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Old 06-27-2004, 02:01 AM   #1 (permalink)
Turbine Doc
 
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I have a little experiment I have been thinking on, that I finally got around to doing with the infamous FSD, maybe old ground already covered maybe not.


In Jan 04 I had a FSD "go bad", shut me down on the highway on a return trip from my hunting camp about 2 hours into the 2.5 hr return trip, outside temp was 50F, FSD mounted on a cooler was cool to the touch but would not let the truck start, it had stumbled a couple of times before shutting down, 1 restart then no start. At the time that FSD had about 50K on it, swapped to the new spare I carry and came home. New spare has about 10 K mi on it.


I got home and cleaned up the Bad FSDs transistor mount studs , nuts, to remove any oxidation that might be present, and re-torqued to 10" lb, I slaved it in and truck started right up, it became my spare.


With all the debate it's heat, its loose fasteners, I decided to run an experiment but did not get to it today. Bad FSD reinstalled at 84200, now at 84212mi no problems, will long road test tomorrow.


I took "bad" FSD and; reinstalled it on the cooler, but I 1st filed a small groove in it's base to accommodate a thermocouple wire that touches one of the transistor bases just to see how hot these things actually get and how long will this "bad" one hang in there.


My cooler is mounted on drivers side fender in pocket/bracket where a gassers washer fluid tank goes.


My engine was warm I had been road testing brakes after installing new stainless braided brake lines, I had run it for about 15 minutes. I only have 1 thermocouple so I don't know under-hood temp, ambient air was 80 F.


1st run was 15 minutes with engine at idle, hood down FSD at 96F starting went to 144.8 F in 15 minutes


I shut down the engine for 25 min and temp had dropped to 119.3


I restarted engine and drove for 10 min city traffic 0-50 mph temp varied 135-139


Shut down for another 6 min temp went to 131, restarted and within 4 min 40 sec temp rose to 151.6


Shut down engine after 6 min of driving 0-50 and engine was 150.7


After 42 minutes FSD had cooled to 129.3


After 2 hr 10 minutes FSD was 116 deg


Truck restarted FSD 7min 45 sec 116F up to 133 F 0-50 driving approx 2 miles


shutdown for evening FSD after 30 min back to 118


Will collect more data in AM, I'll also be collecting some numbers on IP PMD location later


Edited by: Turbine Doc

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Old 06-27-2004, 10:20 AM   #2 (permalink)
Texas Diesel Guy
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which PMD are you testing? There seem to be some characteristical differences between different generations. the first (30214) is so bad and so obsolete its not worth discussing. The second (34264) is actually what I run on my truck. The reason is because I find the third generation (34583) more prone to cause an intermittent stalling problem, which never really happened to the 2nd gen, it was more like a light bulb, it works, then it dies. just thought I'd throw that out there. besides, I can get a box of the 2nd gen for free so spares arent a problem, but I have over 100k on this one PMD (which by the way is mounted on the pump)


I for one will be very interested to see your results. (especially when you compare it to the factory location)Edited by: Texas Diesel Guy

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Old 06-27-2004, 04:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I have a 34583 driver, what generation is that?
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Old 06-28-2004, 12:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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FYI -


I installed a used (warranty failure) 34583 on my '95 (5288) pump, Fall of ought one - still going strong, after performing a little magic on it....


If you can get a box of those, you might want to hang on to them, also. Appears to be a simple fix for any model.


Also just installed the 2000 '5521 inj pump I had removed that PMD from - everything ok, so far
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Old 06-28-2004, 09:34 AM   #5 (permalink)
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texas diesel guy: how much do you want for one of those second generation (34264) pmd's? i would be very interested in purchasing one if the price is reasonable.
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Old 06-28-2004, 09:40 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I wouldn't mind a spare, what's the possibility on the second gen. driver?
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Old 06-29-2004, 12:11 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Okay I made a run yesterday 6-27-04 to my hunting camp I collected some interesting data. Basically the truck ran for 8 hrs start and stop hi way and woods crawling in 4wd . (Edit transistor after overnight was 100F)


I have 2 latest gen FSDs (34583s) the "resurrected one" as of yesterday had 343 mi on it, I put another 70 miles on it today so I'm up to 413 since retorqueing transistor nuts. Yesterday it was 88F outside today 91. Engine max temp was 192F and fuel temp was 140-144F


With temp probe in transistor cavity, and FSD cool plate mounted on driver side fender as before test I recorded following data:


After 85 minutes of driving temp at hi-way speed 70-75 transistor 135- 150, I shut off truck temp dropped to 147 after 7 min shutdown I restarted the truck after 3 minutes temp peaked up to 170.


Temp gradually reduced after 8 minutes back to 151 and varied 138-150 depending on speed for remainder of the trip 0-75mph about an additional 1.5 hr. total of about 2.5 hr of heated engine/FSD.


Once at the camp I had to shift to 4H gear crawled thru woods, stopping here and there to clear old dead falls across the road, the truck was left idling during time to clear falls, about 30 minutes on camp road I arrived at my cabin, 0-10 mph driving FSD temp was 213.5 and slow rising .1 deg every 3 sec when I shutdown.


I popped the hood to get some surface temps, after removing temp probe from FSD cavity the cool plate surface/fins was 185F 4 min after shutdown, temp on intake manifold was 178F after 10 min FSD plate was same.


I restarted the truck about 1 hr later for return trip this time with temp probe on intake at hi-way speed 70-75; intake temp was 187 within 15 minutes, FSD Plate/fins very cool 108-113 F, engine compartment at hi-way speed 160F just above engine aft of IP.


I relocated temp probe to base of the inactive PMD still installed there, (I have 2 spares 1 in glove box and 2nd like new on IP). temp at it's base at hi-way speed within 7 minutes went 153F to 169 F following the shut down to change location, I ran for another 40 minutes with probe here.


I then stopped with engine idling then slow drive for 2 miles @ 30 mph max IP/PMD was 165, FSD cooler surface temp was 138F


Initial conclusions from this are the FSD cooler does reduce transistor temp, with good airflow FSD even cool to touch. Further away from engine is better, probably outside engine bay is best. Right now I only have 1 set of transistor cavity readings, to nail this down some more I'll move the cool plate to the intake manifold and run same test with temp probe in transistor cavity.


Then I might move to the IP but it's such a PITA to get the PMD swapped over, last test I'll run is on a long extension into the cab to see if harness length is a contributor. I might also get a second temp probe from Sears so I can make better comparison without "skewing" result from frequent hood openings.


I think as we have found in past 2 fail modes at work heat itself 213 + on a transistor is darn hot, and loosening of mounting from heat/cool contraction/expansion reducing "clamping force" and giving poor ground to transistor base.


stay tuned folks more to follow.


Edited by: Turbine Doc
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Old 07-02-2004, 04:19 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info....I think this kind of confirms my personal opinion that the FSD NEEDS TO MOUNTED OUT OF THE ENGINE COMPARTMENT. I believe if you put them some where engine heat wont cook them on shut down we miay have better longevity. But, that just MHO.
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Old 07-02-2004, 07:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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why dont you just mount it inside the airbox, in front of the filter and let the engine pull air across the fins? Maybe there's some obvious drawback to this that I'm missing, just a thought... I'll see if I cant round up a handful of drivers, If I get them I'll sell them cheap (like freight + $20), but if I take a lot I'll have to sneak them out the back door you understand.Edited by: Texas Diesel Guy
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Old 07-02-2004, 11:05 PM   #10 (permalink)
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that sounds good texas diesel guy. that price works fine for me.

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