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Old 06-22-2014, 01:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
zetan
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light load advance lever adjustment

Long story: 6.5TD in a G-van with DB2-5088 injection pump and short van injectors. Everything is new - trans, flexplate, balanced engine, fluid dampr, motor mounts. But the motor shakes at low throttle, shaking the mirrors, steering wheel, etc. The shaking smooths out about 1/2 way up the throttle pedal. Looking at the light load advance system under the TPS, it's curved to fully advance the piston at 1/2 throttle.

The IP was gone through by my local fuel injection shop. The injectors were rebuilt too.

With the IP all the way retarded, I get 1400rpm @ TDC, but I want something like -1.5 BTDC for turbo, no more room for adjustment.
With the IP/timing cover marks lined up, it's too far advanced. I've tried about 15 different settings. I measure with a lumi probe in #3 and 99.5 offset.

With the light load advance lever test, pushing it in at idle, I only get a slight change in tone, no fish biting, anywhere in the IP adjustment range UNTIL I'm fully to the passenger side.

Fuel injection shop says the fuel delivery valve in the pump is the right one for the injectors I have. Looks like G vs C/K have different valves!
So I shouldn't be mixing DB2 pumps from trucks on my van.

C/K — Injector - 84 mm length, 6 mm dia. nozzle valve; Lines - 2.50 mm I.D.; Delivery Valve Retraction - 30mm3
G — Injector - 74 mm length, 5 mm dia. nozzle valve; Lines - 2.00 mm I.D.; Delivery Valve Retraction - 22.5mm3
* — Injector - 74 mm length, 5 mm dia. nozzle valve; Lines - 2.36 mm I.D.; Delivery Valve Retraction - 22.5mm3

Anyway, pump shop agrees to retest my IP on their calibration rig.
Pulled the pump out and compared it to IP collection from picknpull.

DB2-4153 (with rebuild tag from Oregon fuel injection).
vs
DB2-5088

Right away I can see the 5088 light load advance lever is out of adjustment compared to the 4153.

4153 idle

4153 WOT


5088 idle

5088 WOT


As you can see the advance piston is barely pushed. The adjustment screw has paint on it, so I know the pump shop set it, or forgot it.

What is the spec on how far that piston needs to travel?

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Last edited by zetan; 06-22-2014 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 06-22-2014, 03:01 PM   #2 (permalink)
Bigboytoys
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Wheeeellll, there's your problem.....

Good to see it's an easy fix and but we gata see the new van soooo.....




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Old 06-22-2014, 03:32 PM   #3 (permalink)
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When pumps get "rebuilt" a lot are put together with whatever is on hand so you get a half-*** job at best. You need the original equipment stuff. Large ID lines , short injectors, correct pressure. The short 22.5 delivery valve and the correct spring. Now here is where some shops forget - need the right advance piston, the right face cam (part the lever rides on). The pump should be in time when lined up with the marks, nobody makes a good timing light for the 6.2 - 6.5.
Keep in mind pushing the lever in retards the timing. It's designed to allow extra timing when under light load. Smash the throttle and the timing retards till the rpms comes up.
Never been a fan of fluid dampers when the engine is externally balanced.
The damper must be offset in weight to balance the engine and the fluidity of the fluid damper IMO defeats that purpose somewhat. (I assume you do have counter weighted balancer)
I would personally rather have a 4911 pump than the one you are using.
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Old 06-22-2014, 03:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
DieselPro
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You did replace the flex plate with a counter weighted flex plate?

And the harmonic balancer has the counter weight as well in pic?
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/***...y-sage-646.jpg

Does the balncer look like this http://www.dieselops.com/Fluidampr-v...1982-1993.html

I have probably balanced a few hundred engines so I know a little about balanced engines. Injection timing has little effect on how much an 6.5l engine shakes at idle.

Last edited by DieselPro; 06-22-2014 at 04:06 PM.
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Old 06-22-2014, 05:23 PM   #5 (permalink)
zetan
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Flex plate same as the old - weighted


Harmonic balancer is fluid dampr. I have one on my 6.2 as well.

5088/injection lines/injectors are all from the same vehicle. Got the fuel system and computer from it.

There's a set of 4911/lines/long body injectors on CL for $400. Maybe next month.

Pump shop guy went though all the part #s on my rebuild, pulled the record from a few years ago. All matches. 22.5mm^3 delivery valve. I can't say if it's CORRECT but at least he went through it and double checked the parts list.

Putting in back in now!
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Aftermarket motor mounts are way to firm and will make a truck shake bad at idle.
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Old 06-22-2014, 06:28 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zetan View Post
What is the spec on how far that piston needs to travel?
Only thing I could find in my book about checking light load advance

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Old 06-23-2014, 08:04 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I can"t imagine its his mounts unless they are shot. I am running poly eurithane and have no excessive shake.
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Old 06-23-2014, 11:27 PM   #9 (permalink)
bobbywalter
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my oem setup always had a wicked vibration at idle, 5088 1995 g van hd no emissions.

the replacement unit was not as bad, but had other problems.....


this j pump idles weird and low with a bad stumble.....better then that ratty vibration.


the vibration wiped out my front output shaft bearings and u joints on the 208.
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Old 06-24-2014, 01:18 AM   #10 (permalink)
Bigboytoys
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbywalter View Post

the vibration wiped out my front output shaft bearings and u joints on the 208.
That's a typical whooped on 208 unfortunately. They live a bit long when feed 80/90 but don't use that in winter, try something thinner like 10/30 or 10/40.

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90 Burb 1500 Silverado 4x4, 6.x in the shop, ATS Turbo on the bench . Open plenum intake. 700 R4 Now Rebuilt + 241, 10,000lb Trany Cooler With 10in pusher Fan and gauge. 8,000 LB Warn Multi Mount. TCC lock up control, 60 + 14b 4" Lift and 285 16's. ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ
Quote:
Originally Posted by happypunch View Post
it would be nice if it could deflect a deer or a prius...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Livelli View Post
Mine ate about 6ft of paper towel once. It idled funny for a minute, then let out one big black firey fart and smoothed right out.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ManyStepsKY View Post
My being able to set at the computer and type is evidence that my wife has not cut off both my arms and used them to beat me into a coma, so no, I did not buy it!
Post up pics of your carnage!!!! and timing ....Click Here
To bleed or find an air leak, simply, here’s a few different ways..
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/8492425-post11.html
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...leak-6-2l.html
https://www.dieselplace.com/forum/63...ht-turn-3.html
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