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6.5L Diesel Engine Discuss the 6.5 GM diesel engine & associated components. Automatic transmission questions & problems belong in the 4L80/85 - 4L60E - 6L90 Transmission Forum

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Old 10-01-2019, 06:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
jsajnacki
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Electronic 6.5 Turbo Diesel

This is not so much a question as it i would like it to end as a FACT. When it's compiled the knowledge needed.

The Electronic 6.5 Turbo diesel, assuming ALL GROUNDS ARE GOOD, Batteries are BRAND NEW,New Fuel Sock, New Lift Pump, New Fuel Filter Manager, New Fuel lines, New filter, new lines under the intake, feed, return, and T valve lines. Fuel pressure guage Reads 9psi at idle, new PDM. New cooler, second replacement extension harness, new OPS. But fuel lift pump is hard wired to a switch. Truck starts in varying inconsistent ways, will be a long crank, sputter. Crank, fire, fire, crank, fire, caugh, and eventually start. It will crank, fire, crank, fire, fire, crank, finally starting. Other times will crank and start like I think it should, but most times I believe it cranks more than it should before finally starting.

I have gone through many ordeals over this truck cutting off.

like the key has been shut off going down the highway at a consistent speed, turn the key off and right back on, release the clutch and keep going like nothing has happened.

It has done the same going down the road where it would take a handful of key cycles before going again.

There were times I had to coast off the road, get out and mess with the PDM or Harness and it would start again,

times I would mess with them and it wouldnt.

times I would be able to tap the pdm with something and get going again.

One of my more frustrating experiences was an 8 hour trip from florida to Alabama. Got a couple hours in, it started doing most off the above, i finally got sick of key cycles, or having to stop and mess with ****. It had become obvious that something with my PDM connections was wrong, I coasted off, got out and unplugged the PDM, took a skinny knife and bent every single PDM pin down some, plugged the extension back in and made it all the way without another problem with it cutting off.

The next thing that happened on this 8 hour trip. The first ever in this newly built monster, is we left at probably 4 in the evening. Didnt make it all that far by maybe 8 pm when I did the pin thing on the PDM. Then from then on we pulled absolutely nothing but what I would call mountains, going uphill from florida into alabama having hit the avoid highway button from Tampa. The truck ran absolutely AMAZING, pulled a 22' truck box on a tri axle fifth wheel frame loaded with my lifetime aquirement of mechanics tools, as well as my fathers and grandfathers tools. On top of the tools it got filled in left and right, front to back with our personal crap. It was more than I believe I will ever back this truck under again.

But again, it was Amazing. So muxh so that I lost a brand new tire going up a mountain in the middle of the night. That surprised me. Anyway, thats the first 250 miles of the trip.

The second 250 miles were a far throw from Amazing. I went from pulling like a champ in 3rd and 4th, temp staying where it should, truck pulling better than I could ever imagine to daylight pulling from sun up to sundown on the second half.

On this half the truck wouldnt get out of its own way for the most part, start, idle and do as it should and always has. But power loss like never before. Pulling even small hills i was down into 2nd, pulling a hill after getting a 65-70 mile an hour down hill rolling start I was down into second.

I stopped and swapped the fuel filter, gave me power back for all of a mile or two, swapped the filter back and forth gaining only minimum minutes of power back. Then comes the temperature, again now im running after lunch before dark. So its probably the hottest part of the trip.

Ths truck of course started running warmer and sometimes even hotter than I was comfortable running. Most if not all that I would contribute to the lacking power, causing the constant down shifting and higher R's on a consistent basis that day, where as before the loss of power I was able to keep the truck up and running, running consistently, which in turn kept the antifreeze flowing, fan turning, air moving, and fan clutch disengaged for the most part as the truck was at its happpiest, in its power band or comfort zone as I would puy it.

Anyway, got to our destination around 10pm, unhooked and went to bed. Unhooked from this heavy monstrosity of a trailer and all was well again. Power, temp, all back and normal.

All was well for a while, starting, running, and doing as expected without incident.

For all intents and purposes either my PDM or my extension harness was compromised causing my no starts, hard starts, and stalls. Problem solved.

A few weeks down the road I replaced the PMD Extension harness fuguring the new one bought with the PMD Cooler was failing.

Here we are 3 months after this trip. For about the last month it has begun yet again.

One thing I want to make clear as day, each and every single No Start, Hard Start, or stall, I would go directly to my fuel. Many many times I have drained and replaced every drop of fuel for fear of water or trash plugging or stopping the lift pump, or filters.

There has been times when I have had no start conditions, change the fuel filter in the FFM, and sure as ****, starts and runs as expected.

Anyway in the last month or so, it first started a problem of 2 brand new batteries dead over night. Start it the next day, run around as needed, truck proformed as it should. Next day stone cold dead again, even if shut off at lets say midnight. Tried again at 7am. Stone Cold. I tested, I found my CTSY fuse inside the cab on the drivers side of the dash to be the circuit being the Culprit. Pulled the fuse that night. Next morning finally, started as it should. Batteries good.

There is some kind of black plastic module under the dash that the CTSY fuse supplies power to that was going absolutely haywire.

Left the fuse out, used the truck as needed. It started dying, or quitting spontaneously. No rhyme or reason. For the most part it would die when I would slow, or push the clutch to turn allowing the throttle to be completely undepressed and RPM'S to drop to idle. Same thing when coming to a stop. Foot off the throttle, truck either in neutral or clutch depressed coming to a stop and it would cut off.

At this point my PMD had been an innocent by stander. After dying, if it wouldnt restart on its own. Getting out, tapping the PDM and getting back in and it was good to go again. If a no start happened when cold, tapping, or unplugging and re plugging, sometimes even trying another PDM then back to my new one would get it back going again.

This went on for a week or two, eventually after stalling or dying I was able to just leave the key where it was, give it a few awknowledged seconds and start it right back up again. Good again for a while.

I had been running the truck off a 55 gal international fuel tank for the trip from florida to alabama, the tank is obviously bigger, so the fuel guage always being in between a quarter and empty i finally decided to go back to my factory tank. So i got a brand new clean bucket, pulled my sending unit, made sure the truck tank wasnt compromised or full of water or trash, took the fuel from the larger tank into the bucket. Giving it time to settle each time in order to make sure any water or trash could settle in order to not dump said water or trash into my tank. Turns out I had about 30 gals in the big tank even though i was always getting fuel because of the guage telling me there wasnt much in it.

Said fuel filled the truck tank completely, said truck ran without incident for a couple weeks. From the time the tank was filled and hooked up until running it down to the point of needing fuel again.

Of course, I let my guard down. All was and had been well.

You know what comes now, back to problems, added fuel, ran okay without anything I needed to chase or wouldnt allow me to atleast have the confidence it would start in the morning to get me there and again at night to get me home.

It had however been running on what I would consider low fuel pressure from the lift pump. Last Friday night as im driving up and down the parking rows at walmart waiting on the fiance' to come out. It quits all together. Will not re start no matter how much I try. Find lift pump to be completely dead.

Also I find that unlike most times, when the lift pump loses power or quits, the fuel system still holds what I would call its prime or siphon. Meaning unpowered or bad lift pump gets one of the fuel lines unhooked and the fuel is still there, will run and run consistently without being pumped.

So with the pump not pumping, and the constant prime or siphon of fuel from a sufficiently filled fuel tank was no longer there.

I had to sit, have someone come get my fiance' take her home to get my many pumps, in order to replace my failed pump having caused my no start.

Installed a working pump, primed the system, made it 3-4 miles where it quit again. Started again, made it about another mile. Then no fuel being pumped out of the manager air drain, or anything into the clear filter before the lift pump.

Pulled it home with a chain. Had my uncle bring fuel saturday, bled, primed and back on the road again.

5 gallons of fuel at home, from what the truck tells me from the experience of the last 24 was empty, empty. Drove 6 miles to my uncles house to work, then an hour or so later another maybe 6 miles to the gas station, shut it off and filled a lawnmower. Started it and drove to walgreens maybe 3 miles away, off again and had to wait maybe an hour before starting again and back to uncles. That was lets say 1pm

3pm starts as it should, drive it 6 miles back home, let it idle as I load tools and materials. Jump back in. 4 miles into making it the 6 back and im dead in the water again.

The difference this time is it wont start again, won't even attempt to. So back to the fuel system. Check, prime, bleed water valve, bleed air valve, still dead.

Pull FFM, disassemble, reassemble, attempt again, was able to turn around, make it back atleast 2 miles, and quit again. Towed it home with a chain. Got into our driveway, had the misses pull me, popped the clutch and sure as **** its alive again. This being saturday night.

Left it home sunday, couldnt deal with getting stranded for a 3rd day. Got home and of course sunday evening, needed to use our only mode of transportation again. Hesitant as I have yet to find any kind of resolution. My thought process had led me to fuel again, as usual. Put all I had around for fuel in it, made it to the gas station. Put $20 in it. Went to another gas station 4 miles away and got another $60 in fuel to fill the tank, in hopes that filling the tank full again would prove it to be a fuel pickup problem. Went from the gas station to walmart, then from walmart headed home. Made it maybe 5 miles, truck quit going down hill. Hit neutral, waited, cranked, nothing. Popped clutch, nothing, coasted some more. Popped the clutch and let it roll in gear, maybe 1/4- 1/2 mile and it finally cought again and got us home.


Its now Tues Oct 1st. Monday morning I
started reading anything and everything I could, nothing found I haven't already read through. I pulled the shut off Solenoid, removed the plunger and reinstalled. I replaced the lift pump with the best of the lot, ran it for hours, shut it off and ran it some more. Swapped the PCM and ran it more, swapped it back and ran some more, could not get it to quit at all Monday.

I installed my secondary PCM which is a new unit. Drove it to the gas station, the idle on ths spare PCM seems to be low. Maybe 600 or 625 RPM. A lot of cinking and clanking with this one. Seems like the idle is to low, with the original it idles at i believe like 750rpm and sounds good. Which it does not with the spare.

After the trip to the store. Between the idle as well as the way it ran, responded, and seemed to be lacking. I decided to go back to the original PCM at the store.

Drove home without incident.

So here's my truck spelled out for the last probaby 6 months.



Back to my heading and ask at the very beginning of this post.

I will poat a second thread with just my ask and not all my personal background.

What sequence, process or processes, components, as well as properly operating components, sensors, switches, and so on does an electronic 6.5 Turbo Diesel require when the truck is sitting in the driveway idling?

Or in other words, a properly operating 6.5 begins the sequence of operation by the user or operator turning the key to the on position.

User then awknowledges the WTS light,
Once light goes out user turns the key starting the truck.

While the starting the truck, the starter motor engaged, the glow plugs will continue to be powered as the glow plug controller sees fit until such time as it starts or until it is running for x amount of time.

Once the starter is engaged, with a 6.5 diesel that is in optimum running conditons with no problems, the fuel Lift pump or LP will be powered on, either by the ignition swith being on, ignition being in the start position or by the oil pressure sensor or OPS sensing the proper pressure to engage the pump. This varies by model year.

The lift pump being powered reguardless of the process then pumps fuel to the lift pump LP, through it and up to the fuel filter manager FFM. Once the lift pump gets the fuel up to the fuel filter manager FFM it will optimally be up to 3-5 psi.

The fuel flowing into the fuel filter manager FFM, then has varying directions. The fuel filter Manager FFM has a fuel heater, A water in fuel Sensor, a fuel filter, as well as a fuel filter screen set in the fuel filter manager. The fuel will come into the backside of the fuel filter manager FFM, down where the fuel heater is, it then flows up through the center of the fuel filter manager FFM where the heater element resides up through the center of the fuel filter housing, through the plastic fuel filter screen, then once the air release is opened on top of the fuel filter, the fuel fills the housing from the center of the housing through the plastic and main filters out to both the fuel injector pump feed line and the fuel filter manager water dump T Valve.

Once the fuel filter manager FFM is full and free from air, it then puts that 5psi of air free fuel right up to the fuel feed, or input line of the Injector pump.

Once at the injector pump, the the injector pump does what to allow the entry, flow and exit of fuel through the pump and out to the injectors allowing the injectors to either fire or feed the return fuel line system?

What components, electronics, conditions and so on have to feed either the system some kind of signal, or the PCM information in order for that process of the injector pump to allow the fuel to get from the input, through the pump and out to the proper firing injector without incident?

What items not working, failing or having failed, or more so what could slip-up, make a mistake, lose signal, power or connection even momentarily that would stop the Injector pump from firing fuel into each injector as is required to fire when its meant to do so?

I apologize for the LONG post. I just have yet to find any kind of decent read or article on exactly how this thing works, what allows it to work or not work and why. Mostly because if i know, or anyone knows what allows this engine to get fuel and run when its 100% and what that circle looks like with all the different parts, then and to me only then one is capable and able to follow this engines food chain so to say and figure out exactly what is going on.

I would also state that my statement on how things work that I have written above. Like the fuel filter manager FFM may be backwards or certain parts or statements wrong especially as far as the fuel coming in and going back out of the fuel filter manager. It very well may come in from outside the main fuel filter then into the center, then through the plastic fuel fulter screen into the center where the fuel heater resides then down and out to the feed line to the pump.

Either way, i have just tried to explain to the best of my knowledge what i do know, may know, may be wrong about, but more so what i am asking

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Old 10-01-2019, 06:57 PM   #2 (permalink)
jsajnacki
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Fuel @ the IP, truck is running, what exactly is the IP doing? What could stop it?

Once at the injector pump, the the injector pump does what to allow the entry, flow and exit of fuel through the pump and out to the injectors allowing the injectors to either fire or feed the return fuel line system?

What components, electronics, conditions and so on have to feed either the system some kind of signal, or the PCM information in order for that process of the injector pump to allow the fuel to get from the input, through the pump and out to the proper firing injector without incident?

What items not working, failing or having failed, or more so what could slip-up, make a mistake, lose signal, power or connection even momentarily that would stop the Injector pump from firing fuel into each injector as is required to fire when its meant to do so?

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Old 10-01-2019, 06:58 PM   #3 (permalink)
OkDually
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When you replaced the tank sock did you install the correct AC/Delco Tank sock??


When you open the fuel cap do you get a large "Whoosh" sound?
If so, then you have a vacuum restriction in the fuel tank and need to modify your fuel cap for better venting
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Last edited by OkDually; 10-01-2019 at 07:02 PM.
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Old 10-01-2019, 07:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
OkDually
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I combined your other thread to this one to keep things simple for others to follow along

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1996 K3500 6.5L,( "F" Eng #141 cast block) 5 speed manual, crewcab, dually longbed: 208,000mi.
Diamond Eye 4" Turbo Back Exhaust w/2.5" Flo-Pro Crossover
AirDog II DF165 w/ tank sock delete - XDP
TD-Max boost controller - Kennedy Diesel
OPS extension hose - Leroy Diesel
Glow Plug Harness- PT Wiring Solutions
Glowshift Maxtow EGT,Boost, Fuel gauges
Boost & Fuel Pressure Bolts - Leroy Diesel
2/0 Battery Cable Upgrade - PT Wiring Solutions
PMD w/#9 resistor and Re-Location Kit, mounted to bumper - Leroy Diesel
GM-5 Turbocharger
4.10 gear ratio
OptiLube summer + Formula


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Old 10-02-2019, 10:25 AM   #5 (permalink)
jsajnacki
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No as i posted ive figured out what a steady flow of fuel from tank forward with or without the pump is important.

Asked this question wanting to know what mechanical components will allow proper operation or what going wrong with said components, such as the highly detailed PMD problem, can cause it not to allow fuel to injectors and not run or it to die. The PMD cant be the ONLY part or information to the PCM that would allow it to either run properly or die due to misinformation or failing part.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The reason OkD asked was because the fuel sender replacement usually comes with a "gasser" tank sock which is completely different than the "diesel" tank sock.
The "diesel" tank sock have a valve build into the sock with coarser fabric while "gasser" is just a sock without a valve. Based on experience here, the "gasser" tank sock will not cause immediate issue but by the time one forgot that they put the "gasser" sock, it usually caused issue with fuel flow/delivery.

On your question about what other components affect the fuel flow:
1. explain above
2. bad Lift Pump
3. bad OPS can cause Lift Pump not operational.
4. PMD (PMD or extension, etc.)
5. Fuel leaks.
6. Fuel filter.
7. electric to run all the electronic parts like LP, IP, PMD, etc.
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Old 10-02-2019, 02:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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As of right now there is no sock at all, getting the original factory diesel sock has proved problematic. Ive stressed over this, ive tried to find me a spin on filter with housing and water seperator i can install on the frame right after the tank, up until this point I haven't come up with nothing, so there is no sock. Fuel tank is completely full, so that should rule out any air being sucked from the tank upon driving, I have other filters in place other than the FFM. Just no sock, and no good spin on I have been able to get as of yet to have a happy substitute.
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Well another 4 days of battle. Replaced Cranksaft position sensor. I honestly believe that the whole use AC Delco parts theory on here is nothing more than the fact that installing original AC Delco could quite possibly be installed and go on as if nothing happened. Where as using BWD or other lesser than delco parts end in disappointment only because the process, steps, and actual follow through with what is clearly stated with said part is not actually done the proper way.

Just my opinion.

Going out to test drive her. See if the engine light stays out and the truck performs as it should.
Being cautiously optimistic I may end up right back here shortly bashing the heck out of BWD and more specifically their crank sensor.
Parts store showed the delco sensor but couldnt physically get it as they could the BWD. I may order an ac delco sensor online. Anyway. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Old 10-07-2019, 03:44 PM   #9 (permalink)
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ACDelco TS1020 is the new part no. for diesel sock from another thread.
Around $30 at Amazon.

ACDelco 213-337 is the CPS. Around $43 at Amazon or RockAuto.

You are correct that non ACDelco part tends to be not up to spec.
It is not perfect because they can be defective but at least if it is good, it is up to spec.
Most part that involve sensor or sender needs to be ACDelco.
For the tank sock, I have not seen any other diesel tank sock in other brand but I have not shop around, either.

IMO, if I fix things, I want to do it once so I am not gambling with non ACDelco part unless the part is easy to change without removing other parts that are in the way.
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Heath Turbo-Master
AD244 Alternator

Last edited by JMJNet; 10-07-2019 at 03:48 PM.
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Old 10-08-2019, 11:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Fuel tank is completely full, so that should rule out any air being sucked from the tank upon driving,
Air should be sucked or allowed into the tank while driving. Your truck must have a vented fuel cap. If the cap is not vented. Vacuum will build up in the tank, stop fuel flow and shut down or run poorly, from lack of fuel.. Do you have the correct fuel cap for diesel fuel? A cap for a gasser truck will not work, because they are not vented.

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Last edited by Tommygunner; 10-08-2019 at 11:54 AM.
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