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Old 03-01-2012, 10:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
MaineDiesel
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22SI 130 amp alternator install

Simple facts:
10SI/12SI puts out between 20-30 amps at idle.
22SI puts out around 50 amps at idle.
22SI puts out an equal amount of amps as the 12SI at a lower RPM.

With the 12SI it really doesn't allow our batteries to recover all that fast after starting or supplying the demand of other add-ons.

After shopping around for different alternator options I just couldn't justify spending that kind of money with my first kid on the way. Thats when I stumbled across a fellah' with a 22SI alt for $50 and I got it. Turns out he put this alt on an 86 chevy 1/2 ton 350 for a few weeks and then he got in an accident. I got home with it and tore the 12SI out of the truck to compare to the 22SI. The 22SI was indeed much larger than the 12SI but it fit in the same spot ( for the most part) and the lower hinge holes lined up with the original brackets and would just need a spacer. The top mounting ear was about an inch taller than the adjustment bracket but would still work by extending the bracket outwards( you will see in the final pics). The pulley was even the same size as my 12SI!
This is how I did it:
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Now put your alternator in and install lower bolt. Notice that the top ear is higher than the adjustment bracket. You will need to make an extension so you can adjust the belt tension.
16.jpg
I just used a spare piece of metal I had laying around and drilled the alt end out to match the bolt. You can adjust the tension with the bolt on the original bracket end of your new bar extension. Making the alt lean more to the passenger side of coarse means you will need a longer belt. I measured roughly 53" and by some luck was dead on and still has 2.5 inches of adjustment on the bracket as the belt stretches. The factory 1 & 2 plug can be plugged right into the alt top ( even though this alt is a quickstart) and there is a B+ terminal I and R terminal on the back! And to make things even better I added a new B+ wire back to the battery that 4 gauge. Hope this helped some people looking for better charging options. This whole project was done for $65.40.
The best part is that my old 12SI which is only a few months old is so tiny I stuck it uner my seat with the old belt for a spare, and being that I have used the original location and brackets I can throw it on if I have any issues while on (or off ) the road! I love redundancy!

Get creative and don't let people tell you it won't work!
-Maine

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Old 03-01-2012, 11:20 PM   #2 (permalink)
MaineDiesel
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I will post some numbers in a couple of days once the snow goes away and I can put some miles on it!

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Old 03-01-2012, 11:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
happypunch
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Love it! this would make for a fun project if i ever finish all my other projects first 130 amps is on the low end for a 22si isnt it? when i did a search i was seeing about 160ish all over for ~$130+. $50 is a steal!
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:41 PM   #4 (permalink)
MaineDiesel
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yes the 130 amp is about middle of the road in 22SI flavors. http://www.delcoremy.com/Documents/E...ion-Guide.aspx
check out page 28 for the different amp options. 130 amp max is much better than 78 max as far as I am concerned, lol
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Old 03-01-2012, 11:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
happypunch
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oh yeah! I would love to have that much power!
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Old 03-02-2012, 12:05 AM   #6 (permalink)
MaineDiesel
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Well, it's not THAT much power but worth doing for the right price for sure, especially when you dislike starting in the cold like my old girl!
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Old 03-02-2012, 08:08 AM   #7 (permalink)
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That is not true

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaineDiesel View Post
Simple facts:
10SI/12SI puts out between 20-30 amps at idle.
22SI puts out around 50 amps at idle.
22SI puts out an equal amount of amps as the 12SI at a lower RPM.
That is not true. Delco 12SI on a 6.2 with a stock setup puts out a little over 50 amps at idle speed. That 30 amp figure you cite for the 12SI is the minimum spec at 1600 alternator RPM and a pulley ratio of 2.5 to 1. The stock GM 6.2 diesel comes with a stock pulley ratio of 2.9 to 1. Thus a stock 6.2 with the 12SI spins the alternator at 2320 RPM at engine idle speed and puts out a little over 50 amps. Put a dual 2" pulley on the 12SI and it will put out 70 amps at engine idle speed.

There is no standard rated output for the 10SI or 12SI at "idle." It goes the alternator to crank pulley ratio - engine idle speed versus alternator RPM. A 12SI easily puts out 50 amps at engine idle speed with the correct pulley arangementj (standard with a 6.2). Just about any brushless alternator has to spin at a minimum of 1600 RPM to be useful and the minimum specs are posted at that low 1600 RPM. 22SI is a brushed-generator. A 12SI can put out 30 amps at 1600 RPM and 50 amps at 2000 RPM.

I can see using it a 22SI if you've got some strange need for 60 amps at a very low alternator RPM. I'm AM wondering why? The current carrying brush setup turns me off. 12SI is brushless.

My 6.2 diesel motorhome has a 12SI and four batteries. Two starting batteries and two huge deep-cycle storage batteries. 10,000 watts worth of DC to AC inverters, electric refrigerator, etc. The 12SI has handled all fine for years. Even at night with the headlight highbeams on, engine at a red light at idle speed, and frig on - it maintains fine.

If it's been parked all night camping? I start it in the morning -and it only takes a few minutes of driving to charge everything back up.
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1982 K10 PU 6.2 diesel,1983 (two) Blazers 6.2 diesel, TH400, 1983 K5 Blazer with 6.2 diesel, 4sp man. OD trans. and Chalet pop-up camper body.
1986 K5 Blazer 6.2 diesel, 700R4 trans.- with Halmark pop-up camper body.
1987 V20 4WD Suburban 6.2 diesel, 1988 K5 Blazer 6.2 diesel, 700R4. 1989 GMC 3/4 ton, 4WD Suburban, 6.2 diesel, TH400 trans.
1991 Suburban 4WD 6.2 diesel 700R4 trans.
1981 (two of them) Chevy Chevette with 1.8 diesel and 5 sp. trans.
1985 Isuzu P'UP 4WD pickup with 2.2 diesel
1991 (Two of them) Volkswagen Jetta 1.6 diesel
1985 Ford F250 4WD ex-cab, longbed, 6.9 diesel
1994 Ford F250 4WD ex-cab, longbed, 7.3 IDI turbodiesel.
1983 Mercedes 300D five-cylinder turbo-diesel
1992 Dodge D200 4WD Cummins turbo-diesel, intercooled with 5 spd Gertrag
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Old 03-02-2012, 09:36 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdemaris View Post
I can see using it a 22SI if you've got some strange need for 60 amps at a very low alternator RPM. I'm AM wondering why? The current carrying brush setup turns me off. 12SI is brushless.
The multiple 12Si's i've taken apart and rebuilt are not brushless.

10Si and 12Si do have brushes. There are two in a one on top of the other configuration insulated from one another by the holder, unlike a starter where there are 4 brushes that are opposite eachother on the armature in an "X". They are under the armature in the back 1/2 of the case. You have to pull the armature out to see them and the brush holder.

10si/12si use the same rebuild parts, save for the cooling fan, as they are basically identical internally. Only difference internally is the number of windings for the higher output in the 12Si(78 amp) or 12Si HO(94 amp) alternator over the 10Si series of alternators. The only external difference is the front case and cooling fan. The front case of a 12Si is built for maximum cooling and minimum clearance from the 12Si specific cooling fan.


Here is a set of brand new brushes for a 12 Si. Along with a pictures of a standard 78 amp 12Si rear with the pencil pointing to where you slide a thin piece of wire or pin to hold the brushes back during re-assembly. Pull the wire out through the back via this hole after the alternator is fully assembled to allow the springs to press and hold the brushes to the commutator. In the following picture the brushes and brush holder are to the right of the indicated hole.






To the OP I have a 33Si 135 amp alternator here that is brushless, but it makes that 22si seem like a baby.

I'd love the idea of putting this huge 33Si in my truck, but there is no physical room. It's self exciting too. Spin it fast enough, and it's charging. Too bad it's in such rough shape, but you can't beat free, and it still works. Just needs some TLC.

Here's a few pictures of the 33Si monster next to the standard 78 amp 12 Si that was stock(save for 1982 when the 6.2 had a 10Si 63 amp alternator).





Some info on the 33Si. http://www.delcoremy.com/Alternator/...lternator.aspx

A good read on the 10/12/15/17Si and the CS130 and CS144 alternators. http://www.extreme4wheelin.com/tech/...ators/tech.htm

The 33Si isn't the largest of the Si series alternators either. Makes one wonder how big they get?

For what it's worth most "pick-and-pull" junkyards don't charge much for alternators and starters. I've gotten multiple alternators for $20-25 a piece and rebuilt them with $10 in parts and they work like new again. Even picked up a few 28MT starters for the scary low price of $25 each. One is a genuine ACDelco too(still has the sticker on it), which is stored away for when i'll need it. If you have 6.2s in your local junkyards pillage the rotating electric components, because everyone needs a starter or alternator at some point.
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Last edited by IamDave0887; 03-02-2012 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
jdemaris
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10SI and 12SI are "brushless" design

Quote:
Originally Posted by IamDave0887 View Post
The multiple 12Si's i've taken apart and rebuilt are not brushless.
.

10SI and 12SI are properly designated as brushless by me and AC Delco. "Brushless" means no brushes are used to carry charge current. In a 10SI and 12SI the brushes only feed excitor field current at a max of 3 amps. Thus they can last almost forever if not dusty.

For the bigger alternators - the 19SI, 21SI and 22SI are "brushed" alternators. The 23SI and 26SI are brushless.
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1982 K10 PU 6.2 diesel,1983 (two) Blazers 6.2 diesel, TH400, 1983 K5 Blazer with 6.2 diesel, 4sp man. OD trans. and Chalet pop-up camper body.
1986 K5 Blazer 6.2 diesel, 700R4 trans.- with Halmark pop-up camper body.
1987 V20 4WD Suburban 6.2 diesel, 1988 K5 Blazer 6.2 diesel, 700R4. 1989 GMC 3/4 ton, 4WD Suburban, 6.2 diesel, TH400 trans.
1991 Suburban 4WD 6.2 diesel 700R4 trans.
1981 (two of them) Chevy Chevette with 1.8 diesel and 5 sp. trans.
1985 Isuzu P'UP 4WD pickup with 2.2 diesel
1991 (Two of them) Volkswagen Jetta 1.6 diesel
1985 Ford F250 4WD ex-cab, longbed, 6.9 diesel
1994 Ford F250 4WD ex-cab, longbed, 7.3 IDI turbodiesel.
1983 Mercedes 300D five-cylinder turbo-diesel
1992 Dodge D200 4WD Cummins turbo-diesel, intercooled with 5 spd Gertrag
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Old 03-02-2012, 10:49 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Excellent write-up MaineDiesel, all said and done this gives us more options to save a buck or two.

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I put a chevrolet tailgate on my last truck and it started acting like a girl...love me, need me, want me pay attention to me. Took it off and put the GMC back on (fixed the latch) and it went back to being the same old dirty bastard it used to be
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