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6.5L Diesel Engine Discuss the 6.5 GM diesel engine & associated components. Automatic transmission questions & problems belong in the 4L80/85 - 4L60E - 6L90 Transmission Forum

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Old 05-11-2009, 12:19 PM   #1 (permalink)
preacherglenn
 
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runaway on startup

I searched through different threads and couldn't find anyone having the same problem that I'm experiencing. Truck was working great when it was parked last week. It sat for 2 or 3 days and when I went to use it this weekend I experinced a runaway condition on startup. It ran a second or two and shut off itself. It restarted immediately 2 more times with the same results. The fourth time it started and ran normally. I did not drive it for fear of what might happen. Yesterday I tried again with more or less the same results. Today it's working perfectly. I did read where someone said a bad PMD will not cause a runaway condition. I guess that leaves the pump. Any insight would be apprecaited. I've included the information below that I think might be helpful.

0. Describe in detail the problem you are having. Please be as descriptive as possible. Engine will occassionally start in a runaway condition for 1 or 2 seconds then shut off. It may do this 2 or 3 times then start and run normal.
1. Does the engine crank, or 'turn over'? yes
1a. Does the engine start and run? yes
1a1. If the engine does not start - Crack injector line: do you have fuel? Yes/No
1b. Do you have a Wait To Start Light & the amount of time (seconds) lit. yes - 10 sec.?
1c. Ambient Condition (temperature outside indicate F or C) _55 F____
1d. Engine Cranking speed (if you have an accurate tachometer).
1e. Are you experiencing stalling? yes
1f. If Stalling, describe (upon startup only, down the road, hit a bump etc) start up only
1g. If Stalling, do you notice loss of dash or instruments?
-note if experiencing stalling,you must indicate PMD location in #24.

1h. Check turbo inlet and air filter for obstructions. Cone filters have lost disk and stopped air to turbo. OK
1i. In a no-hot start, pour a bottle of room-temp water on the injection pump. Does it start now? yes/no
1.1 Lift pump test - describe results
2. Service Engine Light while running?- on/off/intermittent
2a. Service Engine light does glow during start/cranking/bulb check: Yes/No
3. Model year 1997
3a. Odometer reading (indicate if in miles or km) 135,000 mi.
3b. Miles on major engine components if been replaced (example Injection pump) 7,000 mi. on rebuilt engine
3c. Indicate the model number on the Injection pump (starts DS4 or DB2......)
4. Have you scanned for engine codes? (varies by pre/post 96) yes/no yes
5. List exact results on engine codes: P0219D
6. Air Filter condition (visual check) like new
7. Fuel filter condition (freshly changed/condition unknown/mileage since changed) 1000 mi. ago
8. Condition of Battery terminal connections (removed, cleaned and tightened) cleaned
8a. Known condition and age of the batteries. 9 months old
8b. Are batteries of differing age or are they a matched set? matched
8c. Condition of Major Grounds. (same drill as batt - removed, cleaned, retightened)
9. Upon cold start, does the radiator hose get hard quickly? Yes/no no
10. Upon cold start, do you have excessive white smoke? Yes/no no
11. Do you have excessive cranking time before the engine starts? no
12. Have you used the block heater, and does this effect engine starting?(only try for starting problems)
13. During hard acceleration, do you have excessive black smoke? Yes/no no
14. Do you have any unusual exhaust smoke issues? no
15. Turbo check out - pass/fail
16. Do you have an EGR on the engine? (An F or an S engine code 8th VIN digit) F
17. Indicate if you know if its a 1500, 2500, 2500HD, 3500, 3500HD. 2500
18. Indicate fuel that you are using: Bio-diesel, #2 Diesel, #1Diesel, SVO/WVO, other #2 diesel
18a. If running a VO (Veggie Oil fuel) setup, indicate details of your conversion (homemade, or packaged system)
19. Are you using any fuel additives? If so, please list.
20. Please indicate geographic region you are in: (example: Texas or Canada) Maine
21. Do you have any service history available that might pertain to the problem you are having? no
22. Please indicate any modifications to the vehicle that might help us diagnose better. none
23. Upon unscrewing the fuel cap, do you have a large vacuum formed in the tank? yes/no no
24. Location of PMD/FSD? On the pump/remoted over intake/remoted out of engine bay (please specify placement specifically) on the pump
24a. If remote mounted, describe wiring harness (homemade or purchased from a vendor?)
24b. Indicate the location and condition of the FSD/IP grounding wire.
25. Are ALL glow plugs in proper working order as per this thread?

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Old 05-11-2009, 12:30 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Runaway conditions are caused by a faulty ip, sounds like time for a rebuild..........

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Old 05-11-2009, 10:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
94C1500
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Runaway engine can be caused by a PMD. the PMD tells the IP what to do, and the PCM tells the PMD what to do. It could be that your APP (electronic fuel pedal) is telling the PCM you are requesting full throttle. try unplugging the APP and starting and see if you ever get the condition.

The only power that the IP gets is from the PMD to control the fuel solenoid. So if it was a broken armature shaft in the IP I dont think it would work normally sometimes. Possibly stuck open fuel solenoids? Are you using lubrication in the fuel with ULSD?

If you have access to the red wire that goes from PMD pin B to the IP you could probe into that line and see if the PMD is sending the signal to the IP to rev. Normally the voltage on that line is 1.2VAC cranking, 1.65VAC idle, but if it receives signal from PCM it will jump to 5VAC at idle and give you 3000+ RPM. Notice that it is an AC voltage. I shaved away a little insullation and put a clip on it and monitored it through the windshield while I reved and drove around a little.
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Last edited by 94C1500; 05-11-2009 at 10:54 PM.
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Old 05-12-2009, 07:49 AM   #4 (permalink)
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What kind of oil do you use, and could it be getting into the intake?
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Old 05-12-2009, 12:34 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 710 Burner View Post
What kind of oil do you use, and could it be getting into the intake?
take a look at the CDR ( passenger side valve cover, there is a rubber hose that goes to the intake. see if its flooding the intake with oil )
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Old 05-14-2009, 06:30 PM   #6 (permalink)
ishiboo
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Wouldn't a sufficient amount of engine oil capable of racing the engine produce a lot of noticeable black smoke?

(Just wondering as his responses indicate there is none)
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Old 05-14-2009, 06:44 PM   #7 (permalink)
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it would produce blue smoke
and not neccesarily...if it's running away, so is the turbo likely
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Old 05-14-2009, 06:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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i know you have cleaned the major grounds but have you gone through and done the no so major grounds ? IP's for instance
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:19 PM   #9 (permalink)
ishiboo
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The IP is a massive block of metal grounded to a massive block of metal, why would GM have a separate ground? That'd be like having a negative cable from the alternator
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Old 05-14-2009, 07:24 PM   #10 (permalink)
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ishiboo...that may be so...but it does indeed have a ground...and it is indeed neccesary...

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