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Old 02-05-2020, 04:30 PM   #1 (permalink)
cruzer747
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Donor motor swap

So I figured I would start a thread about an engine swap I have started as I have some questions and would love some input.

My work 94 3500 truck has a bad block (leaking H.G. carved out deck) and I bought a donor 01 3500 HD that has 116k on it and ran great minus the stock PMD starting to fail, owner stated, I drove it for weeks without issue. Seems to have plenty of power, no excessive smoke etc.

So I am halfway through the engine removal, I bought a cheap compression tester that did include the check valve but the glow plug adapter needed cutting to fit (I chucked it in a drill and cut it off with a carbide blade on a multitool to ensure a square cut and then beveled the edge as a seat. Worked well, can add some pics later).

So I had first just unplugged the fsos and it seemed to be able to still sputter so maybe the fsos is slightly leaking, I had not removed all glowplugs as another post said was not absolutely required. when it sputtered I saw >400psi in the gauge , I then unplugged the ecu fuse and proceeded with the test. 7 cranks batteries on charger spinning regular speed glowplugs in, motor slightly warm (could not drive it and its cold out!) the gauge read from 220-260. More cranking and it would increase but I limited to 7 turns. I have read that I am looking for numbers closer to the 400 range? Motor ran fine...

Anyways, once I have the exhaust out of the way I can pull the #6 glowplug and rerun the test. My main question is being that I am fairly cash strapped, what would be a good amount of things to do while it is on the engine stand? Rod & main bearings sound like good insurance. A re-ring kit is not much more not including the work but at that point I would likely need a ball hone and it is getting into time and money that I am not sure I want to/am able to afford. The details really start to ad up. My next step is to verify the gauge for accuracy. Remove the motor and get it on the engine stand and then redo the compression test and perform leakdown test somehow (need to figure out how to pump in 400psi?)

Thoughts? Thankyou. I will take some pics including the compression tester and the modified GP adapter.

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1994 GMC C3500 6.5L TD crewcab dually utility bed 311,XXX smiles 4" Diamond Eye exhaust, Hushpower muffler, Glowshift gauges, Lubrication Specialist ss oil cooler lines

Last edited by cruzer747; 02-05-2020 at 04:39 PM.
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Old 02-05-2020, 04:40 PM   #2 (permalink)
OkDually
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The higher the compression numbers, the better.
If you see 350 and below your engine is pretty tired....

First and foremost inspect the bottom end mains and webs for any cracks, condition of the crank, etc.
Brake cleaner can help expose the smallest cracks.

If the block is good then work on upgrades.
ARP studs and gaskets, rocker retainer upgrade since you in there, New timing chain,water pump, Harmonic Balancer and Pulley, etc..

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1996 K3500 6.5L,( "F" Eng #141 cast block) 5 speed manual, crewcab, dually longbed: 208,000mi.
Diamond Eye 4" Turbo Back Exhaust w/2.5" Flo-Pro Crossover
AirDog II DF165 w/ tank sock delete - XDP
TD-Max boost controller - Kennedy Diesel
OPS extension hose - Leroy Diesel
Glow Plug Harness- PT Wiring Solutions
Glowshift Maxtow EGT,Boost, Fuel gauges
Boost & Fuel Pressure Bolts - Leroy Diesel
2/0 Battery Cable Upgrade - PT Wiring Solutions
PMD w/#9 resistor and Re-Location Kit, mounted to bumper - Leroy Diesel
GM-5 Turbocharger
4.10 gear ratio
OptiLube Winter Formula


Proud member #1039 of The 3500 Dually Club


Last edited by OkDually; 02-05-2020 at 04:41 PM.
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Old 02-05-2020, 11:41 PM   #3 (permalink)
cruzer747
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Thankyou, I will get some pics when it is out and on the stand. Hopefully the bottom end looks good, if it is marginal I will likely have to throw it in and limp along until I can find something else. I can't wait to see how my jbweld deck repair looks after I get it out.
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
cruzer747
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Oh boy, so I have some questions and some pictures. I hope my questions do not come off as dumb but here goes. I am pushing my sick motor to the bitter end here while I sort out a new one. I have installed a coolant pressure gauge that I can watch as I drive and have been able to baby her pretty good with that. The truck has been venting after relatively short drives and things were getting worse and she started hydrolocking again until I learned to vent ALL the pressure after parking to prevent the pressurized coolant from being pushed back into the bad cylinder. Fun times!!!

So, knowing I will have to time a new IP as my old one is suffering from the 36 code (pulse width too long) I went ahead and got GMTD scantech ready to go. I noticed I can shut off cylinders. Now I am thinking.... other than losing 1/8 of my power, what if I shut off the offending cylinder(#2). something tells me that I would have to drop 4 to keep it rotating right.... probably 2,3,5,8.... I think I can make it without this but it was just a thought and thought I would ask.

Ok, next is the IP on the donor. I can see from the badge it is a DTech DT650003R (per website it is for 1994-2003 GM 6.5L Turbocharged Diesel*) and the * says 1994 owners must match OE number.

Being that i happen to have the 94 c3500 at a best glance I can see that it appears I have a standyne 5521.

From what I gather that would mean that I CAN run the ip on the donor motor, correct? I am sorry about the pics, I was trying my best with a scope, I can get better pics if proper ID is still not doable with these.

That said, it is a lot of work parting out a truck! Being that I am strapped for cash I thought this would be the best way to try and get a decent motor and be able to recoup my investment in the truck. The truck had pretty worn suspension and the tranny was just starting to signs of needing an overhaul. I should post some of the parts in the marketplace...

I pulled all the accessories on the stand and removed the glowplugs and did another compression test finding some cylinders would sometimes show better numbers (340+) than others but some would not so at this point I will go two ways with it... as OKDually advised (after a leakdown test) inspect the main webbing etc and if it is showing signs of old age I will be forced to clean it up and throw it in but if it still looks good I guess I ought to do all the bearings and rings and use my studs and heads from my old motor (only 10k on heads).

One final question, I redid all the plastic retainer buttons on my old trucks heads when I replaced them 10k ago but what are upgraded rocker assemblies and really I don't think the wallet will allow them unless they are worth a kidney somehow.
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Old 02-13-2020, 09:39 AM   #5 (permalink)
OkDually
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The less you operate the engine until it gets fixed, the better.

1994 was the transition year for the IP. and went to a 5521 pump.
You should be able to just swap the IP over with info you posted.

Harland Sharp makes upgraded rocker assemblies for the 6.5L but is pricey at $600.
You can view them on the Leroy Diesel website
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1996 K3500 6.5L,( "F" Eng #141 cast block) 5 speed manual, crewcab, dually longbed: 208,000mi.
Diamond Eye 4" Turbo Back Exhaust w/2.5" Flo-Pro Crossover
AirDog II DF165 w/ tank sock delete - XDP
TD-Max boost controller - Kennedy Diesel
OPS extension hose - Leroy Diesel
Glow Plug Harness- PT Wiring Solutions
Glowshift Maxtow EGT,Boost, Fuel gauges
Boost & Fuel Pressure Bolts - Leroy Diesel
2/0 Battery Cable Upgrade - PT Wiring Solutions
PMD w/#9 resistor and Re-Location Kit, mounted to bumper - Leroy Diesel
GM-5 Turbocharger
4.10 gear ratio
OptiLube Winter Formula


Proud member #1039 of The 3500 Dually Club

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Old 02-13-2020, 03:46 PM   #6 (permalink)
cruzer747
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I know about driving less but the current engine is not slated for fixing. And the more I drive it (more time I have to properly address the "new" donor motor).

I will hopefully figure out if it is rings or valves today and get some pictures of the bottom end and post em.

Thankyou for confirming the pump info. That is great news for me

Watched a vid on the rockers. Looks like I would have to wait until later down the road, maybe on the next IP install. Given the power the donor truck seemed to have it was plenty enough for me, power wise it would be great to see if I could get a chip tuned to what the donor was tuned to stock.
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Old 02-13-2020, 04:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
OkDually
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruzer747 View Post
I know about driving less but the current engine is not slated for fixing. And the more I drive it (more time I have to properly address the "new" donor motor).

I will hopefully figure out if it is rings or valves today and get some pictures of the bottom end and post em.

Thankyou for confirming the pump info. That is great news for me

Watched a vid on the rockers. Looks like I would have to wait until later down the road, maybe on the next IP install. Given the power the donor truck seemed to have it was plenty enough for me, power wise it would be great to see if I could get a chip tuned to what the donor was tuned to stock.

You should contact Kennedy Diesel or Quadstar Tuning for any EPROM tuning needs.
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1996 K3500 6.5L,( "F" Eng #141 cast block) 5 speed manual, crewcab, dually longbed: 208,000mi.
Diamond Eye 4" Turbo Back Exhaust w/2.5" Flo-Pro Crossover
AirDog II DF165 w/ tank sock delete - XDP
TD-Max boost controller - Kennedy Diesel
OPS extension hose - Leroy Diesel
Glow Plug Harness- PT Wiring Solutions
Glowshift Maxtow EGT,Boost, Fuel gauges
Boost & Fuel Pressure Bolts - Leroy Diesel
2/0 Battery Cable Upgrade - PT Wiring Solutions
PMD w/#9 resistor and Re-Location Kit, mounted to bumper - Leroy Diesel
GM-5 Turbocharger
4.10 gear ratio
OptiLube Winter Formula


Proud member #1039 of The 3500 Dually Club

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Old 02-13-2020, 04:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
Glagulator
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Rocker arm retainer mod info -
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...retainers.html
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99 CREW LONG SRW C3500 work truck 199k+ mi. orig. motor & trans 4.10, modded engine harness, new oil cooler & lines, all new front end parts and poly bushings, trans poly mount, all new brakes.
96 SUBURBAN K2500 wife's truck 210k+ mi. orig. motor & trans, 3.73...
95 C2500 Suburban 6.5td HO w/p, timing set, HB & pulley, all rubber hoses, modded engine & main harness, converted to OBD2, PMD to bumper...
95 C1500 Suburban 6.5td rebuild tranny, convert to DB2, replacing as many parts as I can.
96 C2500 Suburban 7.4L converting to 6.5td w/ DB2, 4L80, 3.73
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Old 02-14-2020, 06:32 AM   #9 (permalink)
cruzer747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glagulator View Post

Great info....while I replaced all of my retainers 10k ago this looks like a nice and affordable mod that will help prevent any runaway rockers. Quick question as far as if I were to go this route.... looks like you remove the buttons, drill the holes in the shaft all the way through, shear button tab off and drill out the tab, then bolt em in with nylocks and loctite. Being that this is done out of the motor, is there any reason not to use normal nuts and zap them with a mig (with gas no slag) and then give each weld a quick dunk to prevent any disc melting? Easy enough to grind away a tack when/if needed.


Anywho, got enough of a leakdown done to know that it is not only my exhaust valves but also the rings that are leaking. So I proceeded to pull pan and inspect. It was getting late but I found a few cracks passenger side on webbing @ bearing #2 (bigger crack) and #4 at least. The bigger of he two is somewhat frightening.... so tell it to me straight doc, how bad is it? I will clean it up a bit more and inspect bearings tomorrow. 506 block fwiw.

The leakdown showing valves and rings = less compression, worn engine, which = less stress on bottom end.... if I spruce this thing back up with rings and heads, I would imagine it would just exacerbate the situation? less money = more miles?

I am tired (its late, read through some of the threads about cracks. How is your motor holding up with the cracks glagulator?

I will be taking one more good assessment of things and then either address only leaks or go with a ring kit and use my newer heads/studs. Out of curiosity I requested a quote for the lock and stitch repair kit.
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Last edited by cruzer747; 02-14-2020 at 06:34 AM.
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Old Today, 12:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
cruzer747
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So an interesting thing I thought I would mention....I started tinkering with GMTD ScanTech now that I have it and I noticed my timing was in the positive by 1 degree. Not bad enough to throw a code but I went and adjusted the ip over and reset it to -1.76(which seemed like a good enough spot to be) and WOW what a difference in starting. Cold starts are night and day better and hot starts are improved as well. I wish I had ponied up and got this a long time ago.

That said, I think I have a gameplan with the donor motor. I am going to go with a rering kit, tear it down, lap the valves(assuming heads look ok, maybe do valve seals), hone the bores, new oil pump, and add a stud kit for the heads. I read a bunch and at this point I am going to avoid any girdle or fix for the cracks and just cross fingers and not hotrod it. I seldom tow with it but I do drive loaded to just under #8k as far as the truck goes.

With the way my current truck is going now that I am venting the built up coolant pressure after every trip I think I have at least a month to do it but money is still tight :/

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