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Old 06-12-2006, 04:29 PM   #1 (permalink)
heelsroll
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1994 6.5 No Hot Start - Stall fuel issue?

All,

Terrific resource, thanks to all who have contributed to all the posts I have read trying to diagnose this problem.

I have a pair of 94's, 6.5 NA engines with electronic pump. The one I'm driving daily runs beautifully EXCEPT for a hot-soak no start or stall issue. Otherwise no appreciable problems, truck glides down the road at ease, gets 20mpg in mixed driving (3.42 rear!).

Truck starts and runs fine at all times (even 30-degree overnight) except for a window about 30-75 minutes after parking it (following a 2 mile city commute). If I try to start in this period, I get great cranking but no start.

Have checked electrical connections, batteries are a month old, lp is working. Brand new correct diesel fuel cap. Changed fuel filter two weeks ago, air filter, oil and oil filter at same time.

If I get this no-start, I can get going if I crack open the fuel filter air cap, and crank until fuel runs out the top, then retighten. It might stall one more time, but will then restart and run with no problems.

I've dealt with similar issues on an old International Harvester, where I had problems with heat soak and gas really heating in the lines. Could this be a problem of air in the lines? Would my next step be to bleed the lines at the injectors?

I hope I've offered all the important information and evidenced that I've searched and tried some of the obvious solutions.

I welcome your thoughts and comments!

best,
Joel

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2x 1994 C24P trucks: N/A 6.5, 4L60E auto, 2WD, 7200GVWR, 188k and 202k miles, first civilian owner after VDOT's tender care. Excellent runners, clean bodies!
All in beautiful Charlottesville, VA, just down the road from Jefferson's Monticello.
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Old 06-12-2006, 04:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
benjammin
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Tried different PMD? Sounds like it's getting hot, then when you crank with bleeder open fuel cools inj pump body down some? Just thinking out loud.

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Old 06-12-2006, 04:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
NYCEGUY01
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my truck had the exact same prob a while back. On mine it was the pmd.
The problem will continue to get worse untill it wont run at all. To save time and agravation just get a remote mount and an extension harness and be done with it.
try
heathdiesel.com or
kennedydiesel.com
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Old 06-12-2006, 05:01 PM   #4 (permalink)
NYCEGUY01
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Tried different PMD? Sounds like it's getting hot, then when you crank with bleeder open fuel cools inj pump body down some? Just thinking out loud.



the fuel has nothing to do with it. When the fuel runs out of the filter it never reaches the pump. All that is doing is giving the pmd time to cool off with the hood open.
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Old 06-12-2006, 05:03 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks for the feedback guys, I was thinking PMD until I discovered the fuel-filter trick.

Just not sure how that cools the PMD/IP. Seems like what I'm doing is pumping fuel from the tank into the filter well and right out the top. Not sure how that would change the fuel at the pump/PMD?

Remote mount and new PMD would seem the simple but pricey fix -- this truck only cost me $1600. Still a good deal at $2100. :-)

Appreciate any other thoughts or help in understanding _why_ pumping out the filter helps.

Best,
Joel
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2x 1994 C24P trucks: N/A 6.5, 4L60E auto, 2WD, 7200GVWR, 188k and 202k miles, first civilian owner after VDOT's tender care. Excellent runners, clean bodies!
All in beautiful Charlottesville, VA, just down the road from Jefferson's Monticello.
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Old 06-12-2006, 10:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYCEGUY01 View Post
the fuel has nothing to do with it. When the fuel runs out of the filter it never reaches the pump. All that is doing is giving the pmd time to cool off with the hood open.
This squares with my understanding of the fuel flow. But I did not have the same success in restarting the first couple times this happened, when I simply lifted the hood and explored for a while. It wasn't until I cracked (open) that fuel filter bleed valve (the one on the housing) that I got a restart.

I'll drive it tomorrow and if I can duplicate the no-start I'll try simply popping the hood. I don't mind going with a remote mount PMD but I hate to throw a $500 part at a problem without being sure.

Also, forgot to mention the truck is showing no codes.

Again, thanks for this and any forthcoming input.

Best,
Joel
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2x 1994 C24P trucks: N/A 6.5, 4L60E auto, 2WD, 7200GVWR, 188k and 202k miles, first civilian owner after VDOT's tender care. Excellent runners, clean bodies!
All in beautiful Charlottesville, VA, just down the road from Jefferson's Monticello.
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Old 06-13-2006, 06:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Are you purging air from the fuel filter? If so, there may be a leak around your fuel filter bowl. Before taking off for your next trip, unscrew the fuel cap (so NO vacuum forms) and see if it will start up for you hot next time.

Could still be PMD tho.... This is one of those times where a scanner would catch it messing up.
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Old 06-13-2006, 10:50 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Maybe more of a hot start then stall problem

Well, here's my experience from today.

Start at 8:30 AM, around 50 degrees, perfect first crank startup.
Drive a mile in town, idle for 5 minutes at tire shop, drive a mile and park. Remove fuel cap.

At 9:50 or so, start truck. Runs ~20 seconds, dies.
Restart, runs 12 sec or so, dies.
Restart, runs 5 seconds.
Restart, catches and dies. Repeat.

Open hood for 8 minutes.
Restart, runs 5 or 7 seconds, dies.
Restart, catches, and dies.
Repeat.

Loosen filter vent cap, starts, dies.
Starts, dies.
Retighten cap, starts, dies.

Each start had adequate glow cycle, and at each die I can hear the lift pump run for a few seconds afterward.

In poking around under the hood, I found a weatherpak connector with nothing attached to it. It sits right in front of the air cleaner, has 3 prongs, green, gray, and black. No 'female' mate readily apparent in the area. Coincidence or relevant?

Thank you again all for the thoughts.

Best,
Joel
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2x 1994 C24P trucks: N/A 6.5, 4L60E auto, 2WD, 7200GVWR, 188k and 202k miles, first civilian owner after VDOT's tender care. Excellent runners, clean bodies!
All in beautiful Charlottesville, VA, just down the road from Jefferson's Monticello.
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Old 06-16-2006, 03:25 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Just for future reference

Thanks to all who provided possible answers.
It seems that it was indeed the FSD, a new one with kit from heath and all seems well.
Best,
Joel
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2x 1994 C24P trucks: N/A 6.5, 4L60E auto, 2WD, 7200GVWR, 188k and 202k miles, first civilian owner after VDOT's tender care. Excellent runners, clean bodies!
All in beautiful Charlottesville, VA, just down the road from Jefferson's Monticello.
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Old 06-16-2006, 04:01 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Those darned things wreak havoc on all of us!!

Didn't we hear of someone who had build a better mousetrap?

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