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Old 05-14-2015, 01:11 PM   #21 (permalink)
turnpike
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robmagur View Post
so should i just go with a bumper pull instead of a gooseneck or 5th? the tow capacity is 12k it does have a class 4 hitch and i can get a weight distributions at 12k.
Short answer "NO"..... not necessarily.

See my picture. That is a 38 footer hitched up. 13,800 trailer gross on the placard. Trailer axles are 6,000 each, and the pin weight should be 1800 lbs. I never load the trailer axle to the 12,000 total. But filling the front closet and the basement can over load the pin.

The limiting factor for me is the truck rear axle. Tough to keep the pin weight under 2000, so that when the trailer is on the truck the rear axle is under 6000 limit.

Empty (what ever weight that is), that trailer pulls beautiful!!!

Loaded up rigged and ready, I know it is heavy and drive accordingly. I weight every chance I get if I see an open highway scale. The gross combination on mine is usually about 21,500, so the axles are the limiting factors.

If your truck has the fifth wheel, ask the dealer to let you weight the truck and trailer. Then think about where you are going to add the 2000 - 3000 of supplies and stay under the limits. Don't go by the "cargo carrying capacity" ( CC) on the placards. Go by and think about the ACTUAL WEIGHTS when loaded. You will accumulate junk in both the truck and the trailer that changes the CC. So weight the rig.

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Traded off-'05 Chev, 2500HD, CC, SB, Duramax, Allison, 4WD, bought new April '05, sold at 179,400 miles, LBZ mouthpeice, Blocker Plate & Unplugged EGR, Air Box cut out, lost the cat, 52 US Gal (196 Litre) Titan Fuel Tank, SuperChips tuner reset to stock and retained, AirLift air bags, BrakeSmart Trailer Brake controller, PaceEdwards cover-replaced 2013, DSP Fifth Hitch, JVC KW-NT1 headunit, kept the"AutoEnginuity" scanner.

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Last edited by turnpike; 05-14-2015 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 05-14-2015, 01:54 PM   #22 (permalink)
terryk
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I bought a Sherline scale so I could measure the pin as I shuffled things around. They are accurate enough for the job. I have both the 2000 and 5000lb gauges. I found that weight on the back of the trailer doesn't translate to a direct drop in the pin weight nor does front basement weight add directly to the pin but most of it does. Depending on the trailer the tanks could be anywhere and how they impact the pin is a guess.

The scale takes the guessing out.

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Old 05-14-2015, 03:26 PM   #23 (permalink)
ktmrfs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terryk View Post
The bottom line is that as big as these trucks are, the ratings, the HD designation and people's expectations, the 2500HD trucks don't have all that much capacity when it comes to 5th wheels. It's certainly gotten better over the last couple of years but unless you want to go with a small 5th wheel, the 2500HD is probably too small. I had to go to a 3500 SRW to get the additional CC I needed for my 5th wheel and I am right at that CC limit. If a person decides to go over the ratings then there is no limit. If it doesn't break it must be fine.
yup, trucks GVWR keeps going up, but so does empty weight and trailer weights. My 04.5 duramax has a 9200GVWR and 7200 empty= 2000 for cargo.

My 2015 denali, same exact body style has 10,000 GWVR. Did I gain 800lbs in cargo capacity?? NOPE!!! I gained about 200lbs. New truck weights 7800 empty, which leaves me with only 200lbs more CC. granted the Denali does have more "stuff", but I suspect the new chassis is also heavier.

IMHO the 3/4 ton diesels are capable of towing some 5thwheels and staying within GVWR if your careful. But many are going to put you over GVWR. Especially when you have a crew cab and 4wd. Go to a extended cab 2WD and it will make a noticeable difference in empty weight and give you lots more trailer choices.

Power is no longer an issue, in the past, you often wouldn't go over GVWR because if you did you'd find it was REALLY hard to get up hills, and even struggle on flat ground. No longer the case at least with the diesels.

I know there are lots of discussions/arguments that the existing GVWR on at least 3/4 tons is arbitrary low and doesn't really reflect what the truck is really capable of carrying safely. That discussion will go on forever.
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Last edited by ktmrfs; 05-14-2015 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 05-15-2015, 03:52 PM   #24 (permalink)
terryk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmrfs View Post
yup, trucks GVWR keeps going up, but so does empty weight and trailer weights. My 04.5 duramax has a 9200GVWR and 7200 empty= 2000 for cargo.

My 2015 denali, same exact body style has 10,000 GWVR. Did I gain 800lbs in cargo capacity?? NOPE!!! I gained about 200lbs. New truck weights 7800 empty, which leaves me with only 200lbs more CC. granted the Denali does have more "stuff", but I suspect the new chassis is also heavier.

...
Well that's not what I expected. I thought the new trucks increased the payload without a major increase in their weight. Seems they just upped the gross to overcome the extra weight.

I did notice that a lot of commercial people tow with a dually 2WD standard cab gasser. Those seem to have the highest capacity since (as you said), no crew/ext, no 4WD and the D/A subtracts from the gross. I don't know if the D/A increases the gross though.
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Old 05-15-2015, 04:34 PM   #25 (permalink)
ktmrfs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terryk View Post
Well that's not what I expected. I thought the new trucks increased the payload without a major increase in their weight. Seems they just upped the gross to overcome the extra weight.

I did notice that a lot of commercial people tow with a dually 2WD standard cab gasser. Those seem to have the highest capacity since (as you said), no crew/ext, no 4WD and the D/A subtracts from the gross. I don't know if the D/A increases the gross though.
looking at the "fine print" the big cargo capacity is usually for a 2wd, std cab with gas engine. long bed reduced cargo capacity some, 4wd is a big hit, duramax an even bigger hit. AFAIK the Duramax doesn't have a higher GVWR in the 1 ton. with a 3/4 ton Durmax is 10K, gas is lower with a 10K GVWR optional. Duramax does have a higher towing capacity than the gas.

basically you can buy a 1 ton srw GMC/Silverado for very very close to the same price as a equally optioned 3/4 ton and gain 1500lbs in GVWR and probably close to 1500lbs in cargo capacity. But SRW 1 ton is hard to find, most around here at least are DRW
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pinstriping by Bob Spencer AKA "spirit", undercover FLEX tonneau cover, color matched bug shield and vent visors, raintracker rain sensing wipers, X-treme coating bedliner, gm trailering camera system, coolant filter, Bilsteins, remote tailgate lock

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97 Mercedes SL500, red with tan interior 97 Mercedes E420 sedan, royal indigo with grey interior 2001 KTM400EXC, 2011 Outback 295RE travel trailer
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Old 05-17-2015, 09:50 PM   #26 (permalink)
terryk
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I was just thinking they hadn't gotten that much heavier.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:04 AM   #27 (permalink)
fvstringpicker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmrfs View Post

I know there are lots of discussions/arguments that the existing GVWR on at least 3/4 tons is arbitrary low and doesn't really reflect what the truck is really capable of carrying safely. That discussion will go on forever.
It would be interesting to see some empirical data on the number of accidents directly related to towing overweight and by how much. As best as I can determine, there is little difference between a 2500 and 3500 except the rear springs at least through 2010. This argument is supported by little weight and price difference between the two and the drive train parts number being the same. It makes it hard to trust the reliability of the "door label". I know quite a few people who tow over cargo weight specs without incident.
I'm not advocating towing overweight. It would be nice to know what percentage or pounds overweight that would significantly increase risk of losing control. Its hard to fathom that exceeding the GVWR by a couple or three hundred pounds would put you in dire straits.
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Old 05-18-2015, 12:25 AM   #28 (permalink)
ktmrfs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fvstringpicker View Post
It would be interesting to see some empirical data on the number of accidents directly related to towing overweight and by how much. As best as I can determine, there is little difference between a 2500 and 3500 except the rear springs at least through 2010. This argument is supported by little weight and price difference between the two and the drive train parts number being the same. It makes it hard to trust the reliability of the "door label". I know quite a few people who tow over cargo weight specs without incident.
I'm not advocating towing overweight. It would be nice to know what percentage or pounds overweight that would significantly increase risk of losing control. Its hard to fathom that exceeding the GVWR by a couple or three hundred pounds would put you in dire straits.
2015 is kinda the same situation. 3/4 ton and 1 ton SRW appear to have very very little differences in drivetrain but a 1500lb difference in GVWR. And base price between them is virtually identical.

But then if the 2500 and 3500SRW had the same GVWR why offer two different models???
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pinstriping by Bob Spencer AKA "spirit", undercover FLEX tonneau cover, color matched bug shield and vent visors, raintracker rain sensing wipers, X-treme coating bedliner, gm trailering camera system, coolant filter, Bilsteins, remote tailgate lock

04.5 LLY CC/SB/4x4 Allison Dark Green Metallic/Dark Charcoal Grey Interior
Webasto Hollandia Sunroof, Carbon Fiber Interior Trim, color matched bug shield & vent visors X-treme coating bedliner, Access roll top cover, Westin Step Bars, Lubrication Specialists Aux fuel filter, coolant filter, CAI, Michelin LTX tires, Manual High Idle Mod, Bilsteins, prodigy brake controller, raintracker rain sensing wiper controller, Remote autolocking tailgate, Reese Titan Class V hitch, Allison badges, Pinstriping by Bob Spencer, 4x4 decals removed, color matched door handles, 4 headlight mod, Homelink console.

97 Mercedes SL500, red with tan interior 97 Mercedes E420 sedan, royal indigo with grey interior 2001 KTM400EXC, 2011 Outback 295RE travel trailer
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Old 05-18-2015, 09:39 AM   #29 (permalink)
fvstringpicker
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I don't know other than a marketing tool and heavier rear springs. A couple years back I talk to GM supervisor from an Ohio plant. He told me I was wrong about the only difference is the rear springs. He said they also stand on one foot and whistle dixie when they install them.
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Old 05-18-2015, 11:15 AM   #30 (permalink)
IGO1320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmrfs View Post
nope nope, nope the 9200 is Gross vehicle weight rating of the truck. doesn't make any difference if your pulling a trailer or not. the max legal weight of the truck is 9200lbs. when you go over the scales. period. legally you must be at or under the axle ratings, the tire ratings AND the GVWR.
DOT allows you to be at max axle ratings. I have to go over all scales and have never been warned or fined. Again you have to have like rated tires, yes they do check.

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