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Old 06-23-2005, 06:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
dieselhome
 
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The latest glow plug findings from dieselhome

Well I decided to start a new thread since the old one is getting a little too long. I was checking my glow plugs today, when I noticed that one used plug is a 6V plug, now I am certain the system is 12 volt after connecting a multimeter on DC volts and practically every glow plug connector read 12 something. What I don't get is how could this engine have ran for several thousand miles on a 6 volt plug? I know that you can't run a 6 volt system with 12 volts plugs, but can you vice versa? This motorhome came with 2 spare 6 volts and I can't use them. The other thing I found out is that I have been testing the plugs incorrectly I hooked up the meter to the plug end where the connector goes, but I had the wrong setting on the meter so that's why I was getting 000 reading now I'm getting 01.1 fluctuating to 01.5 which I take it is around 1.1-1.5. The plug whose tip I couldn't get a grip on whose hex is spinning independent of the plug itself is returning .0.9 which I understand is too low? So I have to replace that one, the question is how am I going to get it out? And I guess I'm going to have to replace the six volt as well? Ah what the hell, maybe I should just buy another 6 autolite 1110s? Any suggestions? The other thing is that I hooked up a test light to do the same test with the relay switch on or off, to determine if the plugs are getting ground and are bad and the test light stays on, which means ground meaning bad plug, but when I connect it to the plug connector and the relay switch is on it goes off. The test light is connected to a positive battery wire that has a fuse inline, should it just be straight to the battery itself? Am I missing something? One last thing my low coolant light is on, any connection?
If all I have to do is get my glow plug situation straightened out to get this engine started, then I am way ahead of the game then I was when I thought I had major engine problems, Please help me clarify this confusion.
Thanks guys for all your help!



Last edited by dieselhome; 06-23-2005 at 08:05 PM.
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Old 06-24-2005, 12:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
Fred482`
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The original glo-plugs in the early 6.2's were AC 9 G's (6-volt). By timing the controller to go off after 7.5 to 9 seconds, the would live, for a while. The later models used a PTC (Positive Temperature Coefficient) plug. These were self current limiting. As they heat up, they use less current, thus are self regulating. AC 60G's are the latest version. These require a longer "wait time" for cold starts but the plugs are protected from burning out and swelling the tips.

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'82 GMC 6.2 N/A, 3/4T 4X4, THM 400HD, 4:10's, 240,000 Miles, 15.5 MPG highway, 13 City. Sold and performing daily duty in British Columbia.
'84 Chev Suburban 6.2 N/A, 3/4T 4X4, 700R4HD, 4:10's, 210,000 Miles, 21 MPG highway, 16 City. Sold and performing daily duty in Indiana.
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Old 06-24-2005, 02:45 PM   #3 (permalink)
dieselhome
 
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Original glow plugs?

Ok then it's possible since this rigs engine was overhauled that the system was changed to 12 volt? All I know is the voltage rating I'm getting with the relay on is around 12 so it must be a 12 volt system, not to mention this engine for a P30 on autolite 1110 is 12 volt.
Thanks
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Old 06-24-2005, 07:50 PM   #4 (permalink)
dieselhome
 
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Glow plugs and starter dragging.

Well I replaced all 7 of the plugs, 7 becuase I have not been able to take out the one that is stuck, I tried everything everyone sugggested in the other thread. can't ez it out, because I'm drilling at an angle and I don't have access to a slant drill. I can't take out it without taking it out of the block and that's a real process, I'm not about to start screwing with the head. I tried to get it loose with vice grips, no way! Tried the air hammer approach still no go. So I'm just going to leave it in until I cant get the engine started and get to someone who can get it out. The starter is dragging and when I put the multimeter on the starter before cranking it, it shows 12-13 like the battery, the battery goes down to about 10 when cranking engine, the starter goes down to about 7. I talked to a manager at advanced and he said it sounds like the starter is being "dragged down" and is not getting enough current check your wires, well my big thick battery wire that goes to the starter has been taking a lot of heat and the wires are exposed and look frayed, it's been recommended that I change the whole wire it's about 15 bucks at advanced, well that's where I'm at presently, any thoughts or suggestions, would be much appreciated.
Thanks all for your help and suggestions.

Last edited by dieselhome; 06-24-2005 at 07:53 PM.
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Old 06-24-2005, 09:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Good wires make all the difference, can't beat the price either.

You said you tried ether, and still didn't start, unless the starter is dragging internally, it should have started.

You really need to get this truck into a shop and have them atleast diagnose it if not fix it.
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Old 06-25-2005, 12:12 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I agree on the shop thing as everyone has given all the info and more that I would have tried. The other thing That I guarantee will fix it! JACK UP RADIATOR CAP AND PLACE NEW TRUCK UNDER IT! Brent
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Old 06-25-2005, 02:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
Fred482`
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Don't worry about the voltage of the vehicle. All civillian vehicles are 12 Volt. The 6V rating on the glo-plugs are just that, a voltage rating of the plug itself. The vehicle relay still supplies 12 volts to the systems with 6 volt glo-plugs. The idea of this was quick heat and fast starts. The problem was that they tend to destroy themselves from being subjected to 12 volts repeatedly. Hence, the second design (third, if you count the GM 5.7D 12 volt, slow start system from '78) system with the PTC type plugs and longer timing of the relay/controller.

The issue of replacing the old 6 volt plugs with new 12 volt plugs is glo-plug "on time". If you still have the old style controller in the lt. rear cyl. head bypass cover, and an external Delco Pt #560580 relay, you may not be able to get enough "on time" out of the controller to allow the new 12 volt plugs to heat up enough to fire off the fuel on cold starts.

Thats why most everybody converts their glo-plug system with some type of manual switch/bypass to allow them to hold the power on to the plugs, allowing them to continue to heat after the controller "kicks off". This works with 12 volt plugs of any type but will quickly burn up a set of the old Delco 9G, 6 volt plugs!

The starter/battery cables is another matter. Without good, heavy battery cables, batteries and starter, no 6.2 will start well, even when warm. Fix this problem one step at a time and you'll get it going. Good luck and keep us posted. Fred
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'82 GMC 6.2 N/A, 3/4T 4X4, THM 400HD, 4:10's, 240,000 Miles, 15.5 MPG highway, 13 City. Sold and performing daily duty in British Columbia.
'84 Chev Suburban 6.2 N/A, 3/4T 4X4, 700R4HD, 4:10's, 210,000 Miles, 21 MPG highway, 16 City. Sold and performing daily duty in Indiana.
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Old 06-25-2005, 04:03 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Trying to understand

Ok first off I want to remind all of you that this is not a truck, it's a 27 ft. motorhome and myself my wife and cat are living in it, so the shop idea doesn't work to well. So let me understand what your saying about the plugs, if I understand correctly the autolite 1110s I just bought from advanced won't work unless I have manual switch relay? So I would be better off with AC delco 60gs if I intend to keep the relay I have? This all so confusing. To make matters worse I still have that one plug that's stuck in the cylinder and refused to come out. What happens when you mix 12 and 6 volt plugs? I really have to figure this out. I just spent 60 bucks yesterday in glow plugs at advanced and now I may have to take them back? I know autozone has ac delco 60gs, if that's what I need? I really don't want to start messing with the relay switch, if I don't know what I'm doing.
Thanks again guys.

Last edited by dieselhome; 06-25-2005 at 04:56 PM.
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Old 06-25-2005, 04:07 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas Diesel Guy
Good wires make all the difference, can't beat the price either.

You said you tried ether, and still didn't start, unless the starter is dragging internally, it should have started.

You really need to get this truck into a shop and have them atleast diagnose it if not fix it.
I don't know what you mean by you tried either, I don't have a new battery cable yet, if that's what you mean, I'm going to get one this weekend and change it.
Thanks
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Old 06-26-2005, 12:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
Fred482`
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I didn't read for sure, what type of relay and controller you have. It should be the two items I mentioned above. A separate controller in the lt rear cyl head water outlet cover. (Sticks up with a six wire plug on it) The separate relay is as decribed, two 5/16" threaded posts and two male spade terminals. Usually mounted near the fuel filter at the rear of the engine, on the motorhome chassis. It looks like an old Ford starter solenoid.

The late style relay/controller is one unit, usually gray in color, two copper posts, threaded with nuts to hold the wires on and a snap-loc flat four wire connector for control wiring.

If your system is the two separate pieces, it is designed for the 9G, fast start glo-plugs. AC 11G's were the replacement number for the 9G's. The early two separate piece systems won't start well with the newer style plugs. These include AC 60G's.

In order to use the AC 60G's, you would need the bypass switch to keep them on long enough to heat sufficiently to start a cold engine. They take longer to reach operating temperature then the old 6 volt type (AC 9G's).

I'm unfamiliar with the other after-market plugs. I don't know if they are the PTC type. Let us know, Fred

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ASE MAT and MTT
GM Master Truck Technicians Guild Charter Member
'82 GMC 6.2 N/A, 3/4T 4X4, THM 400HD, 4:10's, 240,000 Miles, 15.5 MPG highway, 13 City. Sold and performing daily duty in British Columbia.
'84 Chev Suburban 6.2 N/A, 3/4T 4X4, 700R4HD, 4:10's, 210,000 Miles, 21 MPG highway, 16 City. Sold and performing daily duty in Indiana.
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