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Duramax Fourth Generation: 2007.5-2010 (LMM) Discuss the fourth generation (2007.5-2010) of the 6.6L Duramax diesel engine & associated components. Engine related discussion ONLY.

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Old 05-02-2016, 06:26 PM   #1 (permalink)
justaguy
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crank, no start, erratic misfire codes only

my 2008 duramax just came off a 200 mile trip and started missing/running rough when I pulled over for a rest break. it had poor power taking off until I go into the throttle when she would just take off.
I got home and it ran really rough in idle. It would pick up only when throttle and rpm were up over 1500 rpm. This was operating temp. The only codes were for misfires and those were random. There is no smoke at any stage.
The next morning, when cold, it will not start. It seems to try with the odd cylinder firing but not enough to maintain running at any throttle setting.
I changed the fuel filter, bled the system but no change. I suspect a fuel rail pressure relief valve or pressure control valve.
Where I live I do not have access to a shop so I will have to get to the bottom of this myself. I am going to have to purchase some new tools next trip out of Town like high pressure fuel tester and fuel line release clips.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.

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2004.5 gmc 2500 HD 6.6 duramax. waiting for transfer case rebuild 500,000 kilometres. My first Dmax. Duratuned running at +60 hp
2008 Chev Silverado 2500 HD 140,000 miles. My "OK, they are great now for a better one" factory stock.
2008 Chevy Cobalt 80,000 miles. My 'gopher' unit.
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Old 05-02-2016, 11:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
Ron Nielson
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If you don't figure it out quickly, might think about a subscription to ALLDADIY - great reference tool.

Symptoms - Computers and Control Systems

Diagnostic Instructions


  • Perform the Diagnostic System Check - Vehicle prior to using this diagnostic procedure. See: Testing and Inspection\Initial Inspection and Diagnostic Overview
  • Review Strategy Based Diagnosis for an overview of the diagnostic approach.
  • Diagnostic Procedure Instructions provide an overview of each diagnostic category.
Symptoms Description

Symptoms covers conditions that are not covered by DTCs. Certain conditions can cause multiple symptoms. These conditions are listed together under Symptoms Testing. Conditions that may only cause specific symptoms are listed separately under Additional Symptoms Testing. Perform the Symptoms Testing before using the Additional Symptoms Testing.

Symptoms Definition

Cuts Out, Misses

  • A steady pulsation or jerking that follows engine speed, which is usually more pronounced as the engine load increases. This condition is not normally felt above 1500 RPM or 48 km/h (30 mph). The exhaust has a steady spitting sound at idle or at low speed.
Hard Start

  • The engine cranks OK, but does not start for a long time. The vehicle does eventually run, or may start but immediately stall.
Hesitation, Sag, Stumble

  • A momentary lack of response as the accelerator is pushed down. This condition can occur at any vehicle speed. This condition is usually more pronounced when first trying to make the vehicle move, as from a stop. This condition may cause the engine to stall in severe conditions.
Lack of Power, Sluggishness, or Sponginess

  • The engine delivers less than expected power. Little or no increase in vehicle speed when the accelerator pedal is pushed down part way.
Poor Fuel Economy

  • Fuel economy, as measured by an actual road test, is noticeably lower than expected. Also, the fuel economy is noticeably lower than it was on this vehicle at one time, as previously shown by an actual road test.
Rough, Unstable, or Incorrect Idle and Stalling

  • The engine runs unevenly at idle. If severe, the engine or the vehicle may shake. Engine idle speed may vary. Either condition may be severe enough to stall the engine.
Surges/Chuggles

  • An engine power variation under steady throttle or cruise. Feels like the vehicle speeds up and slows down with no change in the accelerator pedal position.
Fuel Knock/Combustion Noise

  • A mild to severe ping, usually worse under acceleration. The engine makes sharp metallic knocks that change with the throttle opening.
Excessive Smoke (Black)

  • Black smoke under load, idle or start up, hot or cold.
Excessive Smoke (White)

  • White smoke under load, idle or start up, hot or cold.
Excessive Smoke (Gray or Blue)

  • Gray or Blue smoke under load, idle or start up, hot or cold.
Symptoms Verification

Before using the Symptom tables, perform the following inspections:


  • Ensure that the engine control module (ECM) and malfunction indicator lamp (MIL) are operating correctly.
  • Ensure that there are no DTCs that are stored.
  • Ensure that the scan tool data is within a normal operating range.
  • Verify the customer concern.
  • Perform the Visual/Physical Inspection. The visual/physical inspection is extremely important, and can lead to correcting a condition without additional testing. It may also help reveal the cause of an intermittent condition.
Identifying Intermittent Conditions

Many intermittent conditions occur with harness or connector movement due to engine torque, rough pavement, vibration or physical movements of a component. Refer to the following for a list of issues that may cause an intermittent condition:


  • Moisture and water intrusion in connectors, terminals, and components
  • Incomplete connector mating
  • Poor terminal contact
  • High circuit or component resistance-High resistance can include any resistance, regardless of the amount, which can interrupt the operation of the component.
  • Harness that is too short or tight.
  • Wire insulation that is chaffed or cut.
  • High or low ambient temperature
  • High or low engine coolant temperatures
  • High underhood temperatures
  • Heat build up in component or circuit due to circuit resistance, poor terminal contact, or high electrical load
  • High or low system voltage
  • High vehicle load conditions
  • Rough road surfaces
  • Electro-magnetic interference (EMI)/circuit interference from relays, solenoids or other electrical surge
  • Incorrect installation of aftermarket, add on accessories
Visual/Physical Check

  • Ensure that the control module grounds are clean, tight, and correctly located. Refer to Component Connector End Views.
  • Ensure that the air filter is clean and free from restrictions.
  • Ensure that there is no water intrusion in connectors terminals and components.
  • Inspect the air intake ducts for the following conditions:
  • Collapsed
  • Damaged areas
  • Looseness
  • Incorrect installation
  • Leaking
  • Inspect for air leaks at the intake AIR valve, the intake AIR heater, the MAF sensor and intake manifold sealing surfaces.
  • Inspect the wiring harness for the following conditions:
  • Poor connections
  • Pinches
  • Cuts
  • Inspect for loose, damaged, unseated, or missing sensors/components.
  • Inspect the terminals for corrosion and correct contact.
Symptoms Testing

Cuts Out/Misses, Hard Start, Hesitation/Sag/Stumble, Lack of Power/Sluggishness/Sponginess, Poor Fuel Economy, Rough, Unstable, or Incorrect Idle and Stalling, Fuel Knock/Combustion Noise, or Surges/Chuggles Excessive Smoke (Black), Excessive Smoke (White), Excessive Smoke (Gray or Blue)


  1. Test for the following conditions:
    • The sensor systems for the following:
    • Inspect the mass air flow (MAF) sensor for obstruction, contamination, and damage.
    • Idle the engine and observe the Actual Fuel Rail Pressure and the Desired Fuel Rail Pressure parameters. If the pressure difference is more than 2 MPa, a fuel control issue may exist.
    • Inspect for the EGR valve sticking open. Command the valve to 20%. Desired and actual position should not be more than 3% different.
    • Inspect the CKP sensor reluctor wheel. Remove the CKP sensor and attempt to move the reluctor wheel front to back or side to side with a probe. If there is any movement, the reluctor wheel retaining bolts are loose.
    • Inspect the engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor. Use the scan tool in order to compare the ECT with the ambient air temperature on a cold engine. If the coolant temperature reading is more than 5 degrees more or less than the ambient air temperature on a cold engine, inspect for a high resistance in the coolant sensor circuit or the sensor itself.
    • Inspect for an intermittent FRP sensor signal by wiggling the harness between the sensor and the ECM with the ignition ON and the engine OFF, while monitoring the parameter with a scan tool.
    • Inspect for an intermittent crankshaft position (CKP) sensor signal.
    • The Air Induction System for the following:
    • Leaks in the Induction system before the Turbocharger. Refer to Induction System Smoke Test in Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Full System Air Leak Test) Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Induction System Smoke Test) Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Charge Air Cooler Air Leak Test). See: Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Full System Air Leak Test) See: Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Induction System Smoke Test) See: Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Charge Air Cooler Air Leak Test)
    • Leaks in the Charge Air Cooler system. Refer to Charge Air Cooler Air Leak Test in Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Full System Air Leak Test) Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Induction System Smoke Test) Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Charge Air Cooler Air Leak Test). See: Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Charge Air Cooler Air Leak Test) See: Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Full System Air Leak Test) See: Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Induction System Smoke Test)
    • Leaks in the engine assembly. Refer to Full System Air Leak Test in Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Full System Air Leak Test) Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Induction System Smoke Test) Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Charge Air Cooler Air Leak Test). See: Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Full System Air Leak Test) See: Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Induction System Smoke Test) See: Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Charge Air Cooler Diagnosis (Charge Air Cooler Air Leak Test)
    • The Fuel System for the following:
    • Inspect the fuel quality.
    • Inspect the fuel pressure regulator 12-volt circuit for an intermittent short to ground. Observe the FRP regulator command percent while cranking. A range of 85-95 percent indicates a possible short to ground condition.
    • Inspect the fuel supply to the fuel injection pump.
    • Inspect the fuel system for a plugged fuel filter, high vacuum, air in the fuel system, etc.
    • Inspect for air in the fuel system.
    • Inspect for external fuel leaks.
    • Inspect for low fuel pressure. Command the fuel pressure to 180 MPa with a scan tool while the engine is at idle. If 180 MPa is not achieved, perform Fuel System Diagnosis - High Pressure Side.
    • Inspect the fuel supply system vacuum while the problem exists.
    • Inspect the engine speed signal circuit for high resistance.
    • If the ECM or a fuel injector has recently been replaced, it may be necessary to confirm the fuel injector flow rate values. Refer to Fuel Injector Flow Rate Programming. See: Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning
    • Inspect for restricted or plugged fuel injectors.
    • Inspect for a sticking Fuel Pressure Regulator. The symptom for this condition will be an idle surge of at least 100 RPM. This surge will be from 50 RPM above Desired Idle Speed to 50 RPM below Desired Idle Speed. Refer to Fuel Pressure Regulator Diagnosis. See: Component Tests and General Diagnostics\Fuel Pressure Regulator Diagnosis
    • Inspect the fuel tank cap vent for proper operation.
    • Engine mechanical for the following.
    • Improper valve timing
    • Bent pushrods
    • Worn rocker arms-Refer to Valve Rocker Arm and Shaft Cleaning and Inspection. See: Engine, Cooling and Exhaust\Engine\Service and Repair\Overhaul
    • Low engine compression-Refer to Engine Compression Test. See: Tune-up and Engine Performance Checks\Compression Check\Testing and Inspection
    • Broken or weak valve springs
    • Worn camshaft lobes-Refer to Camshaft and Bearings Cleaning and Inspection.
    • Excessive oil in the combustion chamber-Leaking valve seals-Refer to Oil Consumption Diagnosis. See: Engine, Cooling and Exhaust\Engine\Testing and Inspection\Component Tests and General Diagnostics
  1. If the above conditions do not address the symptom, refer to the additional symptoms tests.
Additional Symptoms Tests

Hard Start

  • Verify that the ECT has not shifted in value. Refer to Temperature Versus Resistance (EGR Temperature Sensors) Temperature Versus Resistance (ECT Sensors) Temperature Versus Resistance (Fuel Temperature Sensor) Temperature Versus Resistance (IAT Sensor 1) Temperature Versus Resistance (IAT Sensor 2) Temperature Versus Resistance (EGT Sensors).
  • Inspect for a slow cranking speed.
  • Verify the engine electrical system for correct operation. Refer to Symptoms - Starting and Charging. See: Starting and Charging\Testing and Inspection\Symptom Related Diagnostic Procedures\Symptoms - Engine Electrical
  • Verify that the driver is using the correct starting procedure as described in the owners manual.
  • Inspect for a restriction in turbocharger inlet duct.
  • Inspect for a restriction or a leak in the intake manifolds.
  • Inspect the exhaust system for a possible restriction.
  • Inspect for excessive crankshaft endplay that will cause the CKP sensor reluctor wheel to move out of alignment with the CKP sensor.
Hesitation, Sag, Stumble

  • Test the generator. Repair the charging system if the generator output voltage is less than 9 volts or more than 16 volts.
  • Inspect for excessive crankshaft endplay that will cause the CKP sensor reluctor wheel to move out of alignment with the CKP sensor.
Poor Fuel Economy

  • Heavy loads being carried or towed
  • Acceleration rate too much or too often
  • Inspect the brake system for brake drag.
  • Inspect the tires for the correct air pressure.
  • Inspect for incorrect operation of the speedometer.
  • Inspect for an air leak in the charge air cooler.
  • Inspect the air conditioning system for proper operation.
  • Suggest to the owner to fill the fuel tank and inspect the fuel economy.
  • Suggest to the driver to read the Important Facts on Fuel Economy in the Owner Manual.
  • Verify that the ECT has not shifted in value. Refer to Temperature Versus Resistance (EGR Temperature Sensors) Temperature Versus Resistance (ECT Sensors) Temperature Versus Resistance (Fuel Temperature Sensor) Temperature Versus Resistance (IAT Sensor 1) Temperature Versus Resistance (IAT Sensor 2) Temperature Versus Resistance (EGT Sensors).
Lack of Power, Hesitation, or Cut Out

  • Inspect the engine electrical system for correct operation.
  • Inspect for auxiliary fuel filters. Aftermarket fuel filters may restrict fuel flow.
  • Compare the vehicle with a similar unit. Ensure the vehicle has an actual problem.
  • Inspect for a proper transmission operation.
  • Inspect the engine oil level and quality.
  • Inspect for an air leak in the charge air cooler.
  • Inspect for a worn or damaged turbo charger turbine wheel, shaft or compressor wheel.
  • Inspect for a restriction in the charge air cooler.
  • Inspect for a skewed mass air flow (MAF) sensor.
  • Inspect that the exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valve is fully closing. Remove the EGR valve and visually inspect that there is no light seen between the valves and the valve seats.
  • Ensure that the EGR valve does not bind when manually moving the valve.
  • Inspect the torque converter clutch (TCC) operation.
  • Inspect the air conditioning system for proper operation.
  • Inspect the exhaust system for a possible restriction.
Rough, Unstable, or Incorrect Idle and Stalling

  • Inspect the engine mounts.
  • Inspect the intake and exhaust manifolds for casting flash.
  • The exhaust system for damaged or collapsed pipes
  • The exhaust manifold for a collapsed inner wall
  • The mufflers for heat distress or possible internal failure
  • EMI on the reference circuit can cause an engine miss condition. A scan tool can usually detect EMI by monitoring the engine RPM. A sudden increase in RPM, with little change in actual engine RPM change, indicates that EMI is present. If a problem exists, inspect routing of high voltage components, such as fuel injector wiring, near the sensor circuits.
  • Inspect the park neutral position (PNP) switch circuit.
Surges/Chuggles

  • Ensure the driver understands the torque converter clutch (TCC) operation.
  • Ensure the driver understands the A/C compressor operation.
  • Use the scan tool to ensure the vehicle speed sensor (VSS) reading matches the speedometer. This excludes vehicles with electronic transmissions where some variation between VSS and the speedometer is normal.
Fuel Knock/Combustion Noise

  • Inspect for obvious overheating problems.
  • Inspect for a low engine coolant level.
  • Inspect for any restricted air flow through the radiator.
  • Inspect for a malfunctioning or incorrect thermostat.
  • Inspect for a correct coolant solution. The solution should be a 50/50 mix of anti-freeze and water.
Excessive Smoke (Black)

  • The DPF is damaged and must be replaced. Inspect the following possible causes that may have damaged the DPF.
  • Inspect for an air leak in the charge air cooler or the air ducts between the turbocharger and the intake manifold.
  • Inspect for a restriction in the turbocharger charge air cooler.
  • Inspect for a restriction in the intake manifold.
  • Inspect for excessive oil entering the combustion chamber.
  • Inspect for a stuck open EGR valve.
Important: Do NOT drain the coolant at this time.


  • Remove the air inlet tube to the intake manifold. Perform steps 1-15.
  • Visually inspect the EGR valve and verify the valve is in the closed position.
  • Ensure that the EGR valve does not bind when manually moving the valve.
Excessive Smoke (White)

  • Check the coolant level in the reservoir. White coolant smoke may be mistaken for blue/gray smoke. If the coolant level is low, refer to Loss of Coolant. See: Engine, Cooling and Exhaust\Cooling System\Testing and Inspection\Symptom Related Diagnostic Procedures\Loss of Coolant
  • If excessive smoke is present, inspect for a stuck open fuel injector by performing the following procedure:
  1. Disconnect the CKP sensor.
  2. Remove the glow plugs.
Important: Do not stand in front of the glow plug holes while cranking the engine.


  1. Crank the engine while observing the glow plug holes for fuel spray.
  2. Replace the fuel injectors for the cylinders that spray fuel.
  3. Inspect for contaminated oil or high oil level.
    • If the ECM glow plug control module (GPCM) or a fuel injector has recently been replaced, it may be necessary to confirm the fuel injector flow rate values. Refer to Fuel Injector Flow Rate Programming. See: Testing and Inspection\Programming and Relearning
    • Inspect the fuel injectors.
Excessive Smoke (Blue, Gray, or White)

Blue, gray, or white smoke during regeneration may indicate a fuel with high sulfur content.

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2008 2500HD LT CCLB/Ally. Line-X, B&W Companion, MaxLoader Springs, Edge Insight CTS, Kennedy Custom ECM
2009 Arctic Fox 5er, Silver Fox Edition 29-5T, 3.6 Onan LPG, SteadyFast Stabilizers
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Old 05-03-2016, 12:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
Ron Nielson
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Your truck didn't get a little refuel with gasoline did it? Symptoms sound similar.
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2008 2500HD LT CCLB/Ally. Line-X, B&W Companion, MaxLoader Springs, Edge Insight CTS, Kennedy Custom ECM
2009 Arctic Fox 5er, Silver Fox Edition 29-5T, 3.6 Onan LPG, SteadyFast Stabilizers
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Old 05-03-2016, 08:08 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Gas in the tank was my first thought too.
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Old 05-03-2016, 12:01 PM   #5 (permalink)
justaguy
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I drove 100 miles, stopped and unloaded the truck. it idled and ran perfect. I then drove the return 100 miles and when I arrived at this end is when the problem began. if there was gas in fuel, would it not show up before that 200 mile mark? I have no idea how gas could have gotten in there as I am meticulous about checking however stranger things do happen. I did do a sniff test for gas when I changed the filter and can detect no gasoline odor at all.
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2004.5 gmc 2500 HD 6.6 duramax. waiting for transfer case rebuild 500,000 kilometres. My first Dmax. Duratuned running at +60 hp
2008 Chev Silverado 2500 HD 140,000 miles. My "OK, they are great now for a better one" factory stock.
2008 Chevy Cobalt 80,000 miles. My 'gopher' unit.
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Old 05-03-2016, 12:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
justaguy
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i am planning to purchase the automotive pc scantool to help with this as I have to begin somewhere in gathering better info. Does anyone know if this will help in a no start but cranking situation? in the meantime I guess drain and flush refill of the fuel system will have to do for the moment to eliminate the possible bad fuel/gas in fuel question.
the OBD scanner I have is simply for reading codes and is of little use for this job.
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2004.5 gmc 2500 HD 6.6 duramax. waiting for transfer case rebuild 500,000 kilometres. My first Dmax. Duratuned running at +60 hp
2008 Chev Silverado 2500 HD 140,000 miles. My "OK, they are great now for a better one" factory stock.
2008 Chevy Cobalt 80,000 miles. My 'gopher' unit.
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Old 05-03-2016, 03:52 PM   #7 (permalink)
Ron Nielson
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If you are the only driver, and no inadvertent gaso into the tank, don't bother with cleaning the tank. Did you scan for codes with your existing scanner? If you purchase a new scanner, be sure to get one that both scans and erases the codes. I would also suggest a subscription to ALLDATADIY, a wealth of information available about your truck at a price you can afford.

Any time I hear of a no start condition, I always think it's a problem with the fuel filter and/or supply lines. Our trucks have common problems with the fuel lines and filter head. If fuel is correctly supplied to the engine, they run quite reliably. I built my own lift pump with add'l fuel filter and have been very glad I did. Never had any fuel problems, not even towing my 12K trailer at 10K ft altitude on steep hills. Can't say for sure it's the lift pump, but it sure helps to eliminate/overcome problems with the fuel supply to the engine. And that takes a lot of problems off the table when you have engine problems, like you are having now.

Good luck with your problem.
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2008 2500HD LT CCLB/Ally. Line-X, B&W Companion, MaxLoader Springs, Edge Insight CTS, Kennedy Custom ECM
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Old 05-03-2016, 07:50 PM   #8 (permalink)
justaguy
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thanks Ron, I do believe I have eliminated the fuel system to the supply line test port by the alternator. When open and manual pump is pushed lots of fuel gushes out freely. no air. that is why I suspect either a fprv or fuel pressure regulator or, scarily, the cp3.
I have looked over a large number of posts on this site and a few others and have seen nothing described quite like I am experiencing. that may simply be that way it is explained.
I should have a bluetooth obd unit Wednesday evening and then will connect to a pc scantool program from the internet and hopefully that will prove if I have proper pressure or not.
__________________
2004.5 gmc 2500 HD 6.6 duramax. waiting for transfer case rebuild 500,000 kilometres. My first Dmax. Duratuned running at +60 hp
2008 Chev Silverado 2500 HD 140,000 miles. My "OK, they are great now for a better one" factory stock.
2008 Chevy Cobalt 80,000 miles. My 'gopher' unit.
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Old 05-28-2016, 07:15 AM   #9 (permalink)
justaguy
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update...
I got the blue driver, it showed about 5-6,000fuel rail pressure psi on cranking, 8000 when idling. still would not run well or long. I drained the tank, flushed out the system as best I could and put new clean fuel in. it took some time which I attributed to residual fuel in the rails and lines but it started, ran rough and slowly cleared up. when running over 11-1200 rpm it seamed to run smooth and strong but at idle it retained a definite miss with no codes thrown. I drove 250 km (140 miles) and the miss at idle would not go away. Then, while that far from home the idle got worse, starting became slightly more difficult. finally after being shut down for about 2 hours, when I tried to restart it would not start. My analyser showed zero fuel pressure. had a friend there how is a diesel mechanic but not familiar with the dmax who looked at it and he could not figure it out. We did eliminate the fprv as a possibility. It is now in a shop. The shop mechanic who has it stated that he has never seen a problem quite like this with the dmax before and he is familiar with them.
I should have an answer in the next few days, possibly tomorrow as that shop has the expensive analysers to get to the root of the issue.
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2004.5 gmc 2500 HD 6.6 duramax. waiting for transfer case rebuild 500,000 kilometres. My first Dmax. Duratuned running at +60 hp
2008 Chev Silverado 2500 HD 140,000 miles. My "OK, they are great now for a better one" factory stock.
2008 Chevy Cobalt 80,000 miles. My 'gopher' unit.
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Old 06-02-2016, 07:06 PM   #10 (permalink)
justaguy
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update and question;

after I believed I had the problem licked, believing it was bad fuel, 140 miles away problem returned and showed zero fuel pressure at the rail. it is in a shop, no the primary suspect is the fuel rail pressure sensor. everything indicates that we actually have fuel pressure but the sensor reads zero. does anyone have the specs for testing the sensor? It is kind of expensive to swap out on speculation.

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2004.5 gmc 2500 HD 6.6 duramax. waiting for transfer case rebuild 500,000 kilometres. My first Dmax. Duratuned running at +60 hp
2008 Chev Silverado 2500 HD 140,000 miles. My "OK, they are great now for a better one" factory stock.
2008 Chevy Cobalt 80,000 miles. My 'gopher' unit.
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