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Old 07-25-2011, 12:49 AM   #11 (permalink)
dieseldan723
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Actual Weights

Here are my weights from a recent trip:

Truck w/ Trailer 10,350
Truck alone 7,950
Difference 2,400 (pin weight)

Trailer on truck 10,450
Pin weight 2,400
Total Trailer 12,850

The truck doesn't feel uncomfortable to drive or out of control at all. With the brake controller and the Allison tranny all seems well. I hope I am not being foolish. The trailer is not over weight based on original post, however the truck is 1,150 lbs too heavy.

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Old 07-28-2011, 12:19 AM   #12 (permalink)
dieseldan723
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Upgrade Towing Ability?

Is there anything I can reasonably do to increase the towing capacity of my truck? I have a programmer but that's not what I am talking about. I am talking about the ability to carry additional weight.

I am looking at a new 5th wheel with a dry weight of about 11,600 lbs and a hitch weight of about 2,525 DRY weight. I estimate that I will put 1,500 - 2,000 lbs of weight into it (gear, clothes, food, water, etc).

This is pushing the top limits of the stated capacity, but I feel the truck will handle it.

I plan to upgrade the brakes to slotted rotors as well. What else should I do?

Am I worrying too much about this?

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Old 05-12-2015, 10:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
robmagur
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i am so confused i have a 2003 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating Cap (lbs):9,200

Gross Combined Wt Rating (lbs):16,000

How heavy can the trailer be?

Im looking at 36' HURRICANE GOOSENECK GVWR 14,000

is this right? GCWR 16,000 - GVWR 9,200 = 6,800

can only get a trailer that has GVWR of 6,800?

dose that mean that it can not tow the 12,000 lb tow ratting?
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:03 AM   #14 (permalink)
ktmrfs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robmagur View Post
i am so confused i have a 2003 GMC Sierra 2500HD SLT

Gross Vehicle Weight Rating Cap (lbs):9,200

Gross Combined Wt Rating (lbs):16,000

How heavy can the trailer be?

Im looking at 36' HURRICANE GOOSENECK GVWR 14,000

is this right? GCWR 16,000 - GVWR 9,200 = 6,800

can only get a trailer that has GVWR of 6,800?

dose that mean that it can not tow the 12,000 lb tow ratting?
well, first you need to know the truck empty weight, likely around 7200 lbs.

then you need to know the actual loaded weight of the trailer.

then you need to know the pin weight of the trailer.

suppose the trailer does weigh 14K, pin weight will be around 20-25% or 3K

so, 7200 +3,000 =10,200 so your over truck GVWR

and 14,000 +7200= 21,200 so your over GCWR

in reality I suspect your going to be over GVWR, GCWR, and likely over the rear axle and rear tire load.

The reality is that mfg assume a 10% tongue weight on conventional trailers and something closer to 15% on 5th wheel/goosneck. However it s almost impossible to have a conventional or 5th wheel/gooseneck that has that low of tongue or pin weight. And then they assume a driver, no passengers, no cargo in the tow vehicle.

So, it is a rare case where you can tow the max rating.
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Old 05-13-2015, 12:39 AM   #15 (permalink)
robmagur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmrfs View Post
well, first you need to know the truck empty weight, likely around 7200 lbs.

then you need to know the actual loaded weight of the trailer.

then you need to know the pin weight of the trailer.

suppose the trailer does weigh 14K, pin weight will be around 20-25% or 3K

so, 7200 +3,000 =10,200 so your over truck GVWR

and 14,000 +7200= 21,200 so your over GCWR

in reality I suspect your going to be over GVWR, GCWR, and likely over the rear axle and rear tire load.

The reality is that mfg assume a 10% tongue weight on conventional trailers and something closer to 15% on 5th wheel/goosneck. However it s almost impossible to have a conventional or 5th wheel/gooseneck that has that low of tongue or pin weight. And then they assume a driver, no passengers, no cargo in the tow vehicle.

So, it is a rare case where you can tow the max rating.
ok i think the weight is 6,000 this is the sticker
Truck is Curb Weight - Front (lbs):3061Curb Weight - Rear (lbs):2305 = 5366

http://i61.tinypic.com/23udhua.jpg

Last edited by robmagur; 05-13-2015 at 12:44 AM.
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Old 05-13-2015, 08:49 PM   #16 (permalink)
turnpike
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A few thoughts........

I believe the warranty gross combination rating was/is 22,000 lbs. Now that you are off warranty, some other factors can be considered.

Most important is the axle ratings of the truck and trailer. If you have OEM or similar tires the rating maximum on each truck axle is likely 6200 lbs..... 3100 lbs per tire. And the maximum trailer axle weight ratings as shown on the builders plate on the left front corner of the trailer.

So consider what the ACTUAL weight will be with the trailer on the truck, loaded for your trip, rigged and ready. The truck gross of 9200 is to be considered as areas of the tires, axles, brakes and frame are all rated for that 9200. So don't push that limit very much. The trailer has the same design ratings to consider.

So drop the rig on a scale, weight each axle, and each unit, and the combination in total. Think about the numbers.

FYI: the empty weight is useless!!!!!!!!!!!

The real actual weights in relation to the ratings are what counts. For your safety, and for the law if the law gets ugly.

So you could try to load the trailer so the rear axle of the truck stays under about 5200 lbs. Likely as in my experience with an '05 2500HD, the trailer pin weight will have to be about 2000 lbs. And then loading the trailer will be a challenge to keep the pin weight down to that one ton. When you get that much weight on the trailer without the needed weight on the pin, the tail will wag the dog...... trailer will drive the truck..... no good.

Just my 1 cent worth for what it's worth.
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Old 05-13-2015, 10:01 PM   #17 (permalink)
IGO1320
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9200 is truck max weight loaded no trailer involved. When you add a trailer (fifth or GN) then you can be u to the max of the axles or tires whichever is less. I tow commercial and have to go over the scales with the truck in my Sig. I have towed as heavy a trailer as 21,000 pounds over the scales it was loaded with most of the weight over the trailer axles and only 2000 pin weight. DOT gave me no grief.
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Old 05-13-2015, 11:15 PM   #18 (permalink)
ktmrfs
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IGO1320 View Post
9200 is truck max weight loaded no trailer involved. When you add a trailer (fifth or GN) then you can be u to the max of the axles or tires whichever is less. I tow commercial and have to go over the scales with the truck in my Sig. I have towed as heavy a trailer as 21,000 pounds over the scales it was loaded with most of the weight over the trailer axles and only 2000 pin weight. DOT gave me no grief.
nope nope, nope the 9200 is Gross vehicle weight rating of the truck. doesn't make any difference if your pulling a trailer or not. the max legal weight of the truck is 9200lbs. when you go over the scales. period. legally you must be at or under the axle ratings, the tire ratings AND the GVWR.
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pinstriping by Bob Spencer AKA "spirit", undercover FLEX tonneau cover, color matched bug shield and vent visors, raintracker rain sensing wipers, X-treme coating bedliner, gm trailering camera system, coolant filter, Bilsteins, remote tailgate lock

04.5 LLY CC/SB/4x4 Allison Dark Green Metallic/Dark Charcoal Grey Interior
Webasto Hollandia Sunroof, Carbon Fiber Interior Trim, color matched bug shield & vent visors X-treme coating bedliner, Access roll top cover, Westin Step Bars, Lubrication Specialists Aux fuel filter, coolant filter, CAI, Michelin LTX tires, Manual High Idle Mod, Bilsteins, prodigy brake controller, raintracker rain sensing wiper controller, Remote autolocking tailgate, Reese Titan Class V hitch, Allison badges, Pinstriping by Bob Spencer, 4x4 decals removed, color matched door handles, 4 headlight mod, Homelink console.

97 Mercedes SL500, red with tan interior 97 Mercedes E420 sedan, royal indigo with grey interior 2001 KTM400EXC, 2011 Outback 295RE travel trailer
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Old 05-14-2015, 10:33 AM   #19 (permalink)
robmagur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ktmrfs View Post
nope nope, nope the 9200 is Gross vehicle weight rating of the truck. doesn't make any difference if your pulling a trailer or not. the max legal weight of the truck is 9200lbs. when you go over the scales. period. legally you must be at or under the axle ratings, the tire ratings AND the GVWR.
so should i just go with a bumper pull instead of a gooseneck or 5th? the tow capacity is 12k it does have a class 4 hitch and i can get a weight distributions at 12k.
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Old 05-14-2015, 12:27 PM   #20 (permalink)
terryk
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The bottom line is that as big as these trucks are, the ratings, the HD designation and people's expectations, the 2500HD trucks don't have all that much capacity when it comes to 5th wheels. It's certainly gotten better over the last couple of years but unless you want to go with a small 5th wheel, the 2500HD is probably too small. I had to go to a 3500 SRW to get the additional CC I needed for my 5th wheel and I am right at that CC limit. If a person decides to go over the ratings then there is no limit. If it doesn't break it must be fine.

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