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Old 03-12-2018, 07:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Advice on Towing a Fifth Wheel Toy Hauler

I am looking at towing a 5er which has a dry weight of 10,258 LBS. According to my manual and data plate information my max tow weight is 13,700. My tow vehicle weighs 10,000 PDS. My GCWR is 25,300. The GVWR is 14,500. Vertical Tow Weight Rating (VTWR) is 3,425. I would not be loading out the trailer with anymore than 13,700 PDS. I haven't bought the toy hauler as of yet. I would like to get the forums advice to make sure that I've done my homework right before i actually make the purchase. The UVW of the 5er (curb weight) is 10,258. The toy is a HD Ultra Classic which weighs 900+. About 500 pounds of cargo weight will go in the trailer. It has a 100 gallon fresh water tank (800 LBS) for boon-docking. I won't be dragging that weight around except for when i'm boon-docking on public land or without water sources. The details of my truck, hitch and future trailer are in my signature block. If I buy the trailer based on the feedback which I get from this site I will be using the B&W hitch (found on their web site) chart/worksheet for determining my tow vehicle and trailer's actual weight using a public scale. B&W's web site has a great chart for all types of tow vehicles (2010 and up) and for all types of trailers. Thanks for helping out.

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2018 Silverado 3500HD CC Long Bed 4X4 LTZ
6.6L Duramax Turbo Diesel, Allison Transmission, 3.73 Ratio Axel
OEM (Curt) Gooseneck Towing Package
Installed B&W RVK3700 Companion Fifth Wheel Hitch w/B&W Graphite 10" lube plate
Low Profile Single Lid Tool Box, Flat Black (USW)
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Towing: 2018 forest River-Vengeance Super Sport 5er, Rogue Platinum Package Toy Hauler 38'L, Dry weight 10,533 LBS.
TRADED IN: 2017 Silverado 2500HD DC Long Bed 4X4 LTZ, Z71
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Old 03-12-2018, 09:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
Ron Nielson
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My opinion is that your existing truck is not enough for your toy hauler. You need to be in the 1 ton class, preferably a dually, or larger. My trailer is often in the 12K range and I have done LOTS of mods to my truck in an attempt to get it to handle my weight. I would have been much better off with a 1 ton to start with. Like many, I got the truck before the trailer. Should have done it the other way around - trailer first. Live and learn.

Whichever fifth wheel you purchase, your B&W hitch is a great choice. Just make sure your use a plastic 'lube plate' on the pin.

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Old 03-13-2018, 12:07 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I'll second what Ron said. You will be overweight easily. Towing it, yes the truck probably can for short distances. The issue becomes can it safely stop with It? I'd suggest a 3500. If you are looking at long distance or lots of highway towing, consider dual rear wheels for better stability.

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Old 03-13-2018, 12:33 AM   #4 (permalink)
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confused. you say your TV has a weight of 10,000 and GVWR of 14,500 but the sig say 2500HD. A 2500HD has a GVWR of 10,000 and and empty weight around 7000=7400 depending on configuration.

I agree with the others. you will be overweight. First, by the time you put batteries, propane, food and other stuff in the toyhauler you will likely be adding closer to 1000 lbs.

pin weight alone may put you over GVWR of the truck.

Heck, I tow a 9,000lb bumper pull with my 2500HD and with the trailer hooked up, the bed full of camping stuff and a few passengers I go over the scales at 9600-10,000 lbs for the truck alone. I'm pushing the GVWR of the truck with a bumper pull. and a 5'r has 25% or so pin weight instead of 15% for a bumper pull.
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Old 03-13-2018, 12:57 AM   #5 (permalink)
snowman22
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This is a tough one..

Can it, yes.
Should it, debatable at best, plenty of people do, but people also jump off bridges.

The only thing you could do differently is get a dual rear wheel truck for added stability. There isn't any difference between a 2500 and 3500 that couldn't be overcome with a set of air bags. The brakes are the same, the frame is the same, the torsions are the same, gearing is the same, it's literally only a leaf pack that changes the set up.
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Old 03-13-2018, 05:02 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman22 View Post
This is a tough one..

Can it, yes.
Should it, debatable at best, plenty of people do, but people also jump off bridges.

The only thing you could do differently is get a dual rear wheel truck for added stability. There isn't any difference between a 2500 and 3500 that couldn't be overcome with a set of air bags. The brakes are the same, the frame is the same, the torsions are the same, gearing is the same, it's literally only a leaf pack that changes the set up.
what he said. Just be careful ... best I can tell it looks like you are on the wrong side of the "overloaded" line and that can be a dangerous place
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
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ktmrfs you're right about the dry weight and the 10,000 GVWR for the 2500HD. I was using the term GVWR, which the B&W worksheet (for my truck) was using, but they were using the GVWR as the weight for the truck on the scale and the trailer (hooked up) off the scales. The worksheet showed that weight on the scale should be less than the 14,500 (GVWR). Probably the wrong terminology for B&W to use. It's confusing. I went to the scale this AM and weighed just the truck with a full tank of fuel, 2 pax and a tool box in the bed of truck. The scale ticket said 8400. So according to that figure I only have 1600 pounds left till I reach my 10,000 GVWR. Here is where I get confused with these weights. Is that weight (10,000-8400=1600) what I could feasibly put in the bed of the truck if I was hauling some dirt/mulch or motorcycle or does it also pertain to what the weight a fifth wheel trailer would add to it? The chevy duramax manual gives me a weight of 13,700 max tow weight and if 25% of that number is 3,425 for a fifth wheel/gooseneck vertical tow weight. Based on that information that the manual provides, the GVWR (GVWR) is far exceeded by the vertical tow weight of possible 25%. I fully understand and agree to what everyone has advised me about the truck not being enough to get the job done safely. BTW Ron Nielson, I thought I had choose my trailer beforehand (Wells Cargo CVG28) the truck, but they were taking so long to build it that I fired them and went the fifth wheel route. I had planned on just installing a Vertilift bed (day bed) and some living amenities. Didn't work out. Oh well. I appreciate the feedback from everyone and if anyone has anything else to add to this thread...by all means.
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2018 Silverado 3500HD CC Long Bed 4X4 LTZ
6.6L Duramax Turbo Diesel, Allison Transmission, 3.73 Ratio Axel
OEM (Curt) Gooseneck Towing Package
Installed B&W RVK3700 Companion Fifth Wheel Hitch w/B&W Graphite 10" lube plate
Low Profile Single Lid Tool Box, Flat Black (USW)
Grill Cover for Transmission Cooler
WeatherTec Floor Mats All Around
Towing: 2018 forest River-Vengeance Super Sport 5er, Rogue Platinum Package Toy Hauler 38'L, Dry weight 10,533 LBS.
TRADED IN: 2017 Silverado 2500HD DC Long Bed 4X4 LTZ, Z71
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Old 03-13-2018, 01:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
Ron Nielson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman22 View Post
The brakes are the same, the frame is the same, the torsions are the same, gearing is the same, it's literally only a leaf pack that changes the set up.
And tires and wheels may be different also, at least on my 2008 model.

on 2500: tires 245X75x16 capy 3042 lbs; 6 1/2" wheel width
on 3500: tires 265X75X16 capy 3415 lbs: 7" wheel width

That means that the 2500 can have 6084 lbs on rear axle vs 3500 having 6830 lbs. 746 lbs more on 3500.

So for other years, look at the tire capacities to see if there is a difference for your model. There very well may not be a difference.
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Old 03-13-2018, 06:11 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDGlide52 View Post
I am looking at towing a 5er which has a dry weight of 10,258 LBS. According to my manual and data plate information my max tow weight is 13,700. My tow vehicle weighs 10,000 PDS. My GCWR is 25,300. The GVWR is 14,500. Vertical Tow Weight Rating (VTWR) is 3,425. I would not be loading out the trailer with anymore than 13,700 PDS. I haven't bought the toy hauler as of yet. I would like to get the forums advice to make sure that I've done my homework right before i actually make the purchase. The UVW of the 5er (curb weight) is 10,258. The toy is a HD Ultra Classic which weighs 900+. About 500 pounds of cargo weight will go in the trailer. It has a 100 gallon fresh water tank (800 LBS) for boon-docking. I won't be dragging that weight around except for when i'm boon-docking on public land or without water sources. The details of my truck, hitch and future trailer are in my signature block. If I buy the trailer based on the feedback which I get from this site I will be using the B&W hitch (found on their web site) chart/worksheet for determining my tow vehicle and trailer's actual weight using a public scale. B&W's web site has a great chart for all types of tow vehicles (2010 and up) and for all types of trailers. Thanks for helping out.
Correction on the OP. The 10,000 pound rating is the GVWR of vehicle NOT the vehicle's weight. The 14,500 pounds is the limit when the TV and trailer are hooked up and the truck only is on scale. B&Ws worksheet chart labels this truck trailer configuration as GVWR.??? When I plugged my vehicle's general information (no weights) into the their towing these are the numbers which auto filled into the first page of the worksheet.
25,300 GCWR
14,500 GVWR (TV/trailer hooked up with only TV on scale)
13,700 Max Tow Rating
3,425 Vertical Towing Weight Rating
The second page showed (pictures) the different ways that you need to weigh truck and trailer etc.
This is the link for towing help at B&W:
B&W Trailer Hitches | Fifth Wheel Tow Ratings |
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2018 Silverado 3500HD CC Long Bed 4X4 LTZ
6.6L Duramax Turbo Diesel, Allison Transmission, 3.73 Ratio Axel
OEM (Curt) Gooseneck Towing Package
Installed B&W RVK3700 Companion Fifth Wheel Hitch w/B&W Graphite 10" lube plate
Low Profile Single Lid Tool Box, Flat Black (USW)
Grill Cover for Transmission Cooler
WeatherTec Floor Mats All Around
Towing: 2018 forest River-Vengeance Super Sport 5er, Rogue Platinum Package Toy Hauler 38'L, Dry weight 10,533 LBS.
TRADED IN: 2017 Silverado 2500HD DC Long Bed 4X4 LTZ, Z71
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Old 03-14-2018, 12:29 AM   #10 (permalink)
HvyHauler
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Buy a Kodiak. Problem solved!

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