant over...
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2003 GMC 2500 Ext Cab 4X4. Great truck, should have kept it instead of buying the lemon...

2006 GMC 3500 CC 4X4 Steel Grey, Pewter Leather, Bone Stock - GONE TO LEMON LAND!!

2008 GMC LMM 3500 CC 4X4 Deep Blue Metallic - everything except NAV Thanks GM. (Hope all the ground wires are tight on this one!!) Great truck but time to move up.

2012 Chevrolet LML 3500 CC 4X4 Blue Granite LTZ

2020 GMC Denali 3500. "you can have any color you want, as long as it's white"

Last edited by Shasta; 02-05-2020 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:09 PM   #17 (permalink)
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What is the "tbar"?
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Old 02-06-2020, 10:49 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shasta View Post
I have elevated this to the supposed highest level of GMC customer support, who has basically told me this isn't fixable, and live with it. In response to a twitter DM to the official GMC account, I was told to just lemon law the truck - even including a link to do that.
Last vehicle we bought the head lights would flicker at night and we were told there was no fix. They couldn’t duplicate it after having it for three weeks so we put a GoPro on the dash to capture it. They did even want to look at it and within 3 months we had a new vehicle. Year newer 15 to 16 and they paid all taxes, transfer et... no cost.
You didn’t pay for something that doesn’t work. That’s what I reminded them off.

Last edited by Rvn4me; 02-06-2020 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 02-06-2020, 01:09 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rvn4me View Post
...within 3 months we had a new vehicle. Year newer 15 to 16 and they paid all taxes, transfer et... no cost.
You didn’t pay for something that doesn’t work. That’s what I reminded them off.

I hoping it doesn't come to that. I lemon lawed a truck back in 2006 - it took months for GM to respond, and by the time they did I ended up waiting for another 8 months for the new truck because of the 2007.5 - 2008 transition. I just can't go that long again without a truck - that might have the exact same issue since so many 2020 3500 Denalis seem to have it now.


But it's a real possibility that I do go down that road because even GM is telling me to do that... which is pretty sad.
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2003 GMC 2500 Ext Cab 4X4. Great truck, should have kept it instead of buying the lemon...

2006 GMC 3500 CC 4X4 Steel Grey, Pewter Leather, Bone Stock - GONE TO LEMON LAND!!

2008 GMC LMM 3500 CC 4X4 Deep Blue Metallic - everything except NAV Thanks GM. (Hope all the ground wires are tight on this one!!) Great truck but time to move up.

2012 Chevrolet LML 3500 CC 4X4 Blue Granite LTZ

2020 GMC Denali 3500. "you can have any color you want, as long as it's white"
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Old 02-06-2020, 10:46 PM   #20 (permalink)
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The steering guys probably don't want dealers to play with lash adjustment in fear of screwing it up and having to replace the gear. There is a special tool that dealer needs to do the adjustment and not sure all dealers have it.

Did we confirm the dealer cleared the offsets/adapts after they reprogrammed the steering module? I heard some dealers have skipped this step.

I just wish I could get my hands on this truck for a couple days to figure what is going on. We have never seen a truck where the service bulletin does not fix it.

#iworkforGM

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