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Old 10-09-2019, 12:41 AM   #1 (permalink)
cruzer747
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Oh give me a hose....

...where the air does not goes...

Hello folks, so I have not been here too much recently but due to some interesting things I thought I would start a new thread and see what you all thought about this. While I am happy to say that if anyone here remembers my corroded deck which I JB welded and that lasted 5k... I am almost 4k on blue devil with what seems like an intact head seal still. I do however have an odd problem and also may have figured out why my JB weld fix was so short lived.

Befroe it gave out I do recall hearing a gurgle in the heater core... but I was really busy and driving hard.... Anyhow, after the blue devil all has been well but I REALLY baby it. However I am working on a new site that has me up and down hills working it a little bit harder and I saw it was almost in the red and I thankfuly was able to pull over and cruise around until the temps came down. It had pushed a bit of coolant out and I saw I was 2 gallons shy!

I thought I had blown it again for sure. I was right at an oriely's so I rented a coolant and cap pressure tester and cap vented at the stated 16psi and the system seemed to hold for two minutes at 18psi. The main cylinder showed 0 signs of coolant when I pulled the glow plug. I had bought a block tester a few weeks prior (it had past with no signs of combustion gasses in the coolant. This time again it passed with no sign of combustion gas.

Here is where my suspicions were heightened.... at idle there was a steady bubble stream of air up through the block tester liquid..... yet it was not combustion. This stream would completely disappear when I gave it throttle. An air leak that must be on the suction side of the pump but not so bad to allow coolant out. The new hose I did at the HG job had a cheap plastic tee and crimped clamps started leaking at about 3 months. I replaced with hose clamps which stopped the leak but perhaps it can still suck air through here?! I called the dealership and they could not get an oem style nor could the autoparts store source one other than the I think Dayco brand I got the first time so I forgot about it at this time.

I ordered a new gates hose as the picture showed the oem vulcanized tee area but it showed up today with again a plastic tee and what look like some sort of heat shrink pvc clamps. I was lucky enough to sorce an old school one on ebay and will take some video for proof of my suspicions before and after swap.


Anyone here have any experience with this? So frustrating! It seemed to slowly grow an air abscess in its nether regions and then overflow some coolant... rinse repeat and you have the fixings for an overheating. Does this sound plausible? If I did not find the NOS on ebay I would have been tempted to look for a brass tee instead.

-edit- oh and one more detail, the low coolant light would not come on until too late for whatever reason in this condition.

Gates old style
s-l1600.jpg
Gates new style
IMG_20191008_192911.jpg
IMG_20191008_192742.jpg

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File Type: jpg IMG_20191008_192911.jpg (37.7 KB, 4 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_20191008_192742.jpg (55.3 KB, 3 views)
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Last edited by cruzer747; 10-09-2019 at 12:48 AM. Reason: 1 more detail
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Old 10-09-2019, 02:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
cruzer747
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So re-reading my post I realize that being tired and trying to condense so much into a post as to not bore the reader it reads really horribly. Apologies for that...

That said, my main question is if anyone else has had bad luck (coolant leaking, air intrusion) with the newer style hoses and if there are still any companies making the older all one piece style hoses.

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Old 10-09-2019, 03:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
Sirleitet
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Cut the 2 plastic strips off, take the T-hose adapter to a hydraulic shop and see if they got any brass ones in the same size with a barbed fitting on all 3 ends.


Plastic doesn't belong in the coolant system anywhere in my opinion, only metal and rubber.
Yes. Even the expension tank.
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Old 10-09-2019, 04:05 PM   #4 (permalink)
cruzer747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sirleitet View Post
Cut the 2 plastic strips off, take the T-hose adapter to a hydraulic shop and see if they got any brass ones in the same size with a barbed fitting on all 3 ends.


That is great advice, however I was lucky enough to find a new old one (rubber and metal) which will be here by weeks end.
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Old 10-21-2019, 01:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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So The lower hose was not the problem :/ trying to figure out where the coolant is going and air is coming in the system. Block test fluid does not change at all yet plenty of bubbles. Fluid changes when it sniffs actuall exhaust stream just to make sure fluid is ok. Checked the easy 6 glow plugs. Pulled the overflow. out, at the moment I did a VERY good burp and purge, clamp off 1"line to lower hose and put clear hose at nipple on radiator, then more line to let it burp upwards. Clear hose shows bubbles that seem to be in a steady rhythm.

There are two things I can think of that are the culprit and am asking for any other ideas.

1) exhaust but not enough to turn the block test solution yellow.

2) cracked head above intake valve letting coolant in the intake but not exhaust gas out. Is there an easy way to test this? Plan is to pressurize system and take the upper plenum off and run a boroscope and stethascope down all the ports....

Not sure how hard a smoke test is but I will read into that. Anyways, just thought I would throw this out there. Thanks!
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Old 10-21-2019, 09:50 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruzer747 View Post
So The lower hose was not the problem :/ trying to figure out where the coolant is going and air is coming in the system. Block test fluid does not change at all yet plenty of bubbles. Fluid changes when it sniffs actuall exhaust stream just to make sure fluid is ok. Checked the easy 6 glow plugs. Pulled the overflow. out, at the moment I did a VERY good burp and purge, clamp off 1"line to lower hose and put clear hose at nipple on radiator, then more line to let it burp upwards. Clear hose shows bubbles that seem to be in a steady rhythm.

There are two things I can think of that are the culprit and am asking for any other ideas.

1) exhaust but not enough to turn the block test solution yellow.

2) cracked head above intake valve letting coolant in the intake but not exhaust gas out. Is there an easy way to test this? Plan is to pressurize system and take the upper plenum off and run a boroscope and stethascope down all the ports....

Not sure how hard a smoke test is but I will read into that. Anyways, just thought I would throw this out there. Thanks!
Does the upper radiator hose get hard when you start the vehicle?
If it does, that is a sign of a head gasket issue
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Old 10-21-2019, 01:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkDually View Post
Does the upper radiator hose get hard when you start the vehicle?
Not like when I did have a HG issue... as it warms up it will slowly stiffen but not immediately. I will be doing some testing in a few minutes with a friend and report back what the diagnosis is if we find it.

On the list to try is pressure test, smoke test and hopefully twe sets of eyes will find it.
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Old 10-21-2019, 05:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ok, did some tests.... did not smoke test it, peeked at back of intake valves with scope, no signs of coolant. reassembled everything, radiator cap tested and could only maintain 13psi which was rated at 16psi. Replaced cap. pressurized cooling system to 15 psi and it dropped about .1 psi (needle moved verrrry small amount) over 20 minutes. Pressure does not build quickly but at close to operating temp it was approaching 15-16.... I am thinking that it is the slightest HG failure but I will drive it for a day or two to know. There is now a container catching anything that comes out of the overflow so I know if it is spilling out under normal driving rather than being sucked in.... Whatever it is at this point if it keeps up I will be doing a flush and bluedevil round two I guess.

One thing I thought was odd but i do not fully understand cooling systems I guess is that watching the pressure on the system while running, when you would rev the motor the pressure drops, not rises like I would assume with a HG failure.
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Old 11-01-2019, 11:46 PM   #9 (permalink)
cruzer747
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Okay, I figure I would wrap this post up now that I have done enough work to understand what is going on.

Looks like the blue devil is giving a little. Odd that the block tester is not registering but it is a small leak... more when warm but still very small. I installed a pressure gauge on the coolant that I could watch from the cab. I know to look for an immediate hard hose and sometimes I can drive for 30 minutes without any noticing hardening of the radiator hose. When it is totally cold it takes a while for the pressure gauge to register anything (3psi is the lowest reading on the gauge) once it does, it is a steady climb towards cap vent pressure. Hot is faster but not terribly so.

The two things that were throwing me for a loop are the fact that it would stay pressurized overnight so even when it was fully cold it would start to pressurize sooner than other days. Also while under pressure it did not seem to be able to suck coolant from the overflow. Only when I opened the cap and also the bleeder valve would the coolant from the expansion tank be allowed to go down and the bubbles come out.

Anyhow, I will try and limp on chemicals and burping for as long as I can. I thought about a short block as I got new heads a while back (when I discovered the deck problems) and at this point I am thinking long block and save the heads and studs for a future date.... Hope this helps someone. Also I think the coolant pressure gauge will be made a permanent thing, seems like a good to know bit of info.
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Old 11-02-2019, 11:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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For you and others reading this...

Three signs of headgasket/cracked coolant passage are...

1, bubbles bullowing out the overflow...

OR

2. immediate hard upper radiator hose when starting cold engine...

OR

3. Hose staying hard overnight...

If the motor is pumping exhaust gas into the coolant, pressure will build faster than normal thermal expansion.

Once the gas is in the system, it wont shrink down as much when the coolant cools off... so the pressure can often remain. A good radiator cap and hard overnight hose happens...

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Last edited by vstech; 11-02-2019 at 11:11 PM.
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