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Duramax Fifth Generation: 2011-2016 (LML) Discuss the fifth generation (2011-2016) of the 6.6L Duramax diesel engine & associated components. Engine related discussion ONLY.

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Old 01-30-2019, 09:57 PM   #1 (permalink)
dmax3500
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possible fuel gelling,-21

I just got back from a 300 mile run [picked up a cust truck]


truck running good ,
but a customers truck gelled up -21 temps,
then after filling my truck,2 miles later fuel filter light/dic,''change fuel filter'' 0%,,reset and it comes back in 2 miles,,100-0%,,


nowhere to go ,so its back to the gas station,add 1 gal gasoline,yep I know gas and diesel arnt good for each other,but we used to do it in the 80's in Cadillac diesels[350 olds diesels]at the caddy dealer


drove 200 miles back in -20 temps and still 100% fuel filter life,refilled with reg diesel and 1/2 white bottle power service


truck is inside a heated shop over-night,


and customers truck started after battery charge ,and fresh fuel with PS


the ''Q'' is what do you guys think if adding gas to a tank of diesel in these -20 temps

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Old 01-30-2019, 11:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
ktmrfs
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I wouldn't do it. I've never had gelling problems even with temps in the -30 to -40F temps several times but I had filled up with local fuel so I knew I had winter blend fuel. Suprised your local fillup didn't have winter blend fuel.

I'd add a few gallons of #1 in a 30 gallon tank before I'd add any gas. Or use standyne or other additives that lower the wax point.

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Old 01-31-2019, 05:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Better off using Kerosene than gas. Better off using Kerosene than Diesel 911 or Howe's too, for that matter...
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Old 01-31-2019, 10:39 AM   #4 (permalink)
redwngr
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Find some #1 fuel instead.

https://www.agweb.com/blog/in-the-sh...-fuel-gelling/

Diesel Fuel Gelling
Nov 08, 2018
Gelling of diesel fuel occurs when wax, a normal, necessary component of #2 diesel fuel, crystallizes at low temperatures. The “cloud point” of a particular formulation of diesel fuel is the temperature where crystals of wax begin to form. The “gel point” is the temperature when enough wax crystals develop to transform the fuel from liquid to semi-solid.

Gel point for # 2 diesel varies, but ranges between 10 and 20 degrees F. Wax crystals in chilled diesel fuel measure 50- to 260 microns. That's a definite problem for modern Tier IV Diesel engines that have final fuel filters that filter down to 2 microns.

Cloud and gel points can be lowered well below 0 degrees F. by blending #1 diesel fuel, kerosene or aftermarket anti-gel fuel additives with winter-grade #2 diesel. Cloud point for straight #1 diesel can be as low as -40 degrees F., but using straight #1 diesel is not recommended because of the higher cost-per-gallon and lower lubricity of pure #1 diesel fuel. Adequate fuel lubricity is critical for Tier III and Tier IV Diesel engines.

The best prevention to cold weather problems with diesel-fueled engines is to switch to winter-grade diesel fuel before the first frost, and begin adding anti-gel fuel additives when temperatures fall below 20 degrees F. Home brewing winter-grade diesel fuel by adding #1 diesel fuel or kerosene to winter-grade #2 fuel yourself is an option, but carries expensive risks.

Engineers note that modern Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) #1 diesel fuel and USLD kerosene have less lubricity than old-school #1 diesel fuel or kerosene, increasing the possibility of problems with Tier III and Tier IV diesel engines which are extremely finicky about lubricity. Home-blends of #1 and #2 ULSD fuels may not meet the lubrication needs of fuel injection systems on modern diesel engines. Experts recommend using special aftermarket diesel fuel additives to lower cloud and gel points without reducing the lubricative quality of the fuel.

So, for all you old-timers who used to blend kerosine, or #1 diesel fuel, or even gasoline with the #2 diesel fuel you ran in your old 4020, 706 or 190XT---that strategy could be very, very expensive if you try it with the Tier III or Tier IV Diesel engines in your newer trucks or tractors.




Another one: (also has pics of 'gelled' fuel)

https://fuelandfriction.com/trucking...-fuel-gelling/
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Last edited by redwngr; 01-31-2019 at 10:43 AM.
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:06 AM   #5 (permalink)
dmax3500
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yep,I added 1/2 bottle of ''PS white'' too,couldn't find any #1,
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Old 01-31-2019, 11:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
gmc502
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redwngr View Post
Find some #1 fuel instead.

https://www.agweb.com/blog/in-the-sh...-fuel-gelling/

Diesel Fuel Gelling
Nov 08, 2018
Gelling of diesel fuel occurs when wax, a normal, necessary component of #2 diesel fuel, crystallizes at low temperatures. The “cloud point” of a particular formulation of diesel fuel is the temperature where crystals of wax begin to form. The “gel point” is the temperature when enough wax crystals develop to transform the fuel from liquid to semi-solid.

Gel point for # 2 diesel varies, but ranges between 10 and 20 degrees F. Wax crystals in chilled diesel fuel measure 50- to 260 microns. That's a definite problem for modern Tier IV Diesel engines that have final fuel filters that filter down to 2 microns.

Cloud and gel points can be lowered well below 0 degrees F. by blending #1 diesel fuel, kerosene or aftermarket anti-gel fuel additives with winter-grade #2 diesel. Cloud point for straight #1 diesel can be as low as -40 degrees F., but using straight #1 diesel is not recommended because of the higher cost-per-gallon and lower lubricity of pure #1 diesel fuel. Adequate fuel lubricity is critical for Tier III and Tier IV Diesel engines.

The best prevention to cold weather problems with diesel-fueled engines is to switch to winter-grade diesel fuel before the first frost, and begin adding anti-gel fuel additives when temperatures fall below 20 degrees F. Home brewing winter-grade diesel fuel by adding #1 diesel fuel or kerosene to winter-grade #2 fuel yourself is an option, but carries expensive risks.

Engineers note that modern Ultra Low Sulfur Diesel (ULSD) #1 diesel fuel and USLD kerosene have less lubricity than old-school #1 diesel fuel or kerosene, increasing the possibility of problems with Tier III and Tier IV diesel engines which are extremely finicky about lubricity. Home-blends of #1 and #2 ULSD fuels may not meet the lubrication needs of fuel injection systems on modern diesel engines. Experts recommend using special aftermarket diesel fuel additives to lower cloud and gel points without reducing the lubricative quality of the fuel.

So, for all you old-timers who used to blend kerosine, or #1 diesel fuel, or even gasoline with the #2 diesel fuel you ran in your old 4020, 706 or 190XT---that strategy could be very, very expensive if you try it with the Tier III or Tier IV Diesel engines in your newer trucks or tractors.




Another one: (also has pics of 'gelled' fuel)

https://fuelandfriction.com/trucking...-fuel-gelling/
good read,thanks
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Old 01-31-2019, 12:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
Lingus
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2006 LBZ was a no start condition this morning (-5F). First time ever in 300k miles and 12 years since buying her new. It's seen colder temps than this so I don't know why it decided to gel today. A new filter and a bottle of 911 did the trick.
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Old 02-14-2019, 03:26 PM   #8 (permalink)
SRex
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Kerosene

I used to test the gel/freeze point of fuels and kerosene gels in the -20 to -25 range (depending on the grade and purity), so I would look for better options if it gets that cold and you have "summer blend" in your tank. I'm a analytical chemist by training and worked in a QC lab for 15 years.
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Old 02-20-2019, 06:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
wild1
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There are proper additives to add. Don't add gas. Additives are basically used to either prevent gelling or there are ones added as emergency after the fuel has already gelled. I live in a cold climate and haven't seen diesel gel up in a couple years.
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