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Old 02-03-2019, 07:24 PM   #1 (permalink)
BadDog
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Banks hybrid - cross over tube flange gasket.

I'm working on what will likely be my last vehicle project. An 85 GMC Sub that is being built as a desert exploration (and camping, etc) vehicle for my own enjoyment, and to show the grandkids the AZ back country. Anyway, the best power plant I could think of for an application like that is a 6.2 with turbo for both range/economy and good grunt for hauling all the expedition/camping gear.

So what I have is a late freshened up 6.2 with Banks Turbo exhaust manifold and a Baby H1C wastegate for 10 psi. Just enough to wake it up, and do well at 7k plus altitude excursions. I didn't like the banks exhaust cross over, so I've made my own along with a custom cross member to keep the exhaust away from my Fluid Damper, and being able to use a stock lower radiator hose.

I think I've got most of the kinks worked out, but welcome any advice that might be offered.

But my question that prompted this post is, does anyone have a part number for the 3 bolt flange gasket used on the cross over where it ties into the bottom of the Banks turbo manifold? I have no inclination to buy a gasket set from Banks for 1 gasket, and want to have a standard number just in case I need one in BFE on a weekend. Walker 31305 seems the closest I can find, but the spec doesn't quite match the gasket remnant I have.

It's a symmetrical 3 bolt flange with bolt spacing of ~2.701" and an ID of the steel ring in the gasket of ~2.409". But the actual flange itself is for a 2" tube, and has a slight recess that appears to be intended for the gasket ring OD registration at 2.350", which doesn't match the gasket dimensions. The ID of the (Banks?) gasket ring is slightly larger than the OD of the registration/lock recess...

Also, the flange I rescued from the Banks cross over was slightly warped. I bored out the old pipe and faced off the welds on that lathe using the slightly warped and slightly pitted face of the flange. I then used the gasket surface to average out a surface ground cleanup on the back, and flipped it to use that reference cleaning up the face. It took off about 0.005 to get a nice clean surface all around. It will likely warp again when I weld it onto the pipe, but at least that provides a smooth seal surface. But the question here is, assuming a find a gasket that matches the flange, what is the spec for depth of that ring recess to accommodate the steel ring of the gasket? Since the cleanup almost cleaned up the grove in the high spots, I'm assuming roughly 0.006 for ring registration?

So, anyone else been down this route and have a gasket part number to share?

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Last edited by OkDually; 02-03-2019 at 07:39 PM. Reason: prefix
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Old 02-04-2019, 04:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
BadDog
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I just called Banks "service" to ask if they could provide a standard gasket number that I could look up cross reference to buy locally. Their answer was exactly as I expected.

"No, I can't give you a number." Yeah, "buy our kit" for one gasket with shipping costing more than the one gasket is worth. That's their answer.

I also asked them about their gasket not seeming to fit the flange. "Can't comment on that" was the answer.

I'm definitely not a fan of Banks.

I haven't even gotten to that point, but I bet their air filter box also locks you into buying their air filters. If I hadn't gone so far with this hybrid based on a Banks exhaust, I would be looking into using the other turbo manifold I have. What ripoff of standard MBA "improve my margins with lock-in" thinking...

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Expedition (project): 85 K20 Sub 6.2/700R4/NP241 D60/C14 (both locked) camping/expedition outfitted.
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Old 02-04-2019, 05:37 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Try a muffler shop....
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Old 02-04-2019, 06:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
BadDog
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Hadn't considered that, thanks. I'll try tomorrow, they are closed or closing now.

I've checked with Napa and other parts houses, called Walker and Felpro/FM tech, and nobody seems to be able to identify it by dimensions. I've got a buddy who is an old school parts wrangler that kept all the books he could find and is going to see what he can find tonight.

For what it's worth, Banks wants $28.80 for the gasket set containing the super-secret flange gasket, plus $25.40 shipping by UPS ground (cheapest). So almost $55 for a set of gaskets where every other gasket (with the exception of the odd round 6-bolt turbo exhaust flange) is readily available locally for reasonable prices.

And to make it worse, it looks to me like the super secret "buy it from me" Banks gasket isn't even correct match for the flange on their cross over pipe (and until i got it, it appears to an unmolested orignal Banks unit).

If you want to see for yourself, here is the "kit" containing the solid gold exhaust flange gasket (so far) only available with their $55 kit.

https://www.bankspowerproducts.com/P...93300&CartID=1

Buyer beware. I don't think I would ever again buy/build something with a Banks Sidewinder on it. Just too many headaches and oddball stuff like this gasket. In the end, all I used was the turbo manifold, charge pipe, and plenum adapter box. And I'm regretting using ANY of it. I likely won't even use the Banks filter box for (appears so far) the same lock-in type crap on the element. I'm sure I can find a suitable filter box from a junkyard donor and use commonly available paper elements.
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Toy truck: '85 C10 SWB Step 6.2 SM-465

Expedition (project): 85 K20 Sub 6.2/700R4/NP241 D60/C14 (both locked) camping/expedition outfitted.

Last edited by BadDog; 02-04-2019 at 07:01 PM. Reason: Clarification
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:56 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Another option would be to call a diesel, injection, turbo shop and see what they say.


Yes, some stuff is just fauckin' gold plated for what your getting, try pricing out old Honda quad stuff if ya wana cry ....


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Old 02-05-2019, 11:19 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Bad Dog,
Would you mind posting pics of the crossover tube that you built? I too have a 6.2 with banks and I had to cut my crossover into a few pieces to get it out when I was having to replace the fuel pump. Its not that pretty now, but it works. But i have been wanted to redo it, and make it better. Id like to see what you did and have come inspiration...
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Old 02-05-2019, 11:27 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Also I bought the kit off of Amazon because i needed the Gold gasket for the exhaust flange
https://www.amazon.com/Banks-Power-9.../dp/B005TR6JEK
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Old 02-05-2019, 02:30 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Thanks, I noticed the Amazon listing, but still chafes my backside to spend that much. I'm pretty sure the walker gasket will work, but haven't had one to test yet.

The cross member is based on the stock cross member and bolts up to the rivet holes (3/8" G8) and pre-existing bolt hols (7/16 to the mount pedestals). So I used the factory end pieces that already have the correct holes to match the frame rivet holes and bends. For the wide passenger side end that obscures access to the fuel pump, I notched out a section to make room for a more reasonable cross over pipe to go through, and plated it across the sort of "S" shaped resulting cut end to restore rigidity.

The driver's side end goes into the frame rail just like the OEM and bolts into place, and is welded to the new boxed cross member made from 1.5 x 3 x 0.188 tubing. The passenger side wide end also goes inside and bolts to the frame via the rivet holes. And both sides retain the mount pedestal attachment with bolts. However, the passenger side is not welded to the cross member (which is why it needed the cut end plated). The cross member come up under that plate to bolt on with 1/2" G8 bolts. That will allow me to drop the cross member out by unbolting the 1/2" bolts on passenger side, and removing the 3/8" rivet bolts, thus allowing access to the motor bottom end should that become necessary.

Here is the cross member in sections. This is the first iteration before welding the end plate on the passenger side.

I then realized the straight angle cut wasn't going to get me enough clearance to use the stock lower radiator hose. So I cut off the first end plating and made a concave radius notch to let the pipe move further out and rearward. I didn't take a pic of that change, but here is a pic of it mounted with the not quite finished (flange not on yet) cross over tube.

And here it is mounted hanging from the motor mounts to provide reference for routing the cross over. I put a porta power ram underneath it to raise it level and take up slack in the mounts.

Edited: Looks like the img tag doesn't work with my image urls, so converted to links...
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Tow rig: White '02 2500HD SWB Crew 4x4 D/A Juice/Attitude on 285/75-16

Toy truck: '85 C10 SWB Step 6.2 SM-465

Expedition (project): 85 K20 Sub 6.2/700R4/NP241 D60/C14 (both locked) camping/expedition outfitted.

Last edited by BadDog; 02-05-2019 at 02:36 PM. Reason: Images not working.
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Old 02-05-2019, 02:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadDog View Post
Thanks, I noticed the Amazon listing, but still chafes my backside to spend that much. I'm pretty sure the walker gasket will work, but haven't had one to test yet.

The cross member is based on the stock cross member and bolts up to the rivet holes (3/8" G8) and pre-existing bolt hols (7/16 to the mount pedestals). So I used the factory end pieces that already have the correct holes to match the frame rivet holes and bends. For the wide passenger side end that obscures access to the fuel pump, I notched out a section to make room for a more reasonable cross over pipe to go through, and plated it across the sort of "S" shaped resulting cut end to restore rigidity.

The driver's side end goes into the frame rail just like the OEM and bolts into place, and is welded to the new boxed cross member made tom 1.5 x 3 x 0.188 tubing. The passenger side wide end also goes inside and bolts to the frame via the rivet holes. And both sides retain the mount pedestal attachment with bolts. However, the passenger side is not welded to the cross member (which is why it needed the cut end plated). The cross member come up under that plate to bolt on with 1/2" G8 bolts. That will allow me to drop the cross member out by unbolting the 1/2" bolts on passenger side, and removing the 3/8" rivet bolts, thus allowing access to the motor bottom end should that become necessary.

Here is the cross member in sections. This is the first iteration before welding the end plate on the passenger side.

I then realized the straight angle cut wasn't going to get me enough clearance to use the stock lower radiator hose. So I cut off the first end plating and made a concave radius notch to let the pipe move further out and rearward. I didn't take a pic of that change, but here is a pic of it mounted with the not quite finished (flange not on yet) cross over tube.

And here it is mounted hanging from the motor mounts to provide reference for routing the cross over. I put a porta power ram underneath it to raise it level and take up slack in the mounts.

Edited: Looks like the img tag doesn't work with my image urls, so converted to links...
Here are some tips/tricks to uploading pictures from your computer to the forum:
https://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=124914

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Old 02-05-2019, 02:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
BadDog
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Oh, and wide passenger side created a bit of a bowl when the cut end is plated. So there is a 1/2" hole at the low point to allow drainage.

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Tow rig: White '02 2500HD SWB Crew 4x4 D/A Juice/Attitude on 285/75-16

Toy truck: '85 C10 SWB Step 6.2 SM-465

Expedition (project): 85 K20 Sub 6.2/700R4/NP241 D60/C14 (both locked) camping/expedition outfitted.
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