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Old 03-02-2019, 04:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
BadDog
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Turbo drain line for Holset Baby H1C

I didn't expect to have a problem sorting the drain line for this thing, but turns out I was wrong.

I've got a 6.2 with Holset Baby H1C mounted on a Banks exhaust manifold. Holset says a MINIMUM drain tube ID of 7/8". But it seems the standard go-to is -10 AN braided line, which has a restriction at the -10 fittings of less than 1/2" ID.

And to really complicate things, the turbo mounts so low that it's almost impossible to maintain a decent slope. I previously thought that the common return piped into the fuel pump block off, but that would produce almost no slope with problematic routing. Fortunately that wasn't my plan, and I have a 3/4" NPT bung brazed into the oil pan a bit above the fill line behind the crossover downpipe obstruction.

Which all together means I need to drop down from the cartridge about 3" to get under the hot side housing with about 1/2" clearance. It then has to route toward the motor mount before making an arc back around the downpipe and under the exhaust manifold to hit the pan bung for maybe a 10* down slope IF I start it with a 100* elbow.

And as close as it is to the hot side housing, cross over, and exhaust manifold, plus the oil returning gets much hotter than common for engine oil, options like common oil line or silicone hose won't work due to heat limits. Teflon appears a better choice, maybe with a heat sleeve, but still seems less than ideal.

The only thing I can come up with is to do the same as the crossover and weld it out of 1" tube mandrel bends. But that's going to make it tough given the ideal arc being something like a 5" radius. I've got a 1" die with 3" radius for my tube bender, so maybe that's the best route? Then only have to have a very short hose (silicone?) for that last ~1" gap connector to the bung with a modified nipple to match the 1" ID hose needed for the fabricated drain.

I figure I've got to be missing something. What is it?

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Old 03-02-2019, 04:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
BadDog
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Oh, and I went yesterday to a local high pressure hose shop to see what they had. Thinking maybe hydraulic hose of some sort. But they didn't recommend it in a close space like that exposed to direct heat. And the best option they did have (not recommended) was VERY stiff making routing difficult, and no real solution for the section straight down from the cartridge flange before it can go rearward under the hot side. So that could still be an option with me fabricating the vertical drop and welding on a bung to fit some sort of hydraulic fitting (TBD) below the turbo. That at least gets the hose out from between the turbins, but still...

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Old 03-02-2019, 05:18 PM   #3 (permalink)
1967KaiserM715
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I'm trying to visualize this, but can't. Can you get some pictures?

My first thought was tap into the timing cover, and use -12an fittings.

There can be very little slope, as long as the pipe is reasonably large, with minimal restrictions.

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Old 03-02-2019, 05:19 PM   #4 (permalink)
Bigboytoys
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Just a PSA ....





Seriously some of this is just over thinking but pic's would help.


Yes, you need some line size to flow the return oil, 7/8ths ID is over kill cause the stock 6.5 I think is 5/8ths or 3/4 OD steel tooops.



The over all vertical drop is a big influence which would help with that 10* end as long as it's short, so the top of the pipe flows really well and doesn't backup while it pushs the remaining oil through that flat spot.


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it would be nice if it could deflect a deer or a prius...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livelli View Post
Mine ate about 6ft of paper towel once. It idled funny for a minute, then let out one big black firey fart and smoothed right out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyStepsKY View Post
My being able to set at the computer and type is evidence that my wife has not cut off both my arms and used them to beat me into a coma, so no, I did not buy it!
Post up pics of your carnage!!!! Timing Click Here
To bleed or find an air leak https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/8492425-post11.html
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...leak-6-2l.html
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:27 PM   #5 (permalink)
BadDog
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I've been known to overthink things before. But one of the primary goals of this build is dependable longevity for long back roads excursions. And it's pretty crowded in there, so not something I want to have to recreate to address problems once installed.

Also, I've read posts on other forums where folks kill turbos in very short order, one after another, and the general consensus on each was insufficient drain using -10 hardware with minimal slope, plus Holset seems pretty clear on the 7/8" minimum drain (I've found no spec on "minimum slope") or voided warranty. The Cummins drain tube I have for it is 3/4" steel tube with a very steep slope.

I thought about pictures, and actually took some earlier. But it's not easy to see and process without the 3D rotation. This is the clearest I could get it.

The front view shows the turbo drain location and oil pan bung indicated by the red arrows. You can see a direct line isn't bad at all. Too bad everything is in the way of anything remotely similar to a straight line.

The side view shows the turbo drain and oil pan bung again with red arrows, and yellow arrows indicating the interference points limiting routing options. The right yellow arrow shows where the crossover tube bolts up, preventing more direct routing.

By the time you get around everything it's a constant compound curve. The tube has to go back and cut over to the block roughly in line with the waste gate actuator pressure reference tube.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg TurboFront.jpg (87.3 KB, 1 views)
File Type: jpg TurboSide.jpg (76.2 KB, 1 views)
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Old 03-02-2019, 10:36 PM   #6 (permalink)
1967KaiserM715
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I see two options, move the pan bung back, that will give less curve, and allow to safely route away from exhaust.

Second will take more work, but make an extension and move turbo up, and get a clean line to the timing cover, and tap a fitting in the cover.

I believe banks had their line coming off tubo, moving in front of the crossover and either into the timing cover or into a special plate for the fuel pump.



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Old 03-02-2019, 11:32 PM   #7 (permalink)
Bigboytoys
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When I go back out to fill my boiler I'll measure one of my 6.5 drains.


Yes there will be a kink or 2 but I think your gona be fine as the vertical drop I think is more than enough to over come that lil flatish spot.


I would say using the fuel pump area with the turbo where it is, is too high up IMO



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90 Burb 1500 Silverado 4x4, 6.x in the shop, ATS Turbo on the bench . Open plenum intake. 700 R4 Now Rebuilt + 241, 10,000lb Trany Cooler With 10in pusher Fan and gauge. 8,000 LB Warn Multi Mount. TCC lock up control, 60 + 14b 4" Lift and 285 16's. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Quote:
Originally Posted by happypunch View Post
it would be nice if it could deflect a deer or a prius...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livelli View Post
Mine ate about 6ft of paper towel once. It idled funny for a minute, then let out one big black firey fart and smoothed right out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyStepsKY View Post
My being able to set at the computer and type is evidence that my wife has not cut off both my arms and used them to beat me into a coma, so no, I did not buy it!
Post up pics of your carnage!!!! Timing Click Here
To bleed or find an air leak https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/8492425-post11.html
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...leak-6-2l.html
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...ht-turn-3.html
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Old 03-03-2019, 01:28 AM   #8 (permalink)
BadDog
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Thanks. And agreed. I hadn't considered the timing cover. But moving the pan drain back would require finding another pan (or hokey patch). Every other pan I have is either damaged, or wrong vehicle.
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Tow rig: White '02 2500HD SWB Crew 4x4 D/A Juice/Attitude on 285/75-16

Toy truck: '85 C10 SWB Step 6.2 SM-465

Expedition (project): 85 K20 Sub 6.2/700R4/NP241 D60/C14 (both locked) camping/expedition outfitted.
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Old 03-03-2019, 01:46 AM   #9 (permalink)
BadDog
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Here is a related question. What is the max expected temperature for oil returning from the turbo? Maybe not looking for it in the right places, but haven't found that yet.
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Tow rig: White '02 2500HD SWB Crew 4x4 D/A Juice/Attitude on 285/75-16

Toy truck: '85 C10 SWB Step 6.2 SM-465

Expedition (project): 85 K20 Sub 6.2/700R4/NP241 D60/C14 (both locked) camping/expedition outfitted.
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Old 03-03-2019, 02:02 AM   #10 (permalink)
Bigboytoys
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It gets pretty toasty coming off the turbo some times, 220-240 especially if your towing.




__________________
90 Burb 1500 Silverado 4x4, 6.x in the shop, ATS Turbo on the bench . Open plenum intake. 700 R4 Now Rebuilt + 241, 10,000lb Trany Cooler With 10in pusher Fan and gauge. 8,000 LB Warn Multi Mount. TCC lock up control, 60 + 14b 4" Lift and 285 16's. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Quote:
Originally Posted by happypunch View Post
it would be nice if it could deflect a deer or a prius...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livelli View Post
Mine ate about 6ft of paper towel once. It idled funny for a minute, then let out one big black firey fart and smoothed right out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyStepsKY View Post
My being able to set at the computer and type is evidence that my wife has not cut off both my arms and used them to beat me into a coma, so no, I did not buy it!
Post up pics of your carnage!!!! Timing Click Here
To bleed or find an air leak https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/8492425-post11.html
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...leak-6-2l.html
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...ht-turn-3.html
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