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Duramax Fifth Generation: 2011-2016 (LML) Discuss the fifth generation (2011-2016) of the 6.6L Duramax diesel engine & associated components. Engine related discussion ONLY.

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Old 03-30-2017, 09:03 PM   #1 (permalink)
Schmokee
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First 2011 gmc duramax (def fluid quality poor)??

I am new here so here it goes...just moved to Idaho and left military so I wanted a diesel to enjoy soooo...

Dennis Dillon in Boise sold me a 2011 dmax with 88K on it. Was supposed to be simple fix with the DIC saying def fluid quality poor. No DTCs on it and was cleared. Replaced #2 Nox sensor and other things replaced. Techs are at a loss and had to call GM techline for assistance and nothing so far. I have not even driven the truck yet since it was sold to me for 32K plus lifetime warranty on drivetrain and 75k bumper to bumper.

I hear the bad stories but since they cant figure out how to clear the DIC it is stuck at 55mph mode and they will not release it to me until fixed. Has been a week and still no luck.

Does anyone have ideas on issue and when fixed, should I trust this year of truck with the def issue? and is this something that with the updates and parts being replaced, have no future problems....seems a hit and miss on this year...
And to boot, they have another 2011 that was JUST traded in with same issue. I am at a loss to do and loosing confidence...

Any advice and input is appreciated.

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Old 03-31-2017, 12:53 AM   #2 (permalink)
Schmokee
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def fluid issue...

Anyone have any input on this issue i aforementioned?

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Old 03-31-2017, 02:19 AM   #3 (permalink)
heymccall
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Well, the whole story would help. The truck cannot be speed restricted unless there is at least one fault code.
The system for DEF is rather simple. Tank with pump and heaters, selective catalyst, doser nozzle, and two NOx sensors.
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Old 03-31-2017, 03:43 AM   #4 (permalink)
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According to Dennis Dillon techs who are (supposed) to be GM certified. They said there is no DTC errors. Those were cleared. #2 NOx sensor replaced and on the DIC portion it shows def fluid quality poor and shows speed restriced to 55mph.
They say they can not get the DIC to clear so that the ECM can reset itself or whatever it is supposed to do. They said they are doing multiple regens on it and reductant fluid quality test is failing.
They do not give me a straight story. I do know they had to call the GM techline for help and waiting for instructions. They replaced the DPF as well and the injector for the DEF.

That sums up the whole thing. And the system seems to have the tank, DOC, SCR, DPF, doser nozzle and the fuel injector to spray as well along with the NOX sensors.

I hear it is better to rip it all out, BUT I got the lifetime warranty and b2b warranty
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Old 03-31-2017, 08:08 AM   #5 (permalink)
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This might not be your fix for there are many. But you might reconsider doing a delete and you won't regret it. It's easy, cheep, and you'll be happy.

Post #16 https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-...55-mph-me.html

14652A: Special Coverage Adjustment – Diesel-Emission- Reduction Fluid Tank – 2010-2012 Chevrolet & GMC | gm.oemdtc.com

Google (Duramax LML def fluid quality poor and shows speed restricted to 55 mph) lots to read. You'll find your answer in one of the thousands of posts.

There is a calibration for the vehicle computer update .This will need to be done by a dealer.

#PIP4864C: Low Or Speed Limited Diesel Exhaust Fluid Message Displayed Intermittently Or Will Not Reset - Including Cold Weather Operation - (Jan 13, 2011)

dealer may encounter a customer vehicle with a DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) low message, speed limiting message, or a DEF range not resetting after a refill. If the vehicle is known to be full of DEF, and the ambient temperature is less than -9 C or 16 F, the vehicle may enter a "Frozen Tank Status".
Frozen tank status is described at the bottom of the recommendation / instruction portion of this PI.
After a refill it may be necessary to drive the vehicle for a few miles before the DEF fluid information will update on the DIC. If the vehicle has been driven for a few miles, the ignition has been turned off (allowing the ECM to go to sleep for at least 5 minutes), and the DIC will not update, the message may have become latched into the ECM.
There are three different reasons for a DEF (Diesel Exhaust Fluid) warning message to set.
(Exhaust Fluid Empty Refill Now) A DEF tank fluid level warning - includes messages about adding fluid and exhaust fluid range
(Exhaust Fluid Quality Poor-see owner's manual now) A DEF Quality message - Makes sure DEF fluid is lowering NOx emissions to a satisfactory level (usually has DTC).
(Service Exhaust Fluid System-see owner's manual now) A DEF Fluid Tamper mode - Tamper mode is for conditions associated with an attempt to disable reductant system operation, or the system detects concerns (DTCs) with reductant system ope
It is important to know the exact DIC message so correct diagnostics are completed. Please see SI documents(NNN) NNN-NNNN(NNN) NNN-NNNN and(NNN) NNN-NNNNfor clarification.
Important: The tampering or quality messages must be resolved prior to performing this procedure. The procedure below has been set up to address DEF fluid level resets. For DEF system Quality or Tampering messages the newest version of PIP4829 should be completed.
Important: Any Engine DTCs must be diagnosed and repaired before the any DEF messages are addressed.
If all DTCs have been addressed, the DEF fluid tank level is showing full at 100%, and the vehicle has been driven for at least four to five miles (6.5 to 8.0 km) the dealer can reset ECM with the relearn procedure listed below.
Note: Be sure to complete this process on a level surface.
Drain the DEF tank following SI repair procedures-Fuel Tank Draining (Emission Reduction Fluid)
Use the Tech 2 to verify the tank has been completely drained. To verify the tank is completely empty all three Reductant Level Sensors (found in Tech 2 reductant system data) must show inactive. If a level sensor is sensing fluid it will show active.
The ECM will be reprogrammed using a "two part" level reset calibration available through TIS2WEB. This replaces the previous VCI calibration that required contacting GM Techline Customer Support Center. Part one of the two part calibration will be titled "ECM DEF tank fluid level warning latched reset programming per PIP4864". Select "Replace and Reprogram" as the Programming Process. Select "Normal" as the Programming Type.


Note: The vehicle will be speed limited to 5 mph (8 kph) if part one of the calibration is left in the ECM (If for some reason part two of the calibration is not installed). If the special DEF level reset selection is not found in TIS2WEB, please contact the GM Techline Customer Support Center (TCSC) at(NNN) NNN-NNNN(800-503-3222 French) so the DEF level reset ECM programming option can be added.
Key off the ignition for at least 2 minutes (may be up to 5 minutes). The technician must be sure all retained power is dissipated completely when powering down the ECM.
Start the truck and allow to idle for one minute. During this time at least one of the following messages should be displayed on the DIC:
"Exhaust Fluid Empty Refill Now - 55 MPH (89 km/h) Max Speed Next Restart"
"Exhaust Fluid Empty Refill Now - Speed Limited to 55 MPH (89 km/h)",
"Exhaust Fluid Empty Refill Now - 4 MPH (6 km/h) Max Speed Next Fuel Fill",
"Exhaust Fluid Empty Refill Now - Speed Limited to 4 MPH (6 km/h)"
Shut down the truck and allow ECM to power down (ign. key off, wait 2 minutes).
With the ignition off fill the DEF tank with a maximum of 5 gallons (18.9 L).
Start the truck and allow the warning messages on the DIC to go away. When starting the vehicle it is important to move immediately from the Off position to the Start position. If the ignition is left in the Off position for a long period of time the refill detection will not occur. If this happens, turn the ignition off, wait two minutes, and then start the vehicle.
Turn off the vehicle and complete the ECM programming again with the second portion of the two part calibration titled "Engine Control Module" also available through TIS2WEB. This will update the vehicle to the current calibration in TIS2WEB - Select "Replace and Reprogram" as the Programming Process.


Important: If the correct calibration (second portion of two part calibration) is not reflashed into the vehicle it will be limited to 5 mph.
Note: THIS PROCEDURE MUST BE FOLLOWED EXACTLY; EVERY STEP MUST BE PERFORMED AS DETAILED.
Frozen Tank Status Description
In operating temperatures of -9C / 15F or less, customers may comment on an "Exhaust Fluid Range" message displaying on the DIC even though the DEF fluid has been filled or is known to be full. This is likely because the truck is in the "Frozen Tank Status". This is usually an intermittent condition.
If the DEF is frozen, the level sensor cannot determine the fluid level in the tank. If this occurs the logic of the PCM will assume a default fluid level. The logic will use the calculated range based on DEF dosing history and the assumed fluid level.
If there is a high learned dosing rate and the fluid has not thawed to where the pins of the level sensor can function, there is a possibility the "Exhaust Fluid Range" message can set with the range from approximately 1000 miles to less than 300 miles.
This is an operating characteristic of the system. However to increase or eliminate the range message, once the range drops below 300 miles, the DEF tank should be refilled. This should allow refill detection to occur and turn off the range indicator.
When in frozen tank status, refill detections are not allowed until the warning strategy reaches the point at which the distance remaining is less than 300 miles. The refill detection is dependent on the DEF thawing enough that the level sensor pins can be read. A fully frozen tank can take up to an hour to detect a refill after the vehicle is started and the DEF heaters are operating.
Related to the "Frozen Tank Status". When DEF is frozen, adding DEF may not be recognized until the fluid around the Discrete Level Sensors (DLS) has thawed. To verify if the fluid is frozen, the Tech 2 DEF level reading can be used. After a normal DEF tank fill, the DEF fluid level reading (on Tech 2) should have increased to 100%. If fluid was added and the level does not change, the DEF fluid may be frozen. The fluid will have to be thawed before completing the process in this PI. A reading of 100% does not indicate that the entire tank is thawed. As the DEF in the tank is thawing, it is normal to see the level sensors in the tank react differently than when the fluid is thawed. For example, pins 1 and 3 could be active and pin 2 inactive. This would not be possible with a thawed tank. When the range message is less than 300 miles, the refill detection should occur as soon as liquid DEF is contacting more than the first DEF fluid level pins.
Engineering is investigating the erratic DEF range messages. This PI will be updated when new information has been received.
Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.

#PIP4864D: Low Or Speed Limited Diesel Exhaust Fluid Message Displayed Intermittently Or Will Not Reset - Including Cold Weather Operation - (Jan 24, 2011)


Subject: Low Or Speed Limited Diesel Exhaust Fluid Message Displayed Intermittently Or Will Not Reset - Including Cold Weather Operation

Models: 2010-2011 Chevrolet Express
2010-2011 GMC Savana
2011 Chevrolet Silverado
2011 GMC Sierra
Equipped with 6.6L Diesel Engine RPO codes LML and LGH

This PI was superseded to update recommended field. Please discard PIP4864C.

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.
Condition/Concern:


Important: The information in this PI addresses "ONLY" the DIC messages "Exhaust Fluid Low", "Exhaust Fluid Empty - Refill Now", or "Exhaust Fluid Range: XXX" (Range shown depends on message level). For DEF (diesel exhaust fluid) system Quality or Tampering messages follow the current SI diagnostics, and review the newest version of PIP4829.
This PI references an updated calibration available in TIS2WEB on 1/24/2011. This is an improvement over previous calibrations but is not the final update planned. The chances of this condition recurring are significantly reduced. Please refer to "Additional Information" and "Customer Information" listed below.
During cold temperature conditions a dealer may encounter a customer vehicle with a DEF low message or a speed limiting message even if the vehicle is known to be full of DEF. Additionally, the dealer may encounter a customer vehicle with a DEF range that does not reset after a refill event.
Note: This concern may also be present even if ambient temperatures are not currently less than 20F, but were previously.
The repair process in this PI will also address vehicles located in warmer climates that have DEF fluid messages that may not clear after a normal refill event. The calibration installed during this process will address concerns with vehicles that don't recognize a normal DEF fluid fill.
Note: After a refill it may be necessary to drive the vehicle for a few miles before the DEF fluid information will update on the DIC. If the vehicle has been driven for a four to five miles (6.5 to 8.0 km), the DEF Fluid Level Percentage is 100% on the Tech 2, the ignition has been turned off (allowing the ECM to go to sleep for at least 5 minutes), and the DIC still will not update, the message may have become latched into the ECM.
Recommendation/Instructions:


Important: All Engine DTCs must be diagnosed and repaired before the DEF messages are addressed. If all engine DTCs, Exhaust Fluid Quality Poor Messages, and Service Exhaust Fluid System Messages have been addressed, continue with the information found in this PI.
Note: Be sure to complete this process on a level surface.
Drain the DEF tank following SI Document ID(NNN) NNN-NNNNfor Fuel Tank Draining (Emission Reduction Fluid) the DEF tank does not need to be removed for this procedure.
Use the Tech 2 to verify the tank has been completely drained. To verify the tank is completely empty all three Reductant Level Sensors (found in Tech 2 reductant system data) must show inactive. If a level sensor is sensing fluid it will show active.
The ECM will be reprogrammed using a "two part" level reset calibration available through TIS2WEB. This replaces the previous VCI calibration that required contacting GM Techline Customer Support Center. Part one of the two part calibration will be titled "ECM DEF tank fluid level warning latched reset programming per PIP4864". Select "Replace and Reprogram" as the Programming Process. Select "Normal" as the Programming Type.

Last edited by Rvn4me; 03-31-2017 at 08:30 AM.
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Old 03-31-2017, 12:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
Schmokee
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I appreciate all the info. And it seems a reflash or just replace the ECM would seem simple, but they wanna do it cheap since it is outta their pocket. I would do a delete and call it a day if did not have the lifetime warranty on powertrain (excludes emission somehow) and the extra 75K bumper to bumper. Should I wait till all that expires on the 75K and then delete?
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Old 03-31-2017, 07:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schmokee View Post
I appreciate all the info. And it seems a reflash or just replace the ECM would seem simple, but they wanna do it cheap since it is outta their pocket.
This should be covered under GM warrenty
This special coverage covers the condition described above for a period of 10 years or 120,000 miles (193,000 km), whichever occurs first, from the date the vehicle was originally placed in service, regardless of ownership.
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Old 03-31-2017, 07:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
Schmokee
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By service you mean from the date of 2011?? Or service meaning when it first went in for the service repair??
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Old 03-31-2017, 07:32 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Since you have not even driven it yet and the dealer plus GM can not figure it out, I would take my money and find a nice more reliable 12' or newer Dmax !!
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Old 03-31-2017, 07:38 PM   #10 (permalink)
Schmokee
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They do have a 2012 DMAX there that is lifted with a pro comp lift....

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