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Old 11-24-2007, 03:32 PM   #21 (permalink)
Whaler22
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 390pi View Post
Oh really?

I see, so my: GMC Yukon, Honda Pilot, Chevy Impala, Jeep Wrangler....etc, etc. were all a part of my "fleet?" I'm NOT talking fleet order here.

I'm John Q. Public, just like you.

And no, none of these vehicles were titled in a business name. I bought them one at a time; I went right to several fleet managers and got prices on a certain vehicle over the phone (invoice or $xxx above invoice) and that was it. The spead was usually small between different dealers. No middle managers, no haggling, just like Internet purchases.

So, please don't suggest that I don't know what I am doing.

I'm not new to car buying. I negotiate real estate contracts for a living; the last thing I want to do at the end of the day is negotiate for a new car when I don't have to. I also value my time and will not spend the time tipically wasted over the haggling process that you and others describe. There is no need for it.

And also, please, do not give out bad information telling people they cannot get better prices by dealing directly with the fleet manager.
Smart buyers already know of this process; even local credit unions push this way of buying. I'm surprised you don't know of this.

Let people see (and save) for themselves.
You totally misunderstood. I didn't suggest any of what you attribute to me above.

I'm not saying that what you propose isn't an effective way to get a good price. I'm saying that going to the fleet guy is not a special advantage over any other manager, which is where EVERY deal ultimately lands, UNLESS you qualify for "fleet status

As I said earlier, I had to qualify the company I worked for as a fleet customer, and my brother in law, a fleet manager for Ford, helped me through that process. (Which is why I can NOT speak to the mechanics of that process for GM.)

The "Fleet Manager" is no different than any other division manager at a large dealership, except that his current assignment is fleet sales. There is different fleet pricing, as I've explained above, but THAT pricing -- the special pricing-- is NOT available to "John Q public", at least not through Ford. What the "fleet manager" can do, for anybody, is the same thing any manager can do -- and that's sell a vehicle quickly, painlessly and at a good price.

What I was trying to clarify/correct was any impression that there was a special advantage in dealing with the fleet guy. For the average guy there isn't. My brother in law is a nice guy, and he's eager to help, but he can't sell me a Ford any cheaper than I can buy one for at the larger dealer up north. We've been through that MANY times. Of course, Brent does get his friends "good deals" on trucks, and they ARE good deals. His friends probably think they're getting the lowest possible price BECAUSE they're dealing with the fleet manager with a large store selling trucks to AT&T and Weyerhauser. It simply isn't so. We've talked through that lots of times too. The fact is my in-law likes to sell to friends and family to help them out, and for most of them it's probably a real blessing. It helps him out too, as it slightly increases his volume, but he's made it very clear that he can't "fudge" the fleet status without risking BIG problems with Ford -- and Ford does spot-audits to make sure that the dealership isn't cheating.

According to my in-law, the audits seem to take place whenever he has a particularly good spike in fleet sales. He thinks that's because other dealers complain that he "must be braking the rules by offering unauthorized fleet pricing", but I suppose it could be just a built-in system check for Ford. You're not going to convince me that most fleet managers are going to offer REAL fleet pricing to any John Q. Public. I suspect most fleet managers are like Brent... they're happy to offer good deals for quick hassle-free sales, but they're not volunteering the bone of the market either. Brent's "family fleet price" is usually $200 over invoice, minus whatever rebates are being offered. On my last Ford truck, his price beat my home-town dealer's best price by about $800, but he was STILL about $700 more than I ultimately paid by doing what I suggest above -- because the larger dealer up north. (At that time I lived 75 miles south of Brent, so he wasn't the home-town dealer either. Now that I live in the same town, I'd probably just buy from him if I was going to buy a Ford -- even though I KNOW I could pay less doing what I described above. Thank goodness that's not an option anymore in the truck department

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Old 11-24-2007, 07:39 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Another note: From the perspective of the car-dealer... Brent says, "The perfect car deal is one in which the dealer makes a large profit but the customer is convinced that he has 'screwed' the dealer, or at least made a really great deal...as those are the deals they continue to talk about with enthusiasm, and that sends more people our way." The reality, of course, is that nobody ever screws the dealer, as the dealer always has all the numbers...


Last edited by Whaler22; 11-24-2007 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 11-24-2007, 07:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
ZX12R
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Whaler,thats some great informatiom!I am looking to buy aC5500,does the MSRP and window sticker work the same way as on the smaller trucks,or ,is it different? It is hard to find invoice pricing on the net for the larger trucks.I did not see anything on Edmonds.
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Old 11-24-2007, 07:49 PM   #24 (permalink)
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By the way, 390pi, if you want to see how good your deal really was, take the Maroni sticker from your truck and apply the few simple steps I suggested. We'll never know the outcome, or care, but you'll know how good your deal was, as every one of the numbers I provided can be independently verified.
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Old 11-24-2007, 08:30 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Great post Whaler22. I'm in the middle of a deal right now waiting for a truck to come in. Sticker is very close to $55,255, They showed me their "invoice" for about $50,479. That's what they will sell it to me for less $1,500 in rebates=$48,979. Excuse me if I don't follow your math:If I take my $55,255x.89=$49,176-$1,500(rebate)=I should be able to pay $47,676.95 for my new truck. Is that correct. The truck I want is somewhat hard to come by here. There are some around but, the dealers don't want to part with them to my dealer. I want to buy local because I have known the owner of the dealership for 18 yrs., but it ultimately comes down to money. What do you think? Eric
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Old 11-24-2007, 09:50 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I'm currently in the middle of a deal too so I'm glad I came across this post. I also qualify for the GM supplier discount so I'm not sure how close that gets to invoice. The bad part is that I have an 07 Honda SUV for a trade...as Honda's hold their value higher than all other brands beside Toyota...it's bad because a used 07 is almost the same price as a new 08! So that makes them hard to sell so no one will want to give me what it's worth.
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:11 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdubh View Post
I'm currently in the middle of a deal too so I'm glad I came across this post. I also qualify for the GM supplier discount so I'm not sure how close that gets to invoice. The bad part is that I have an 07 Honda SUV for a trade...as Honda's hold their value higher than all other brands beside Toyota...it's bad because a used 07 is almost the same price as a new 08! So that makes them hard to sell so no one will want to give me what it's worth.
I just traded in a 2006 Chevy Silverado 3500 with 12,000 miles on it and got the ecact same amount that I paid for it, let's see you do that with your Honda.
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Last edited by Dieselonly; 11-24-2007 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:13 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Prograde, did you go to Edmunds and match option for option? As I said, the 89% figure is a rough but fair estimate, but a solid number requires building the exact truck. The other potential variables are shipping, if you didn't visit Edmunds and/or enter the correct zip code, and the addition of "dealer pack". (Some dealers take certain fixed overhead costs for the year, divide the total by the average number of vehicles sold, and add that fractional amount as part of the invoice "cost", though this is much more common on the used side of the dealership.)

I'd never advise you how to proceed with respect to your friend, but I've been in a similar bind more than once, including the first time I shopped with my brother-in-law. I opted for complete candor and asked him to explain the difference. In one case there were a couple minor errors in the Edmunds prices amounting to a total of about $200. The rest had to do with the dealer view of holdback. Remember, the holdback does not show anywhere on the invoice for the truck.

To the gentleman shopping the 5500: I don't know the answer. Sorry. I suspect the structure is the same with "commercial duty" vehicles, but I don't know. One thought: if you have a friend involved in commercial banking/lending he may be a good source for this kind of information, as this inventory has to be floored, and the vehicle cost structure is often known to the bank/finance guys who assist with it.

Last edited by Whaler22; 11-24-2007 at 10:15 PM.
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:15 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdubh View Post
I'm currently in the middle of a deal too so I'm glad I came across this post. I also qualify for the GM supplier discount so I'm not sure how close that gets to invoice. The bad part is that I have an 07 Honda SUV for a trade...as Honda's hold their value higher than all other brands beside Toyota...it's bad because a used 07 is almost the same price as a new 08! So that makes them hard to sell so no one will want to give me what it's worth.
Supplier price is below the dealer's "stated" or published invoice by a few hundred dollars and about $2000 above GMS (which is GM employee pricing). From what I understand,the actual invoice the dealer pays is less hold-back, less advertising credits, and less a few other factors.
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Old 11-24-2007, 10:16 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProGrade View Post
Great post Whaler22. I'm in the middle of a deal right now waiting for a truck to come in. Sticker is very close to $55,255, They showed me their "invoice" for about $50,479. That's what they will sell it to me for less $1,500 in rebates=$48,979. Excuse me if I don't follow your math:If I take my $55,255x.89=$49,176-$1,500(rebate)=I should be able to pay $47,676.95 for my new truck. Is that correct. The truck I want is somewhat hard to come by here. There are some around but, the dealers don't want to part with them to my dealer. I want to buy local because I have known the owner of the dealership for 18 yrs., but it ultimately comes down to money. What do you think? Eric
You're getting a pretty good price on that truck.

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Last edited by Dieselonly; 11-24-2007 at 10:17 PM.
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