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6.5L Diesel Engine Discuss the 6.5 GM diesel engine & associated components. Automatic transmission questions & problems belong in the 4L80/85 - 4L60E - 6L90 Transmission Forum

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Old 12-30-2015, 01:29 PM   #11 (permalink)
MyShibby65TD
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Thanks for the follow up Paveltolz. I decided to go the route of Glagulator posted. I found everything but the washers at my local parts store, and swapped out standard hex head bolts with flange hex heads and metal locking nuts instead of nylon. I'll be using loctite as added insurance.

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2005 LLY 3500 CC/LB SRW 4x4 208,000 miles
EGR blocker plate, ARP head studs, grade C head gaskets, LBZ mouth piece, no tuning

SOLD 1993 6.5L TD K2500, EC/LB, 4x4, Auto, 252,000 miles
4" DE, trans cooler & 8AN lines, 10AN oil cooler lines, nylon fuel lines, AD244, LB7 fan, Medallion marine injectors, OPS relay, glow plug override, OPS override
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Old 01-04-2016, 07:10 PM   #12 (permalink)
MyShibby65TD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glagulator View Post
Here are instructions to replace the buttons with bolts.


https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-...ternative.html
So I ordered the thick washers from McMaster Carr since they were the only carriers I could find and didn't feel like stacking 3 normal washers together, but I have a concern. Has anyone actually done the above and had them be reliable for many many miles?

My concern is the ID of the washers have ~1/16" slack around the bolt, allowing the washer to go side to side. To add to this, the washer is ~1/16" less OD than the plastic buttons. This allows the rocker to slide further side to side, and I'm worried it'll be too much at some point, the rocker will bind, and all hell will break loose. Am I being paranoid about this, or are there better alternatives yet?

Paveltolz, I really like the setup you posted, but I'm not forking over hundreds to a machine shop to do it, and I need to get the truck running again. If you happen to know what exactly is in the picture (names of parts) that'd help a lot. They sort of look like screw posts used in wood with a cap underneath to widen/protect them.

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2005 LLY 3500 CC/LB SRW 4x4 208,000 miles
EGR blocker plate, ARP head studs, grade C head gaskets, LBZ mouth piece, no tuning

SOLD 1993 6.5L TD K2500, EC/LB, 4x4, Auto, 252,000 miles
4" DE, trans cooler & 8AN lines, 10AN oil cooler lines, nylon fuel lines, AD244, LB7 fan, Medallion marine injectors, OPS relay, glow plug override, OPS override

Last edited by MyShibby65TD; 01-04-2016 at 07:13 PM.
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Old 01-04-2016, 07:46 PM   #13 (permalink)
MyShibby65TD
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Also, anyone see valve tip wear like this before? The rocker arm is really good looking, doesn't look like it took any damage. There were some metal shavings sitting around the lock.
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__________________
2005 LLY 3500 CC/LB SRW 4x4 208,000 miles
EGR blocker plate, ARP head studs, grade C head gaskets, LBZ mouth piece, no tuning

SOLD 1993 6.5L TD K2500, EC/LB, 4x4, Auto, 252,000 miles
4" DE, trans cooler & 8AN lines, 10AN oil cooler lines, nylon fuel lines, AD244, LB7 fan, Medallion marine injectors, OPS relay, glow plug override, OPS override
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Old 01-04-2016, 07:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
dieselolds
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Olds 5.7 Diesel engines sometimes would cause valve tip wear like that.I saw it many times while I used to work on them.Those engines used to pound valve tips to death.Probably the only thing that could prevent that from happening would be to use lash caps.They are usually found on industrial diesel engines like Perkins for instance.Some high performance engines use them as well.They are readily available on eBay.You can look them up for 3/8 or 11/32 valve sizes.I forget at the moment what size diameter the 6.2/6.5 valves are.I'm sure someone will reveal the answer.
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1996 GMC Sierra ext.cab Z71....with new genuine GM 6.2 660 short block,4L80E/6.5TD cylinder heads,DS4 5521S,82' 6.2 rocker arms,acdelco TP1069/Racor 20S fuel filters,4" diamond eye exhaust,3.73 G80 locker,stanadyne 37818 injectors

1996 Chevy K1500 Z71.....with '99 6.5 506 goodwrench van engine,88-93 6.2 diesel Napa y-pipe,'87 700R4,acdelco TP630F/Racor 20S fuel filters,Bosch non-turbo injectors,stanadyne blue tag 5088

1993 Chevy K1500 Z71...with 97' 6.5 TD 506 block,82' 6.2 rocker arms,stanadyne 37818 injectors,stanadyne blue tag 4911,DSG girdle,reman 700R4,Banks boost/pyrometer gauges,acdelco TP1069/TP943 fuel filter system,4 diamond eye exhaust/2 piece crossover

2008 Mercedes Benz E320 3.0 V6 turbo diesel

2013 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 TDI

Last edited by dieselolds; 01-04-2016 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 01-04-2016, 07:59 PM   #15 (permalink)
dieselolds
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyShibby65TD View Post
So I ordered the thick washers from McMaster Carr since they were the only carriers I could find and didn't feel like stacking 3 normal washers together, but I have a concern. Has anyone actually done the above and had them be reliable for many many miles?

My concern is the ID of the washers have ~1/16" slack around the bolt, allowing the washer to go side to side. To add to this, the washer is ~1/16" less OD than the plastic buttons. This allows the rocker to slide further side to side, and I'm worried it'll be too much at some point, the rocker will bind, and all hell will break loose. Am I being paranoid about this, or are there better alternatives yet?

Paveltolz, I really like the setup you posted, but I'm not forking over hundreds to a machine shop to do it, and I need to get the truck running again. If you happen to know what exactly is in the picture (names of parts) that'd help a lot. They sort of look like screw posts used in wood with a cap underneath to widen/protect them.
I was about to go with the method you chose but I later changed my mind and swapped them back out for early 80s 6.2 cast rocker arms.I had new 85 and later GM rocker arms mounted on clevite rocker shafts.I put about 3 hrs running time on them but I didn't like the smaller diameter washers that I used so I wanted to avoid any problems that could arise.For that reason I took them back off.I always liked the older rocker arm setup.Seems much more robust.
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1996 GMC Sierra ext.cab Z71....with new genuine GM 6.2 660 short block,4L80E/6.5TD cylinder heads,DS4 5521S,82' 6.2 rocker arms,acdelco TP1069/Racor 20S fuel filters,4" diamond eye exhaust,3.73 G80 locker,stanadyne 37818 injectors

1996 Chevy K1500 Z71.....with '99 6.5 506 goodwrench van engine,88-93 6.2 diesel Napa y-pipe,'87 700R4,acdelco TP630F/Racor 20S fuel filters,Bosch non-turbo injectors,stanadyne blue tag 5088

1993 Chevy K1500 Z71...with 97' 6.5 TD 506 block,82' 6.2 rocker arms,stanadyne 37818 injectors,stanadyne blue tag 4911,DSG girdle,reman 700R4,Banks boost/pyrometer gauges,acdelco TP1069/TP943 fuel filter system,4 diamond eye exhaust/2 piece crossover

2008 Mercedes Benz E320 3.0 V6 turbo diesel

2013 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 TDI
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:34 PM   #16 (permalink)
MyShibby65TD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dieselolds View Post
I was about to go with the method you chose but I later changed my mind and swapped them back out for early 80s 6.2 cast rocker arms.I had new 85 and later GM rocker arms mounted on clevite rocker shafts.I put about 3 hrs running time on them but I didn't like the smaller diameter washers that I used so I wanted to avoid any problems that could arise.For that reason I took them back off.I always liked the older rocker arm setup.Seems much more robust.
That's the ultimate solution I would like, but I'm not keen on spending more and more money on this truck. I've sank ~$4k into it and its worth maybe half that. If it lasts me the next 5 years until duramax's come down a little more, and I can sell it I'll be happy.

The valve lash makes sense. I think I'll leave it and forgo the lash caps. I've seen them before, and don't know why I didn't think of it.

Also, my final solution that I'm going with (because I've started assembling and there's no going back now) was to drill a 1/4" hole through the nylon buttons and use the grade 8 bolts/locks. The nylon is actually pretty strong, and really is only prone to snapping at the neck where it is inserted into the rocker shaft. Eliminates the weak point, plus leaves the correct spacing and nylon rubbing surface for the arm.
__________________
2005 LLY 3500 CC/LB SRW 4x4 208,000 miles
EGR blocker plate, ARP head studs, grade C head gaskets, LBZ mouth piece, no tuning

SOLD 1993 6.5L TD K2500, EC/LB, 4x4, Auto, 252,000 miles
4" DE, trans cooler & 8AN lines, 10AN oil cooler lines, nylon fuel lines, AD244, LB7 fan, Medallion marine injectors, OPS relay, glow plug override, OPS override

Last edited by MyShibby65TD; 01-04-2016 at 09:35 PM.
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Old 01-04-2016, 09:43 PM   #17 (permalink)
dieselolds
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I like your idea of using the nylon buttons over.I hadn't thought of doing it that way.When your finished doing that would you mind posting a pic or two of how it looks?I'm sure other members would be interested in that.I know the feeling of sinking money into these old trucks.I'm the same way myself.I have a liking for the 88-98 body style.The trucks I have aren't worth much either but I have a ton of money gone into each of them especially the blue truck I have.The red truck I have would come in second.
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1996 GMC Sierra ext.cab Z71....with new genuine GM 6.2 660 short block,4L80E/6.5TD cylinder heads,DS4 5521S,82' 6.2 rocker arms,acdelco TP1069/Racor 20S fuel filters,4" diamond eye exhaust,3.73 G80 locker,stanadyne 37818 injectors

1996 Chevy K1500 Z71.....with '99 6.5 506 goodwrench van engine,88-93 6.2 diesel Napa y-pipe,'87 700R4,acdelco TP630F/Racor 20S fuel filters,Bosch non-turbo injectors,stanadyne blue tag 5088

1993 Chevy K1500 Z71...with 97' 6.5 TD 506 block,82' 6.2 rocker arms,stanadyne 37818 injectors,stanadyne blue tag 4911,DSG girdle,reman 700R4,Banks boost/pyrometer gauges,acdelco TP1069/TP943 fuel filter system,4 diamond eye exhaust/2 piece crossover

2008 Mercedes Benz E320 3.0 V6 turbo diesel

2013 Volkswagen Passat 2.0 TDI
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:23 PM   #18 (permalink)
MyShibby65TD
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Finished the install. In addition to the guide previously posted here are some things I did.

- Number the rockers, and mark the direction of the shaft with a sharpie or good marker. It's not hard to keep track of things if done one shaft at a time, but numbering them helps prevent stupid mistakes if you're trying to put it back together the same way.

- If you really don't plan on taking things apart, some loktite can't hurt.

- I left the bolts slightly loose. Enough to spin the nylon washer (old button drilled out) but not enough to lift it any. The bolt turns slightly and then stops due to the corners on the lock nut on the inside of the shaft. I feel this most closely resembles the original all nylon button's functionality. I felt tightening the bolt onto the nylon would stress it and be more likely to prematurely crack or fail.

- Holding the nut on the inside of the shaft with a screw driver as said in the previously posted guide works, but you'll need a good driver and some torque to hold it against the locking crimps of the nut.

- Lift the screws onto the bolts on the inside of the shaft with a screw driver works best to get them started.

And finally, pictures.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 20160105_192151.jpg (71.3 KB, 38 views)
File Type: jpg 20160105_171759.jpg (33.9 KB, 30 views)
File Type: jpg 20160105_174117.jpg (94.7 KB, 30 views)
__________________
2005 LLY 3500 CC/LB SRW 4x4 208,000 miles
EGR blocker plate, ARP head studs, grade C head gaskets, LBZ mouth piece, no tuning

SOLD 1993 6.5L TD K2500, EC/LB, 4x4, Auto, 252,000 miles
4" DE, trans cooler & 8AN lines, 10AN oil cooler lines, nylon fuel lines, AD244, LB7 fan, Medallion marine injectors, OPS relay, glow plug override, OPS override
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Old 01-05-2016, 09:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
Glagulator
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Well done. Never thought of that solution either.
I have thought that small brass freeze plugs might work but have not researched it yet.
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96 SUBURBAN K2500 wife's truck 210k+ mi. orig. motor & trans, 3.73...
95 C2500 Suburban 6.5td HO w/p, timing set, HB & pulley, all rubber hoses, modded engine & main harness, converted to OBD2, PMD to bumper...
95 C1500 Suburban 6.5td rebuild tranny, convert to DB2, replacing as many parts as I can.
96 C2500 Suburban 7.4L converting to 6.5td w/ DB2, 4L80, 3.73
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Old 01-05-2016, 11:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
Freddyack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MyShibby65TD View Post
Finished the install. In addition to the guide previously posted here are some things I did.

- Number the rockers, and mark the direction of the shaft with a sharpie or good marker. It's not hard to keep track of things if done one shaft at a time, but numbering them helps prevent stupid mistakes if you're trying to put it back together the same way.

- If you really don't plan on taking things apart, some loktite can't hurt.

- I left the bolts slightly loose. Enough to spin the nylon washer (old button drilled out) but not enough to lift it any. The bolt turns slightly and then stops due to the corners on the lock nut on the inside of the shaft. I feel this most closely resembles the original all nylon button's functionality. I felt tightening the bolt onto the nylon would stress it and be more likely to prematurely crack or fail.

- Holding the nut on the inside of the shaft with a screw driver as said in the previously posted guide works, but you'll need a good driver and some torque to hold it against the locking crimps of the nut.

- Lift the screws onto the bolts on the inside of the shaft with a screw driver works best to get them started.

And finally, pictures.
Added to the DIY section of the FAQs.

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