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6.5/6.2 High Performance Engine Modifications High Performance Turbocharger and Engine Related Modifications Discussion Forum - Specific To The GM 6.2 & 6.5 Diesel Engine.

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Old 05-18-2016, 04:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
pocale
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Project: supercharged 6.2

Hi all,

I finally got the goodie i have been dreaming about: Eaton M112 supercharger from a V8 Jaguar. It will boost my '87 C10 6.2.




Superchargers are not common in 4 stroke diesels, i know, but for me that is just a reason to supercharge. Why? Why not?

Other than doing something uncommon, i prefer SC because
i neved had one before,
i don't like turbo whistle and i do like v8 true duals sound,
i don't like on-off triggered turbo boost but i do like flat torque curve like in a big block,
project with SC is more interesting than playing with turbo exhaust pipes,
contemporary SC with a boost by-pass the parasitic energy loss is manageable,
superchargers have bigger wow-factor

The plan is to mount the SC on a side of the engine and route a pressure tube from there. For by-pass i am looking for a small (~2"/50mm) throttlebody (tips where to find?) and will program a micro-controller to run a model airplane servo that actuates the valve. Micro-controller inputs are TPS and TCC. So that on idle and TCC engaged the by-pass is mostly open (0.5 - 1psi) , and per TPS the boost gradually increases up to ~10psi. The boost curve adjustment will be try&error.

I think i will mig-weld the SC crank pulley to front of the accessory pulley. However, it is surpringly hard to find a steel (weldable) pulley with 8 grooves and diameter 8 - 9". The pulley on SC is 8-groove 2.8". Eaton M112 can take 12krpm and flash 14krpm. So at 3800 rpm engine redline and 9" crank pulley would equal 12200 rpms at SC. i think a 6-groove pulley and belt would work too, although SC end has 8 grooves pulley. What do you think?

Do you know any OEM pulleys to look for? The pulley diameters are not listed on replacement parts. The pulleys that Supercharger companies offer are ridiculous priced, like $300 for a metal ring. And they are usually aluminium which makes mig-weld impossible, and there are hardly any big enough diameter pulleys, due to the fact that gassers rev higher. Any tips to find the pulley are appreciated.

I might update the thread with news and pics when progress, if you're interested.

Any comments and ideas are welcome for the project.
Thanks

.

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Last edited by pocale; 05-18-2016 at 05:21 PM. Reason: typo
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Old 05-18-2016, 05:38 PM   #2 (permalink)
donny01tj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pocale View Post
Hi all,

I think i will mig-weld the SC crank pulley to front of the accessory pulley. However, it is surpringly hard to find a steel (weldable) pulley with 8 grooves and diameter 8 - 9". The pulley on SC is 8-groove 2.8". Eaton M112 can take 12krpm and flash 14krpm. So at 3800 rpm engine redline and 9" crank pulley would equal 12200 rpms at SC. i think a 6-groove pulley would work too, although SC has 8 grooves. What do you think?
I think you will have to have a pulley custom machined for you. I have never seen a production 6 or 8 groove pulley that large and V pulleys that size are cast.

Dorman makes a 6 groove 6.5" pn# 300-124 which is a metal PS pulley, but you wont be able to push 10 psi without the 6 groove belt slipping and you will probably have trouble with the 8 groove slipping up top.

I would forgo the serpentine setup and implement a cog style off the crank instead. That way you only have to design it once.

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Old 05-18-2016, 06:30 PM   #3 (permalink)
chevy410
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Look up Belt source in Beaumont tx. Woody can get just about anything belt related. Including cast steel pulleys that are weld able.
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Old 05-18-2016, 10:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
DieselPro
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Might try electro-magnetic clutch activation. Similar to AC clutch. Similar to the one found on Volvo marine diesel.
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:11 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselPro View Post
Might try electro-magnetic clutch activation. Similar to AC clutch. Similar to the one found on Volvo marine diesel.
Yeah, go mad-max style!
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Have you done any CFM comparisons on this S/C vs what the 6.5 requires?

There was a HMMWV/Marine S/C setup back in the day. Would really help if you could locate that pulley or borrow one to copy.
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Old 05-19-2016, 09:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
alpacalips
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Cool project. I have no help for ya, but I'll be interested to see how you work it out.

If all else fails, you could buy one of these!
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Old 05-19-2016, 12:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Hi,

thanks for comments.

I found a $55 Holley 6-groove 6.7" power steering steel pulley at Summit.

Then i played with math formulas to calculate supercharger pressure.
Google found a few sample equations and online calculators.
The outcome of the calculations is that i realized while i don't know the Volumetric
efficiency of the engine and charger setup,
the boost estimation is a shot in the dark. depending on the flow efficiency
the equations result a few psi up to 10+ psi of boost.


quote:
"the 0.9 factor is the ~VE for the typical intake tract under non-boosted conditions.
The number 3,456 is just a mathematical factor to make the units come out properly.

CID*rpm/3,456*(.9) = engine airflow requirement
((blower CFM/airflow required)*14.7) – 14.7 = boost

So, as an example if you have a 350 and a 1,000cfm blower and want to make peak boost at 6,000rpm:
350*6,000/3,456 = 607*.9 = 546
1,000/546 = 1.83*14.7 = 26.9 – 14.7 = 12.2psi is the approximate max boost at 6,000rpm with 1,000cfm."


in my case
379ci * 3600rpm / 3456 * .85 [eng VE] = 336cfm

Eaton M112 is 112 in3 = 0.065 ft3, so
.065 ft3 * 2.4 [pulley ratio] * 3600rpm * .9 [SC VE] = 505cfm
hence
505cfm / 336cfm * 14.7 - 14.7 = 7.4psi

consider SC VE 80% and calculated boost drops to 4.9psi, on the other hand
if SC VE 100% and Engine VE 80% and the boost jumps up to 11.4psi

If you have comments to the calculation and VE estimation, please share

~7psi estimation with 2.4 pulley ratio (w/ 6.7" crank pulley) is fair enough for the beginning.
I'll order the 6.7" Holley pulley and start from there.
When i see what this pulley setup gives boost, i can estimate further the
right cu$$$tom manufactured 8-groove pulley size.

The mad-max style magnetic clutch SC pulley would be cool However,
that's too much trouble for me. The pressure bypass does almost the same but smoother.

When i receive the lower pulley and have it placed i can begin to mount the SC and line up the pulleys

Thanks.
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Last edited by pocale; 05-19-2016 at 12:56 PM. Reason: ...
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Old 07-12-2016, 07:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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been busy making my living, so no much progress with this, however a little update

ditched the original fan and shroud replaced by electric fans 14 and 16" to make room for the charger belt. the fan temp sender is on rad lower hose, to where i fabricted an adapter. two circuit sensor Facet 7.5604 / 82-77C (180-170F) and 87-82C (189-180F), works just perfect with 88C (190F) thermostat, temp gauge stays steady. one fan hits in when idling a while, the other fan has been on only once when i was moving a heavy trailer back and forth on a yard.

.
.

as i don't have a lathe, the Holley pulley and original V-belt pulley are on a machine shop, they will lathe and turn an aluminium adapter to bind the pulleys together. the adapter needs to be 1" thick in order to have SC belt clearance away from water pump. i should have the pulley setup back this week.



.
.
the plan is to mount the charger driver side of the intake, on top of the engine, and route the pressure tube from there. it is a bit tight fit, but should be doable. the second option is passenger side below alternator.


.
.

One question came up too... how should the engine breathing be designed? now it breaths to the intake which has the (minimal diesel) vacuum. when the intake is pressurized the breather system might not work as mr General Motor designed it, and ie might push oil out on the crank lip seals.
Ideas, or is it a problem overall? How it is engineered on turbo 6.5 or 6.2 banks?

thanks
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Last edited by pocale; 07-12-2016 at 07:54 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 07-12-2016, 11:47 AM   #10 (permalink)
Catrik
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So you are keeping the charger under hood? I have planned as SC too, thought about making a custom intake with water-to-air cooler.

I think turbos put the breather in the intake before turbo. Which means you get oil soot all over the insides of turbo. Some have made catch cans which helps catching most of the oil from it.

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