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Old 04-22-2019, 01:03 AM   #1 (permalink)
BadDog
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Holset wastegate actuator, move 90*?

I'm slowly building up a new rig and decided to use a "Baby" H1C Holset on a Banks Sidewinder manifold. One of the things I liked about the Holset is being wastegated, as opposed to the Banks. One of the thing I don't like about the Holset is that the actuator hangs WAY out the side. Probably not a problem on the I6 it came off, but on the 6.2, the actuator head would be about 2" inside the wheel tub.

So, I want to move it from sticking out the side to sticking out the front under the cold side casting. I thought making a bracket to put it there was the biggest effort, but then when I removed the hot side casting plate I found out that the wastegate appears to be just a sloppy rod with no bearing/bushing and the port cap arm welded(?) onto the shaft.

I expected it to have serviceable bushings, and be able to remove it for replacement of said bushings, but no joy. I suppose bronze bushings would probably be worse than no bushing (cast iron bearing) in the sooty environment.

I would also think that relocating the wastegate actuator based on installation interferences would be a common requirement, so I'm a bit surprised that there is no option other than cut-n-weld in place fabrication. I suppose maybe that was just a cost saving issue for the Dodge application budgetary goals.

So, am I missing something? Or just not as straightforward as I expected.

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Old 04-22-2019, 01:33 AM   #2 (permalink)
BadDog
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Another option might be a much shorter actuator mount. I've already got to modify the inner fender to make room for the 3" down pipe, so if I mount an adjustable wastegate actuator with short rod, it could stay on the side. I've seen some like this, but was operating under the *assumption* that it was offset that far to reduce heat exposure. But, since I see these short actuators, maybe that's not an issue. And I already need to switch wastegate control heads since I won't be running nearly the boost that the Cummins would take, so maybe that's a good option?

In doing some largely unproductive google searches, I've also seen that it's common to change out the pressure referenced actuator for a simple mechanical spring setup. I'm largely turbo illiterate, but that doesn't seem like nearly as good an option, particularly on a platform that will readily give me a huge FU if the boost gets over 10 psi or so (likely shooting for 8 psi). But, am I wrong? That would sure be a simple solution if so.

For what it's worth, I'm clearly not building a hot-rod diesel or I wouldn't be building a 6.2. What I want is just what I've heard described as a "healthy 454" responsiveness without the corresponding fuel consumption. But most important is to not become even more anemic when at higher altitudes. Maybe the spring would work well for that?

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Tow rig: White '02 2500HD SWB Crew 4x4 D/A Juice/Attitude on 285/75-16

Toy truck: '85 C10 SWB Step 6.2 SM-465

Expedition (project): 85 K20 Sub 6.2/700R4/NP241 D60/C14 (both locked) camping/expedition outfitted.
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Old 04-22-2019, 01:47 AM   #3 (permalink)
BadDog
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Not sure if it matters, but for reference, these are the best pics I could find of the wastegate configuration I'm working with.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg F.jpg (72.2 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg G.jpg (52.8 KB, 2 views)
File Type: jpg H.jpg (83.3 KB, 13 views)
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Tow rig: White '02 2500HD SWB Crew 4x4 D/A Juice/Attitude on 285/75-16

Toy truck: '85 C10 SWB Step 6.2 SM-465

Expedition (project): 85 K20 Sub 6.2/700R4/NP241 D60/C14 (both locked) camping/expedition outfitted.

Last edited by BadDog; 04-22-2019 at 01:48 AM.
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Old 04-28-2019, 11:53 PM   #4 (permalink)
BadDog
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Anyone with thoughts on wastegate actuator options?

Relocation? Are there relatively easy ways to relocate this style? I'm thinking not (other than fab it up), but don't know what I don't know.

Simple spring option? That would make this easy, though obviously not ideal. Good enough for my goals?

I'm completely new to this kind of home brew TD implementation, any thoughts welcome.
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Tow rig: White '02 2500HD SWB Crew 4x4 D/A Juice/Attitude on 285/75-16

Toy truck: '85 C10 SWB Step 6.2 SM-465

Expedition (project): 85 K20 Sub 6.2/700R4/NP241 D60/C14 (both locked) camping/expedition outfitted.
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Old 04-29-2019, 02:04 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I get the point that waste gate is waaay out the side, cut, fab ... weld my opinion.


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Old 04-29-2019, 04:12 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadDog View Post
Anyone with thoughts on wastegate actuator options?

Relocation? Are there relatively easy ways to relocate this style? I'm thinking not (other than fab it up), but don't know what I don't know.

Simple spring option? That would make this easy, though obviously not ideal. Good enough for my goals?

I'm completely new to this kind of home brew TD implementation, any thoughts welcome.
Some have just cut the vacuum actuator in half and added a spring and retainer to the rod to keep it simple, like this example:
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...ontroller.html
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Old 04-29-2019, 01:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
BadDog
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Thanks. Cut and weld was my first thought. Then, searching and reading about how others have handled the problem, I didn't find anything. Which surprised me given the common inexpensive and popular small turbo, I would have expected to see it at least come up.

Then in the searching I started running across the spring conversion, including the one here on the 6.5. Seemed to be pretty positive, but that's a 6.5, made for turbo. And I wasn't sure the 6.2 would be happy like that. Just intuitively, it seemed better to have it boost referenced. But that would certainly be by far the easiest option.

And that's my quandary. I'm prone to "analysis paralysis" on stuff like this, and can't find enough to read to come to a conclusion. So, I can go either way. I have the skills, equipment, and budget to relocate and add a boost referenced wastegate, but have a reasonable preference for easy/cheap/done. I just don't know enough to make the call. And doesn't help that I now have 2 obviously experienced/knowledgeable members with different answers. Maybe one is no better than the other?

For reference, my goals are:
1) Longevity of the motor
2) Fuel mileage
3) Responsiveness and ability to hold speed in the mountains.
3.a) Relatively heavy camping (etc) load in 85 Sub, but no towing.

So, is it worth it to relocate and pay for an adjustable boost referenced waste gate? What would that gain me? Am I imagining a possible benefit that simply doesn't exist? Or, as long as I run a boost gauge (will have a full complement of gauges) and keep boost max to around 8 psi, is the spring just fine for my goals?
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Tow rig: White '02 2500HD SWB Crew 4x4 D/A Juice/Attitude on 285/75-16

Toy truck: '85 C10 SWB Step 6.2 SM-465

Expedition (project): 85 K20 Sub 6.2/700R4/NP241 D60/C14 (both locked) camping/expedition outfitted.

Last edited by BadDog; 04-29-2019 at 01:30 PM.
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Old 04-29-2019, 05:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
Bigboytoys
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Yes, AKA the Turbo Master setup.


I wouldn't step up to a boost referenced waste gate and just do the spring version. The biggest head ache is finding the just right spring to hold the boost you want.


Yes an 8 psi limit is a good number, I would also add an EGT gauge and keep it under 1000 for a long living motor.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by happypunch View Post
it would be nice if it could deflect a deer or a prius...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livelli View Post
Mine ate about 6ft of paper towel once. It idled funny for a minute, then let out one big black firey fart and smoothed right out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyStepsKY View Post
My being able to set at the computer and type is evidence that my wife has not cut off both my arms and used them to beat me into a coma, so no, I did not buy it!
Post up pics of your carnage!!!! and timing ....Click Here
To bleed or find an air leak, simply, here’s a few different ways..
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/8492425-post11.html
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...leak-6-2l.html
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...ht-turn-3.html
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