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Old 06-26-2010, 01:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
cub124
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ARP head studs or head bolts?

okay this may be a big debate on price vs is it worth it. Im on a budget, only getting paid like 6 something an hour after paying all my dues to uncle sam.

so the what are the pros and cons of head studs?
and the pros and cons of head bolts?

the bolts are obviously cheaper and the studs are reusable but i dont have plans on another head job in the future.

so please let me know what there is to gain by the studs and if its really worth it.

Ill be running stock 6.2 compression, heads shaved 8 thousands of an inch but that shouldn't effect compression too much. Ill also be running a 6.5 turbo set up, hopefully a gm-8!!!

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Old 06-26-2010, 01:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
Fred482`
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Bolts are, well, pretty much just bolts. The ARP bolts are a good grade, fine workmanship, etc. I've used nothing but Sealed Power replacement bolts for years. The cost is lower and I've had no failures. They're a "torque to yield" bolt, use once and replace them the next time.

ARP studs are top quality components. I've used them for many years in high performance applications. They are somewhat difficult to work with. In the early GM 5.7 diesel days, I tried using them and found problems. Most were from lack of experience using studs vs bolts. The torque specs first given were wrong, not tight enough, the head gaskets failed prematurely. After some trial & error, I found them to be more trouble than they were worth. Went back to bolts, no more premature failure.

The new design studs have allen wrench provisions for removal in chassis. That helps but clearance to the A/C evap housing is still tight. The brake booster side isn't that much easier. Pulling a head that has studs installed is a much harder task with the engine in the chassis, sometimes impossible.

The stud design warrants following the manufacturers installation instructions carefully. Clean block threads thoroughly, don't overtighten them into the block threads, lube with recommended lubricant, adhere to torque specs per lube used, there is a huge difference in tightening specs between using ARP's moly lube and plain engine oil.

The other issue I've had is coolant seepage up the stud. Bolts, with proper PTFE sealant on the threads will seal when torqued to specs. Studs seem to allow some seepage up the threads because, according to the instructions, you're not supposed to "bottom" the stud in the block, just install the stud 'finger tight'. Some engine builders even recommend seating the stud in the block and then, backing it out a half turn.

I use bolts, I will stick with what works for me. The choice is there, other opinions are valid too. Whatever you use, careful attention to detail will increase chance of success.

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Old 06-26-2010, 05:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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okay thanks, should i use thread sealant on the bolts also?
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Old 06-26-2010, 06:11 PM   #4 (permalink)
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some head bolts come with sealant on them. some don't. a lot of the bolts go through water passeges and need sealed. use something like permatex sealant, not teflon tape as it will throw all your torque readings off.

the one advantage of the studs is they can be reused if you need to remove the head again. bolts, you need a new set. with the studs you don't have to worry about the sealant throwing out torque readings on the studs as your tightening the nuts
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:35 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I am a believer in ARP head studs. The tty bolts don't retain their torque value under heat and vibration. Of the 20 some 6.2 and 6.5s that I've taken apart, the torque value is all over the place. To me the TTY bolts are like a rubber band. You stretch too many times and it looses it's elasticity. I won't take a chance wrecking a engine with a known failure point that only costs $70 more to do right the first time.
I seal the threads ,into the block, of the studs with teflon tape and permatex 2.No leaks.
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Old 06-27-2010, 12:20 AM   #6 (permalink)
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alright i still havnt decided but alldata tells me the torque specs for the bolts is 20ft lbs then 50ft lbs then turn then an additional 1/4 a turn, i have also heard 100ft lbs, also injectors are 50ft lbs correct?
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Old 06-27-2010, 11:54 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Your torque specs are correct. I've found that if, after the correct procedure of angle torquing is done, the torque averages around 105#. I've checked quite a few engines and most bolts will "click" at 105#, some go as high as 120#. I usually set my wrench at 105# and go over them as a quick check. If they don't click the first time, I pull slowly and gently a second time. Most will click the second time without moving the bolt. As mentioned, they are a bit "stretchy".

I use Loctite-Permatex PTFE Teflon pipe sealant on the threads. I squirt a quarter-sized dab in the palm of a gloved hand, rotate each bolt, coating the bottom third of the threads. Just cover the threads, don't apply too much, it's expensive and it will pile up between the deck and the head.
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Old 06-27-2010, 02:47 PM   #8 (permalink)
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okay thanks! also one spec i forgot to get was the rocker arm bolts, i think its 40 ft lbs.

at least that's what this web site says http://www.v8dieseltech.net/spec/torqspec.htm
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