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Maintenance & Fluids Discuss products, techniques, intervals, and fluids for maintaining your GM truck including oil and oil additives, fuel and fuel additives, alternative fuels (Bio-D, SVO, WVO), filters, grease, and maintenance specific tools.

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Old 04-09-2015, 05:43 AM   #71 (permalink)
Duraclaker
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I'm a LEO here in Ohio. In my area, I've never heard of anyone getting dipped. Also, about the only agency who would do it would be OSHP.

As far as legality goes, I'd treat it like any other contraband that you might have in your car. You can have red diesel, illegal drugs, nuclear bombs, stolen guns, etc inside your vehicle, but unless I had probable cause to search, I would have no authority to do so.

In other words, I would have to have a reason to believe you had red diesel before I could even begin to think about a search.

There are some other legal things regarding searches that I can go into but I won't unless asked. But simply put, for many vehicle search scenarios, a search warrant is NOT required here in Ohio. Probably similar in most states since we are all covered by the 4th amendment.

* The above may or may not apply to weigh stations or commercial motor vehicle laws. I'm not a trooper and don't have that kind of training.

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Old 04-09-2015, 08:24 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Unless I haven't gotten the whole story, there have been a few dipped in my neck of the woods (they were small construction companies, etc.). Supposedly they had no "reason" to check, but my thinking is that the state was given a "hint"... lol

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Old 04-10-2015, 11:27 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Getting to be a long thread!!!
Here they sometimes check pick-ups with slip tanks in them. Slip tanks have purple fuel for the operators construction equipment and the law thinks the driver may have put some purple fuel in his pick-up. Pick-ups with welders in the back have been checked. Folks coming out of the bush have been checked because construction camps only have bulk purple fuel for camp/construction equipment use. Getting caught is not bad until they seize the vehicle for two weeks.
Or going to the next province where the law says clear diesel in construction equipment, slip tanks, and etc., then that provincial law takes a second look.
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Old 04-10-2015, 02:40 PM   #74 (permalink)
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I work with a guy (FF, EMS, dispatcher) who runs nothing but red fuel in his truck from his farm. He knows better and would likely lose his job in addition to any criminal fines/punishments.

The way he talks it is worth it to him because he gets the fuel at such a discounted rate...

Saving $20 a tank is not worth several thousand in fines and the loss of a 40k/yr job in my opinion lol.
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Old 04-11-2015, 03:48 PM   #75 (permalink)
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I know some of the same Dura- would take A LOT of tanks to break even! Not saying that I haven't put 5 gallons in while at the farm to get me into town when I was on fumes from pulling wagons, etc., but still wouldn't make it a habit.
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Old 05-11-2015, 05:59 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Granted its been a few years, but a neighbor had his pickup parked in his field, trooper pulled in "dipped" (as in the clear straw mentioned in earlier post) his tank and was fined... I also was working for a farmer harvesting, was pulled over to check weight, and truck tank was dipped, truck was just purchased less than 2 weeks earlier, thank goodness previous owner didn't run red!
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Old 05-17-2016, 07:05 PM   #77 (permalink)
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cheap fuel

Quote:
Originally Posted by PrivatePilot View Post
With fuel prices once again skyrocketing a question we are seeing pop up in many forums here is "Can I run red dye fuel in my truck"?

Many here have probably noticed the "Dyed Diesel" or "Offroad Diesel" pumps at some fuel stations or truck stops. The temptation is there to fuel up your pickup with the cheap fuel from these pumps.

However, are you aware of the ramifications? If the answer to this question is not entirely clear to you, continue reading. This is a several part question, requiring several answers.

"Can I burn red dyed diesel in my pickup truck without hurting it?".

Generally, the answer is yes. Typically "Red Dye" diesel is nothing more than regular USLD with a red dye added. Contrary to many old tales of the dye causing problems with engines, it's nothing more than myth - your engine couldn't care less if the fuel was dyed pink or purple, it'll still burn it.

In years passed (since the introduction of ULSD) reportedly SOME red-dye diesel was actually still LSD (Low Sulphur Diesel), not USLD (Ultra Low Sulphur Diesel). Trying to utilize LSD in newer trucks that specially require ULSD to run properly could present problems and possibly damage emissions equipment.

That said, since 2007 most diesel pumped at any station in the USA or Canada is ULSD, regardless if it's on-road (clear) diesel, or off-road (dyed) diesel. By December 1, 2010, all highway diesel fuel was mandated by law to be ULSD. Non-road diesel fuel was required to move to 500 ppm sulfur in 2007, and further to ULSD in 2010.

So, LSD is all but unheard of now, so red-dye or not, there's a virtually 100% chance that you are getting ULSD, and your engine will be just fine with it.

So.....

"Why is red dye diesel so much less expensive than regular diesel?"

Because red-dye diesel is designed exclusively for non-taxed off-road or commercial equipment (such as a lawn tractor, bobcat, or generator) usage. The normal taxes that are part of "regular" diesel are excluded on dyed "off road" diesel fuel, hence the lower cost.

What is "Off road" mean?

If you have a diesel generator you are not obligated to pay road-taxes on the fuel it burns, so you burn red-dye diesel. If you have a tractor on a farm that is used exclusively for off-road use, again, you are fine using red-dye diesel. If you have an UNLICENSED pickup truck that is used solely for off-road use, then you can even run red dyed diesel in the pickup truck and be entirely legal.

"Ok, but I have a LICENCED pickup truck, why can't I burn red-dye diesel?

Simple answer - because red dye diesel does not have road-taxes as part of it's cost, using it on-road is considered tax evasion. For most here, those two words are enough to strike fear into your hearts, and the decision becomes clear - DON'T RISK IT.

Don't think you will ever get caught? Sure, your luck may last years, but the government (and the people that enforce the laws on behalf of the government) aren't stupid - the red-dye pumps are watched, and random vehicle inspections are not unheard of. To the contrary, with more and more people taking the risk of burning red-dye on road, they are becoming quite frequent in many areas.

Get caught and the fines typically start at about $1000. For example, here in Ontario (Canada) the law reads as follows:



Picking a random US state (Montana), here's the law:



Most laws are very similar with the financial penalties being higher in some, and lower in others, but in all situations it's considered a serious offence and can open a huge legal can of worms, aside from the fine itself.

Ask yourself if it's worth saving a few dollars per tank for the worry of being caught and penalized.

"I'm going to use my pickup truck off-road exclusively for a month for work, but then put it back on road - can I use dyed diesel for that one month?

In almost all jurisdictions the law uses the word "Licensed" to either allow or disallow off-road (dyed) fuel use. If, during that one month (or however long it may be) you COMPLETELY remove all licensing from the pickup truck then, technically, yes, you can use dyed fuel in your pickup truck.

Just yanking off your licence plates doesn't count, either - you will have to visit your local DMV and remove all traces of the vehicle being licensed whatsoever.

However, at the conclusion of that time period, when you re-licence the truck you will have to return to regular on-road (clear) diesel, and it would be very wise to ensure ALL traces of red-dye fuel is removed from the fuel system. Even a few gallons of red-dyed diesel can contaminate a tank full of clear diesel, and the law doesn't care how faint the dye is, if it's there, you're screwed.

Basically, you'd have to switch back to clear diesel at least 4 to 5 FULL tankfulls of fuel before you plan on placing the truck back to on-road service again in order to fully flush the fuel tank and fuel system of all the red dye, at which point you would be legal to re-licence your truck and place it back in "on road" service again.

Ultimately, if all this hassle is worth the effort and time is up to you. If you are talking a LOT of off-road mileage over a long period of time (6 months or more) then it may be worthwhile, but for a month or two, it's unlikely to be financially beneficial.

"Does the dye leave permanent traces in my fuel system, dying metal parts and leaving telltale signals that can't be removed?"

Again, this is mostly unfounded rumor. The dye does not "sink into" metals and leave any permanent traces behind once flushed out with clear diesel. The only exception may be fuel filters where the red dye can stain the filter elements and leave traces of red-dye usage, but a simple filter change will remedy any concerns there.

"So, how would they ever know? Once the fuel is in my tank they can't see it!"

Roadside enforcement of diesel fuel typically involves the officer taking a "dip" of your tank. They will lower a device down the filler neck and remove a sample of the fuel that's actually in your tank to check for dye. It's quick, and very effective.

"Can't I just refuse a roadside fuel test if I get pulled over?"

Sure, but many jurisdictions consider a refusal to test as a dire offence, sometimes equaling the worst-case-scenario fine that would otherwise result from several failed tests. You'll receive a signifigant fine and possibly even a summons to appear in court and explain yourself. In some areas your vehicle could be seized. Even if you decide to eat the costs and hassle of this, you'll find yourself on a very short list of people for future monitoring by law enforcement, so you're only inviting future problems.

"I have a large tank in my bed for fueling my equipment in the field - Bobcats, Generators, etc. I have red dye in there - is that OK?

Sure, as long as none of it ever finds it's way into the tank of your pickup truck itself, then it's no problem. Take note, however, that trucks with large transfer tanks on them are prime suspects to be pulled over by law enforcement for dye checks as the law knows that the temptation to pump some of that "cheap" diesel into your own truck is strong!

"I have a second tank with dyed diesel in it that's secretly plumbed into my trucks fuel system..they'll never figure it out!"

Yeah, they will. Law enforcement has seen ALL the tricks. Trying to secretly plumb in a second tank containing red dye so that you can flip a transfer switch and start burning red dye (while still containing clear diesel in your primary tank) is a neat trick, but it won't work - they're wise to these sorts of tactics and if the enforcement officers WILL look for secret plumbing and sneaky hookups.

.....so, with this information in hand, make your own decisions.

If tempting fate is worth it to you to save a few bucks at every fill up for your licensed on-road pickup truck, you have the information you now seek to make your own decisions.

If you have a legitimate and legal use for wanting to burn red-dyed diesel in your pickup truck, you can feel safe doing so.

If you didn't realize you could burn red-dyed diesel in your legitimate off road equipment like tractors, bobcats, generators, and the such...well, you've saved yourself some money!

The staff, ownership, and operators of Dieselplace.com in no way condone the illegal use of (untaxed) red-dye diesel for on-road (taxed) usage. Do so at your own peril and risk.

This FAQ will be updated as information comes to light that may be important to it's content. Please feel free to follow-up with a response if warranted.

Thanks
Mark
Dieselplace.com Staff
I got my CDL A at 16 w/ my best friend cause his family owned a moving company, and he and I work summers. We ended up buy a kenworth (rent then buy) and we (really me) almost always used untaxed fuel or #2 heating oil (just give the guy a 12 pack). We had one set up w/ the fuel under the sleeper section w/ lines to the engine. The other I got an 80 gal tank w/ a pipe 8-10 inch into the tank at angle then made a fake fuel zone so when the dumb cops used a light or dip it was normal, while all the time running on untaxed fuel. The other was I put mesh "filter? in side, so it took a cop 50 min to finally get to the fake "real" fuel, he was so pisssed off. I hate cops,(b/c i grew up in baltimore, and one time I went to watch a game and 3 black and 1 white cop pulled up and said I was not allowed to have black friends or be there, they pulled me out stripped me in the middle of the street thinking I was a druggy and while I was half naked search my car b/c I was white. I ask for their badge # and names and their cheif they did not do any of what I asked. Finally they let me go with a ticket saying that they saw me russle and that is why they search me. I went to the ACLU and got the white Ahole fired and the other 2 suspended. Everyone in baltimore knows the worst gang is the baltimore city police, cause they break more laws then you would think possible. TO SERVE AND PROTECT BS!!!! they have a gun a car a badge and an ero like they are better then you. WE also blocked the gps units so they did know we were driving none stop. I mean before them, we had 3 log books so when we did pull into weight stations we looked legal. I think thats all...oh wait you can use activated charcoal to filter the read out. we did it for 7 years until I got my MBS in chemistry and physics (I teach now) he got his CPA and IT degree, so we no longer do that, yet we knew some people in canada that would sell up untaxed undyed fuel at the plant, and would bring back 5000 to 10000 liter each time and sell it to the other drivers. anyway take it light....--KB
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Old 05-18-2016, 07:32 AM   #78 (permalink)
Tom S.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kb000111 View Post
I got my CDL A at 16 w/ my best friend cause his family owned a moving company, and he and I work summers. We ended up buy a kenworth (rent then buy) and we (really me) almost always used untaxed fuel or #2 heating oil (just give the guy a 12 pack). We had one set up w/ the fuel under the sleeper section w/ lines to the engine. The other I got an 80 gal tank w/ a pipe 8-10 inch into the tank at angle then made a fake fuel zone so when the dumb cops used a light or dip it was normal, while all the time running on untaxed fuel. The other was I put mesh "filter? in side, so it took a cop 50 min to finally get to the fake "real" fuel, he was so pisssed off. I hate cops,(b/c i grew up in baltimore, and one time I went to watch a game and 3 black and 1 white cop pulled up and said I was not allowed to have black friends or be there, they pulled me out stripped me in the middle of the street thinking I was a druggy and while I was half naked search my car b/c I was white. I ask for their badge # and names and their cheif they did not do any of what I asked. Finally they let me go with a ticket saying that they saw me russle and that is why they search me. I went to the ACLU and got the white Ahole fired and the other 2 suspended. Everyone in baltimore knows the worst gang is the baltimore city police, cause they break more laws then you would think possible. TO SERVE AND PROTECT BS!!!! they have a gun a car a badge and an ero like they are better then you. WE also blocked the gps units so they did know we were driving none stop. I mean before them, we had 3 log books so when we did pull into weight stations we looked legal. I think thats all...oh wait you can use activated charcoal to filter the read out. we did it for 7 years until I got my MBS in chemistry and physics (I teach now) he got his CPA and IT degree, so we no longer do that, yet we knew some people in canada that would sell up untaxed undyed fuel at the plant, and would bring back 5000 to 10000 liter each time and sell it to the other drivers. anyway take it light....--KB
I almost always greet new members by saying welcome to the forum. In fact, you are the first exception to that practice. Taken as a whole, your post is a very thinly disguised rant against laws and those whose job it is to uphold them. The intent of this thread is to inform members of difference between diesel fuels and their uses, plus the possible consequences of using untaxed fuel. It is not meant to be a platform to encourage people to break any laws, nor to complain about a police incident that had nothing to do with off road fuel. While we welcome your wisdom on the use of off road fuel, we will not allow this thread to become a platform for other agendas.

Having said that, Welcome to the forum.
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Old 05-19-2016, 01:45 PM   #79 (permalink)
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No one has brought up the issue of Kerosene vs diesel.....

A cheap farmer here bought "clear Kerosene" at $1.00 a gallon in the last two years..... granted, he bought a "truck load"... not sure if that's a tanker or a tanker and a pup. Said something about trying it in their diesel tractors.... he and his brother were gonna split the load....

And this was "untaxed" Kerosene....being a farmer, no sales tax either (this state has a program...)

Just throwing that out....

History shows that people always try to "stick it to the MAN" (man being Govt)....

Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread post....
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Old 05-19-2016, 05:27 PM   #80 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanBoy View Post
No one has brought up the issue of Kerosene vs diesel.....

A cheap farmer here bought "clear Kerosene" at $1.00 a gallon in the last two years..... granted, he bought a "truck load"... not sure if that's a tanker or a tanker and a pup. Said something about trying it in their diesel tractors.... he and his brother were gonna split the load....

And this was "untaxed" Kerosene....being a farmer, no sales tax either (this state has a program...)

Just throwing that out....

History shows that people always try to "stick it to the MAN" (man being Govt)....

Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread post....
GM warns against using Kerosene or #1 diesel because it has way worse lubricity than #2 and that alone is a major reason to not use it.

And it does have less energy content (BTU/gal) than #2.

How #1 or Kerosene would work in other diesels I have no idea, but the low lubricity would worry me.

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