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-   -   No Start, No WTS light¯.It IS the grounds! (https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63-gm-diesel-engines/21-6-5l-diesel-engine/157085-no-start-no-wts-light-grounds.html)

lcgarage 05-16-2007 10:08 PM

No Start, No WTS light….It IS the grounds!
 
...and details on my Ignition Switch replacement and removal of aftermarket security system

It’s been weeks not able to start truck. I’ve been here reading, and on the weekends applying what I’ve learned from this forum to my 97’ K3500.
Cleaning/ Replacing Grounds fixed the problem!

Repair Details

97’ GMC K3500 With “NO START”

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3..._97NoStart.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



From from diagnostic table
1. Does the engine Turn over? YES
1a. Does the engine start? NO
1b. Do you have a Wait To Start Light & duration lit? NO

-There were no blown fuses.
-The ECT temp sensors measured good at 3.6k on a 65degF day. (Reference table lists 3520ohms at 68F)

Now I know the PCM is NOT getting power (or gnd). A second indicator was the Code reader, which was not able to establish contact with PCM.

CLEAN /REPLACE GROUNDS
-The battery connections were in bad shape


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...rBattCable.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


Grounds were next. The aux gnd to eng had to be replaced

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...AuxGndCorr.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


Aux Gnd After repair/ cleaning

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ndReplaced.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


Rear Engine GND Before cleaning

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...earGndCorr.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


And After (but before tightening). Can be done with out removing trans check/fill tube.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...GndCleaned.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


and finally engine to frame ground was cleaned on the right passenger side rear of engine. I took the right rubber fender shield off to get at /find it.


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...k/FrameGND.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


That really would have done it.....but because I had changed the ignition switch first, the aftermarket security system needed to be reconnected OR removed.

REMOVE IGINITION KILL (from previous owner aftermarket security system)
-The security system was removed and easy to see how it works by removing glove compartment door and see the break in the 2 ign (pink) wire off of the PCM.

Security Keypad


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...uck/Keypad.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


Ign Kill reconnected (C-clamp on button to keep light off)


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...lIgnSplice.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



-BEFORE cleaning gnds I decided to change ignition switch. At the time I figured IGN had to be the problem. I found changing ign switch EASIER than it was to find, clean, and repair all the grounds! BUT it didn’t fix the problem (actually caused another problem with security system) it cost $125 but I'm glad to have a NEW one in there given the contact design and significance this switch plays in circuit. I also knew that some day my 2 year old was going to push the right combination of buttons on the keypad to activate security, and I’m not sure how to enter the code (even though previous. owner has code written on visor).

REPLACING IGNITION SWITCH
New ignition switch


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...wIgnSwitch.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



Removing bottom cover torx screws from steering wheel


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...tCoverTorx.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



Tilt lever pulls right out


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...tLeverZoom.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


Ignition switch shown with bottom cover removed


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...thBotCover.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


Sliding Allen Wrench Under Top Cover To Pop Key cylinder out


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...erTopcover.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


Key cylinder out to remove top cover


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...CycLockOut.jpg
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process shown with top cover removed for detail

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...NoTopCover.jpg[/URL]
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


-I didn’t have and external torx socket, but was able to improvise by using a ¼” drive sockets for the screw holding top cover
Figure 5/32” deep socket on external torx


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...5_32Socket.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


Using 5/32” socket on external torx to remove top cover


http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...etDriver-1.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



and a #6 cap head screw in vise grips to remove the ignition switch screws (longer ~2” would have worked even better, to give more turning room)

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ze6CapHead.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


Bought a external torx set a autoparts store, but still had to use #6 screw since the set didn’t go down that small in size.

Many thanks to the Diesel Place’s 6.5L moderators, knkreb, Turbine Doc, and gmctd. As well as the good advice from many others.
-lcgarage

gmctd 05-16-2007 10:43 PM

Excellent post, dude - show 'n' tell rules...............

Nice truck.

j_k_auto 05-16-2007 11:30 PM

Nice pics. Great show and tell
Yea looks like the grounds did need some cleaning.

lcgarage 05-17-2007 01:09 AM

Thanks, don't know why all the extra repeated line show up "(imagage has been resized)" and "A<href....".

I forgot to include this V+ connection from eng mounted fuse box. This one looked bad from the outside, but when took it apart and looked at terminal surface they where clean and appeared to be Silver plated, so I just put back as is.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...lusCorrode.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


The mice had been busy too! packing seat foam in cab distribution box

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...041407_008.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


and around temp sensor

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...041407_015.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


I also think they ATE through this cheese flavored +12V orange wire to fog light, but I really hope not.

http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...041407_009.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)



There gone for now, I installed a NEW security system (3 KIA's).
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...041407_005.jpg
(Image has been resized. Click it for full size.)


But don't plan on telling wife about this one.

wayne grauel 05-17-2007 07:09 AM

Did you think to check main fuse panel...

(sorry.. if i missed it.)

ECM 1 and 2..
please excuse if i missed it.. I know how annoying that can be but I'm in a hurry and did not have time go over what is a very detailed post...

if it is.. then could be glow circuit or the ECM (glow circuit will thrown and ECM fuse 1 i believe!

Wayne

wayne grauel 05-17-2007 07:11 AM

nice looking truck BTW !!!!wayne

except for the mouse!

instarx 05-17-2007 07:11 AM

Just don't get into your truck barefoot!:) Excellent series of pictures. Very informative.

wayne grauel 05-17-2007 07:31 AM

I feel like an idiot!!!

"cleaning grounds fixed the problem..."

How on earth did I miss that... in bold even!!!

my apologies for doing the exact thing i complain about.. not reading the post all the way (or skipping the first lines and browsing through it.

nice job!

Wayne

Dieseldad97 05-17-2007 07:57 AM

Holy Cow.......great job!!!

I had my column apart a few weeks ago and could not get that key cylinder out. You used an allen key huh? So what was the trick? I really would like to know.

Anyways, guys like you are what makes this an excellent place.:)
Thanks.

lcgarage 05-17-2007 08:45 AM

Thx! Big credit to moderators, knkreb, Turbine Doc, and gmctd. I'm just the color guy.

This is how I removed key cyc. You may have to pull on key cyc at same time. The manual says to us a 90deg pick.
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f3...ruck/note3.jpg


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