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Old 06-13-2016, 01:28 AM   #1 (permalink)
Z71Hobbs
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Fuel and Wastegate Problems.

Alright everyone, I am in need of some guidance here. Long time lurker and reader, but short on patience after this past weekend.

Basics. 1996 K1500, VIN S with egr, 4" Diamond eye turbo back exhaust (no soot trap), K47 Air Intake, Gutted upper intake (mostly), new AC Delco vacuum pump (reads 28-30), injectors and glow plugs all less than 1000 miles. Vacuum system is staying on truck, period. Grounds are good, batteries are good. Air filter is also in good shape. Relocated PMD, and I tried my spare out as well, no change.

Truck ran great before this past week, (occasional P0238 code) then I decided to do some upgrades. Now having lots of problems.

First, I pulled my upper and lower intake to swap them for an F setup. Plan was to put in EGR block off felpro gaskets, install F lower intake, then put S upper intake long enough to get to operating temp to swap in my KOJO tuned pcm. I found out that somewhere along the way, someone had already swapped in egr block off gaskets, and truck ran great with that setup.

While I had the lower intake pulled, I changed out the ops (since I was already in there), and I used a genuine AC Delco unit. Also installed a NOS FFM drilled out to accept the FTB 2.0 braided stainless kit. Ran new rubber fuel line from firewall hard supply fuel line to FFM, and new rubber line to water in fuel brass t-valve. Brand new oem Stanadyne fuel filter installed at the same time. I used fuel injection style hose clamps on all rubber hose connections.

So I finally got the lower f intake installed, used locktite and teflon all the appropriate bolts/studs, torqued to a hair over 31 foot pounds. I put the upper S intake back on, jumped lift pump to bleed air from FFM, then started the truck.

Truck seemed to run fine, for around 1 minute, then it started missing like it was sucking air. I could rev it up mostly fine, but then at idle it would sputter and die. Sometimes during acceleration, a slight blip. Then it started shaking, missing, and died. If I jumped the lift pump before re-starting it, it would start and run ok, then miss, sputter, and die. Fuel pump is audible during cranking and key on condition, and works to fill up the FFM.

So I started running fuel checks. First, removed fuel cap, no whoosh and no change in running condition. Then I drilled a hole in a soda bottle cap, and put a rubber hose off of the t-valve to drain fuel into the soda bottle while jumping lift pump - I got a little bit of air out, then some fuel (kinda dribbles out). However, when the truck is idling, and I open the t-valve with the soda bottle attached, it sucks the soda bottle closed - like a vacuum condition.

So on the fuel end, I think I either have a clogged fuel sock, or a weak/failing lift pump, or both. Confusing to me as the truck ran so great before. Lift pump does run, but I have never gotten an impressive flow out of the t-valve. I went ahead and ordered an EP158 as I was going to swap it out anyways. Is it possible that the old fuel pump is not capable of supplying enough fuel to work in conjunction with the new FTB kit?

In the midst of all this, DTC code P0238 keeps coming back up. I get no resistance at wastegate, and no vacuum reading on the outlet side of the wastegate solenoid. I went ahead and installed all new rubber vacuum lines from pump to solenoid cluster and to the wastegate for good measure. I unplugged the solenoid, swapped it with a junkyard one I had, and no change. Checking voltage at the plug at idle, I get 0.09 volts on the pin closest the radiator, and 13 or so volts on the pin closest to the firewall. So maybe I have a bad wastegate solenoid too.

Any help would be appreciated. I know I probably need to drop the tank next, but kinda hard for me to do at this point.

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1996 Chevrolet 1500 Z71, Vin S
Current Mods: Dual Relocated Gray PMDs to front bumper, turbo back diamond eye exhaust, K47 Airbox, FTB2.0 Stainless from Walking J, "F" intake swap, KOJO Tune.
Short Term Planned mods: New Mandrel Bent Crossover, oil cooler lines.
Long Term Planned mods: 4" RCX suspension lift with 305s.

Last edited by Z71Hobbs; 06-13-2016 at 01:30 AM.
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Old 06-13-2016, 11:09 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71Hobbs View Post
Alright everyone, I am in need of some guidance here. Long time lurker and reader, but short on patience after this past weekend.

Basics. 1996 K1500, VIN S with egr, 4" Diamond eye turbo back exhaust (no soot trap), K47 Air Intake, Gutted upper intake (mostly), new AC Delco vacuum pump (reads 28-30), injectors and glow plugs all less than 1000 miles. Vacuum system is staying on truck, period. Grounds are good, batteries are good. Air filter is also in good shape. Relocated PMD, and I tried my spare out as well, no change.

Truck ran great before this past week, (occasional P0238 code) then I decided to do some upgrades. Now having lots of problems.

First, I pulled my upper and lower intake to swap them for an F setup. Plan was to put in EGR block off felpro gaskets, install F lower intake, then put S upper intake long enough to get to operating temp to swap in my KOJO tuned pcm. I found out that somewhere along the way, someone had already swapped in egr block off gaskets, and truck ran great with that setup.

While I had the lower intake pulled, I changed out the ops (since I was already in there), and I used a genuine AC Delco unit. Also installed a NOS FFM drilled out to accept the FTB 2.0 braided stainless kit. Ran new rubber fuel line from firewall hard supply fuel line to FFM, and new rubber line to water in fuel brass t-valve. Brand new oem Stanadyne fuel filter installed at the same time. I used fuel injection style hose clamps on all rubber hose connections.

So I finally got the lower f intake installed, used locktite and teflon all the appropriate bolts/studs, torqued to a hair over 31 foot pounds. I put the upper S intake back on, jumped lift pump to bleed air from FFM, then started the truck.

Truck seemed to run fine, for around 1 minute, then it started missing like it was sucking air. I could rev it up mostly fine, but then at idle it would sputter and die. Sometimes during acceleration, a slight blip. Then it started shaking, missing, and died. If I jumped the lift pump before re-starting it, it would start and run ok, then miss, sputter, and die. Fuel pump is audible during cranking and key on condition, and works to fill up the FFM.

So I started running fuel checks. First, removed fuel cap, no whoosh and no change in running condition. Then I drilled a hole in a soda bottle cap, and put a rubber hose off of the t-valve to drain fuel into the soda bottle while jumping lift pump - I got a little bit of air out, then some fuel (kinda dribbles out). However, when the truck is idling, and I open the t-valve with the soda bottle attached, it sucks the soda bottle closed - like a vacuum condition.

So on the fuel end, I think I either have a clogged fuel sock, or a weak/failing lift pump, or both. Confusing to me as the truck ran so great before. Lift pump does run, but I have never gotten an impressive flow out of the t-valve. I went ahead and ordered an EP158 as I was going to swap it out anyways. Is it possible that the old fuel pump is not capable of supplying enough fuel to work in conjunction with the new FTB kit?

In the midst of all this, DTC code P0238 keeps coming back up. I get no resistance at wastegate, and no vacuum reading on the outlet side of the wastegate solenoid. I went ahead and installed all new rubber vacuum lines from pump to solenoid cluster and to the wastegate for good measure. I unplugged the solenoid, swapped it with a junkyard one I had, and no change. Checking voltage at the plug at idle, I get 0.09 volts on the pin closest the radiator, and 13 or so volts on the pin closest to the firewall. So maybe I have a bad wastegate solenoid too.

Any help would be appreciated. I know I probably need to drop the tank next, but kinda hard for me to do at this point.

Change out the Wastegate Solenoid for sure... also double check the connector.

When you remove the lift pump take some compressed air and blow out the line towards the fuel tank.
That should loosen anything clinging to the tank sock.. If it clears and then comes back then I would suspect the tank sock.

And what about the Screen manager down inside of the FFM?? clean it and or change it out if needed.

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Last edited by OkDually; 06-13-2016 at 11:10 AM.
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Old 06-13-2016, 11:27 AM   #3 (permalink)
Z71Hobbs
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The little filter down in the FFM was brand new, and looked clean from above, but I will give it a check. I'll probably go ahead and pull the lower up fitting and check that little screen too. Thanks for the tip on the air pressure for the tank sock, I'll give it a whirl.

I wasn't sure if I did something by replacing the ops, or if the P0238 code might have been muddying the situation.
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1996 Chevrolet 1500 Z71, Vin S
Current Mods: Dual Relocated Gray PMDs to front bumper, turbo back diamond eye exhaust, K47 Airbox, FTB2.0 Stainless from Walking J, "F" intake swap, KOJO Tune.
Short Term Planned mods: New Mandrel Bent Crossover, oil cooler lines.
Long Term Planned mods: 4" RCX suspension lift with 305s.
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Hey Hobbs,

Did you flush out your new lines and FFM by jumping the lift pump before connecting up to the IP? I'd pull off the IP supply line and shoot it into a bottle to troubleshoot with the truck not running. Something is strange if it cant even supply enough volume at idle. Did you run the same tests recently BEFORE replacing anything to know how it was working? You may just be seeing the negative effects of having low fuel volume due to the increased demand.

After tuning, my fuel supply issues never went away until I got away from the stock lift pump and filter assembly. Tinkered with it for years, at least 3 lift pumps and dedicated relay setup...still would suck it to 0 under load.

As far as the codes, make sure you have the correct plug connected to the WG solenoid. If your Vac pump is working but the wastegate sees no vacuum, either the PCM isn't telling the solenoid to work or it isn't connected somehow. Swapping stock PCM in will tell you if it is a bad flash or bad PCM.
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Quadstar Tuned '98 K3500 CCLB DRW 6.5TD 4L80E. DS4-5068S. Fully studded 506 with Optimizer heads.
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
Z71Hobbs
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Unfortunately, I didn't run the checks before tearing it apart as the truck ran great.

I've suspected a weaker lift pump for a while. I am getting fuel to the pump, and it runs great -sometimes for 1 minute, sometimes for 5 minutes, but then starts to stumble and die off. I did charge the new FFM and lines by jumping the lift pump to purge air from the top of the filter. I don't think that I am air locked, I think I have a clogged sock and weak fuel pump and that the new ftb line is just too much. I haven't installed the Kojo tune yet-I wanted the truck to be running good before I put another variable into the mix.

As far as the wastegate goes, I would on a rare occasion get the P0238 code if I drove the truck hard for a bit, but it wasn't ever consistent. It is now constant. I am going to run a test light on the wastegate solenoid tonight to make sure I don't have an electrical issue-especially with moving the wiring harnesses around so much over the last week.

From what I have read, I should connect the two terminals at the wastegate solenoid with a test light to see if it's getting power. I did get around 13 volts on the pin closest to the firewall when I grounded my multimeter to the battery. I'll also check for ground continuity. Also, I did have to put a new ground terminal on the two grounds at the rear passenger intake connection as I sheared the other ones off during disassembly. I have a video on my phone, I'll try to get it up for you all.
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1996 Chevrolet 1500 Z71, Vin S
Current Mods: Dual Relocated Gray PMDs to front bumper, turbo back diamond eye exhaust, K47 Airbox, FTB2.0 Stainless from Walking J, "F" intake swap, KOJO Tune.
Short Term Planned mods: New Mandrel Bent Crossover, oil cooler lines.
Long Term Planned mods: 4" RCX suspension lift with 305s.
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Old 06-13-2016, 12:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
Z71Hobbs
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I am also going to install a clear hose on the ip return to check for air bubbles.
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1996 Chevrolet 1500 Z71, Vin S
Current Mods: Dual Relocated Gray PMDs to front bumper, turbo back diamond eye exhaust, K47 Airbox, FTB2.0 Stainless from Walking J, "F" intake swap, KOJO Tune.
Short Term Planned mods: New Mandrel Bent Crossover, oil cooler lines.
Long Term Planned mods: 4" RCX suspension lift with 305s.
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Old 06-13-2016, 02:46 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The solenoids all have 12V constant on one wire. The other wire is PWM ground from the PCM. So yea you can test for 12v and troubleshoot those circuits respectively.
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Quadstar Tuned '94 C1500 ECSB 6.5TD 4l80E. DS4-5068S. Billet 60mm Turbo with external gate, OBDII converted w/ Bluetooth VPW data stream & Edge EAS Competition Data Logging.
Quadstar Tuned '98 K3500 CCLB DRW 6.5TD 4L80E. DS4-5068S. Fully studded 506 with Optimizer heads.
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Old 06-14-2016, 03:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Yes, check the filter sock. Here's what mine looked like
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20160315_105711_resized (1).jpg (59.0 KB, 3 views)
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Old 06-14-2016, 04:03 PM   #9 (permalink)
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https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-...about-yet.html

Don't know if you read my thread but went through the same process with the whole tank replacement, might be helpful for making decisions on parts etc.

Wastegate problems: check your MAP sensor is plugged in and the connector is in good condition. I left mine unplugged by accident after pulling the upper intake once... It will diagnose like a bad boost solenoid. I have a spare boost solenoid but I imagine you are pretty far away from me.

If you blow down the line hard enough, it will blow the sock right off... But you'll want to have a filter in between your LP and the tank because a lot of junk will come through!
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1996 GMC K1500xcab 6.5 3.73 4L80E rear bags Bought at 99k 12/13 now 138k 9/17
Repairs:
BWD OPS 1/14 Heath PMD kit 3/14 Airtex boost solenoid 6/14 Lube Specialist cooler lines and cooler, rad support mounts, Pro Comp ES9000 Shocks, rear brakes 7/14 Interstate Batts, Cooper AT3 tires, Hummer H3 rims, stepper motor 4x4, coolant flush 11/14 Stabilizer bar links, soot trap gasket 9/15 Dorman tank, sending unit/sock delete, filler neck, filler neck, hose, Leroy's Tank Barbs, SAE30R9 lines, WIX filter head and prefilter with brackets by paleyjim, intake manifold gaskets 3/16 Used transmission, dipstick tube, fluid flush, drain plug pan by paleyjim, power steering fluid flush, transfer case seals and fluid 9/16 Duraterms 11/16 Ball Joints and wheel bearing drivers side. Powerstop pads, lubed sliders 4/17 AD244, Leroy's Flight Systems PMD 9/17
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Old 06-14-2016, 05:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
Z71Hobbs
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Thanks for the tip on the maps sensors. Last I checked, they were all plugged in. I picked up a wastegate solenoid last night from gm, but didn't have a chance to mess with the the truck. I ordered a carter 74000 lift pump based on some other positive reviews, and will probably drop the tank this weekend. The hoses should be replaced anyways.

But the more I think about this, I believe I have two separate issues going on.

__________________
1996 Chevrolet 1500 Z71, Vin S
Current Mods: Dual Relocated Gray PMDs to front bumper, turbo back diamond eye exhaust, K47 Airbox, FTB2.0 Stainless from Walking J, "F" intake swap, KOJO Tune.
Short Term Planned mods: New Mandrel Bent Crossover, oil cooler lines.
Long Term Planned mods: 4" RCX suspension lift with 305s.
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