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Duramax Fifth Generation: 2011-2016 (LML) Discuss the fifth generation (2011-2016) of the 6.6L Duramax diesel engine & associated components. Engine related discussion ONLY.

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Old 01-09-2019, 08:02 PM   #51 (permalink)
redhooker
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My old truck was an LBZ with the CP3 fuel pump. Zero tune, bone stock.

At about 178,000 miles, the fuel pump grenaded the entire fuel system. The dealership thought it was just the fuel pump, quoted me a price of $2500 to replace it. I authorized the repair and they completed it. After they were finished they couldn’t understand why the truck ran like complete ****. It idled rougher than a 1970s Harley Davidson. They tried to make me pay for the repair, and then pay them to figure out (guess on the next part swap, which they were going to do lifters next and would have been dead wrong) what was really wrong with the truck. At this point I got the factory rep involved.

The factory rep came out and was able to pretty much immediately diagnose the problem. As it turns out mine was not the only CP3 fuel pump to completely take out the entire fuel system. According to the man from GM, it actually happens relatively frequently. Frequently, as in on a nation wide scale. So overall still pretty rare. After telling them how to fix it he had the dealership complete the repairs and they didn’t charge me anything over the original quote for the fuel pump. But I was informed of the repairs would’ve cost me well north of $10,000.

The moral of my story is converting to a CP3 fuel pump might not be any better than just replacing with another CP4 brand new. I completely agree with the concept of a lift pump and additional filter ration. But I don’t see the benefit in converting to a CP3 if you don’t have a need for the additional fuel provided by. I was always amused when I would read about people saying the CP3 would not destroy your fuel system, since of course mine did and during the debacle I found out that it actually happened many times throughout the country.

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Old 01-09-2019, 11:06 PM   #52 (permalink)
Dmax Dually
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Is the CP3 fuel pump that was used in the LBZ (2006- 2007.5) the same exact pump that they are now using in the newer trucks or did they modify and make improvements to the newer CP3's?

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Old 01-09-2019, 11:11 PM   #53 (permalink)
gunnerdmax2003
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So from 2011 to 2016 they are running a CP 4 injection pump. The 2017 and newer are running a Bosch brand pump.


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2012 GMC Denali HD
Edge monitor, PCV rerouted, FASS 150, Def removed, AFE SS 4inch down pipe back exhaust, MBRP down pipe, WC FAB Y-bridge kit with hot and cold side inter cooling pipes(chevy racing orange), EGR removed, EFI Live by Korey Willis, AFE momentum HD 10R intake, mag hytec Deep pan , leveled by cognito stage 3 kit with UCA's. Caltrac traction bars, Kryptonite straight center link, tie rods, PISC kit, HD sway bar end links, Amsoil in both diffs.Toyo Open Country A/T II 295/60R20s (34x11.61R20) on SOTA REPR 20x9 machined.
previous truck:
2003 Chevy 2500HD dmax
edge with attitude, AFE intake, MBRP 4inch stainless
H2 rims 315/70/17 BFG AT's
Should have never got rid of her!
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:27 AM   #54 (permalink)
redhooker
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CP3 has only one generation I am aware of.

2017 and up run Denso pump and Denso silinoid (similar to LMM and prior generations) injectors. LML trucks use piezoelectric Bosch injectors and those are why the LML runs a CP4 Bosch pump.
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:30 AM   #55 (permalink)
redhooker
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I will add that my philosophy on this LML is I am going to change my CP for 125,000 miles. I will run a lift pump, but I’m not going to exceed those miles on any CP4 pump. Changing it before it fails is much cheaper than waiting until it fails, so a little preventative maintenance will give me peace of mind
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Old 01-10-2019, 10:45 AM   #56 (permalink)
SwampWS6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhooker View Post
My old truck was an LBZ with the CP3 fuel pump. Zero tune, bone stock.

At about 178,000 miles, the fuel pump grenaded the entire fuel system. The dealership thought it was just the fuel pump, quoted me a price of $2500 to replace it. I authorized the repair and they completed it. After they were finished they couldnít understand why the truck ran like complete ****. It idled rougher than a 1970s Harley Davidson. They tried to make me pay for the repair, and then pay them to figure out (guess on the next part swap, which they were going to do lifters next and would have been dead wrong) what was really wrong with the truck. At this point I got the factory rep involved.

The factory rep came out and was able to pretty much immediately diagnose the problem. As it turns out mine was not the only CP3 fuel pump to completely take out the entire fuel system. According to the man from GM, it actually happens relatively frequently. Frequently, as in on a nation wide scale. So overall still pretty rare. After telling them how to fix it he had the dealership complete the repairs and they didnít charge me anything over the original quote for the fuel pump. But I was informed of the repairs wouldíve cost me well north of $10,000.

The moral of my story is converting to a CP3 fuel pump might not be any better than just replacing with another CP4 brand new. I completely agree with the concept of a lift pump and additional filter ration. But I donít see the benefit in converting to a CP3 if you donít have a need for the additional fuel provided by. I was always amused when I would read about people saying the CP3 would not destroy your fuel system, since of course mine did and during the debacle I found out that it actually happened many times throughout the country.
The CP3 is a much better option over the CP4. The fact that CP3 failures in the LBZ platform were so few and far in between. The CP4 failures in the LML trucks far exceeds any CP3 failures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmax Dually View Post
Is the CP3 fuel pump that was used in the LBZ (2006- 2007.5) the same exact pump that they are now using in the newer trucks or did they modify and make improvements to the newer CP3's?
I think they all have been modified. I cant confirm this for sure but I know its not a direct replacement from the LBZ.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnerdmax2003 View Post
So from 2011 to 2016 they are running a CP 4 injection pump. The 2017 and newer are running a Bosch brand pump.


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Yes. I think the 15-16 LML has the updated CP4.2.....
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:23 AM   #57 (permalink)
Dmax Dually
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redhooker View Post
I will add that my philosophy on this LML is I am going to change my CP for 125,000 miles. I will run a lift pump, but Iím not going to exceed those miles on any CP4 pump. Changing it before it fails is much cheaper than waiting until it fails, so a little preventative maintenance will give me peace of mind
I totally understand your philosophy. For my peace of mind I installed a Fass 95 Gal lift pump a few weeks ago (at about 109,000 miles). I left my factory filter installed so I now have 3 filters. I also started adding Opt-lube to the fuel at every fill up. Who knows for sure, but from what I have read the CP4 pump failures seem to be attributed to contaminated/ water in fuel and the lack of lubricating properties of the ultra low sulfur diesel fuel.
When you replace your CP4 pump are you going to install the CP3 or keep the CP4? Are you going to do the work yourself? I absolutely hate bring my truck to the deal when it is necessary for a problem. I'm sure not going to volentarily let them tear into my engine if there is not a problem. IMHO If it's not broke I don't fix it.
I've been to 3 different dealers. First, their techs have very little knowledge or experience on diesels and don't have a clue how to trouble shoot. They don't even know how the systems, especially the DPF/ region, is supposed to work. If their is no code telling them what to do or part to change they don't know what to do.
Second, they don't take care of your vehicle when they work on them. If your lucky you will get it back only with smudges and grease prints on it. If not you will get it back with scratches on your fenders or hood. Then try to prove they weren't there before.
I did the most I can do to protect my CP4. I don't know how much it would cost to have the dealer or a local shop replace a working pump as a precaution but I'm guessing 5 to $7,000.
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:31 AM   #58 (permalink)
redhooker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwampWS6 View Post
The CP3 is a much better option over the CP4. The fact that CP3 failures in the LBZ platform were so few and far in between. The CP4 failures in the LML trucks far exceeds any CP3 failures.



I think they all have been modified. I cant confirm this for sure but I know its not a direct replacement from the LBZ.



Yes. I think the 15-16 LML has the updated CP4.2.....
Well you may be correct about the failure rate, and I would be inclined to agree with you, we do not know this for sure. Anecdotal evidence does not equal a fact. It certainly is true on these forums. But my local service department has only replaced I have toís and see you beforeĎs in the last five years. They have done more of CP3s, although those are older trucks and lots of other things play into that.

Iíve been a member of the boards a long time and donít post a lot, but since my local experience doesnít line up with much of what is bantered about I feel obligated to just point out some other possibilities. Whatís happening around me is not necessarily the rule nationwide. But the same goes for the other side of the coin.

LML owners might need to replace their pumps at about 125,000 miles, LB7 orders need to replace her injectors about the same. L5P owners now have two fuel pumps to worry about as the truck cannot run without both of them. We will see how this all plays out
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:33 AM   #59 (permalink)
redhooker
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Sorry I can’t edit, the above should say the dealership has replaced about a half dozen CP4s. God bless voice to text
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Old 01-10-2019, 11:38 AM   #60 (permalink)
gunnerdmax2003
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Sorry my last post wasnít accurate,



2012 GMC Denali HD

Edge monitor, PCV rerouted, FASS 150, Def removed, AFE SS 4inch down pipe back exhaust, MBRP down pipe, WC FAB Y-bridge kit with hot and cold side inter cooling pipes(chevy racing orange), EGR removed, EFI Live by Korey Willis, AFE momentum HD 10R intake, mag hytec Deep pan ,merchant automotive trans brace, leveled by cognito stage 3 kit with UCA's. Caltrac traction bars( removes for daily driving), Kryptonite: straight center link, tie rods, PISC kit, HD sway bar end links. Amsoil in both diffs. Toyo Open Country A/T II 295/60R20s (34x11.61R20) on SOTA REPR 20x9 machined.

previous truck:

2003 Chevy 2500HD LT Dmax

edge with attitude, AFE intake, MBRP 4inch, H2 rims 315/70/17 BFG AT's

Should have never got rid of her!

__________________
2012 GMC Denali HD
Edge monitor, PCV rerouted, FASS 150, Def removed, AFE SS 4inch down pipe back exhaust, MBRP down pipe, WC FAB Y-bridge kit with hot and cold side inter cooling pipes(chevy racing orange), EGR removed, EFI Live by Korey Willis, AFE momentum HD 10R intake, mag hytec Deep pan , leveled by cognito stage 3 kit with UCA's. Caltrac traction bars, Kryptonite straight center link, tie rods, PISC kit, HD sway bar end links, Amsoil in both diffs.Toyo Open Country A/T II 295/60R20s (34x11.61R20) on SOTA REPR 20x9 machined.
previous truck:
2003 Chevy 2500HD dmax
edge with attitude, AFE intake, MBRP 4inch stainless
H2 rims 315/70/17 BFG AT's
Should have never got rid of her!
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