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Water/Meth injectionon a LML??

LML: 
39K views 41 replies 14 participants last post by  blaznhot_23 
#1 ·
Wanted to hear from LML owners that have installed water/meth injection on there trucks. Is any of the claims online true? Ive seen claims for stage #3 of 75-100 HP gains, 1-3 MPG increase, 300*F lower EGT. I would like to keep my drivetrain warranty. These claims seem like B.S. to me. Why would anyone buy a programmer lose there warranty, black smoke everywhere like a rebelling teenager, Cut all the exhaust out $$, if you could have numbers like that from a water / meth system? I would like to "wake up" the truck a bit. More interested in Towing Power than 4 wheel Smokeshows. My other Duramaxes have all had programers on them and drove very nice. Im leaning towards just going for it and deleting everything and getting a programmer for this one too if the water/meth injection is all B.S.
Thanks
 
#2 ·
Really??? Not one person has anything to say good or bad about the water/meth injection kits. Ok how about any year Duramax Diesel( not just LML ). --- Propane Injection???? I'm interested in doing something to the truck that wont leave a "signature" for GM to decline my powertrain warranty.
 
#4 ·
I installed mine 3 weeks ago, it works. I just don't have very good number jet to compare since I seldom run the same route, weight, or trailer. I have seen impressive gains, but the tank is way too small for me. Tomorrow I am installing an extra tank, it looks like I will need about 35 Gal to stay in tune with the fuel capacity I have (110 Gal).
 
#3 · (Edited)
theres a reason why propane has come and gone, it hurts engines.

yes, u can still find propane kits, but they're not as prevalent as they were back in 02-03 (the hay day of bully dog and trucks tv lol)
 
#5 ·
Wow 3:1 ratio Diesel to Water/Meth. I think the kit I was looking at was the "big" 7 gal tank. lol At 3:1 thats only about 21 Gal. of diesel or 3/4 of a tank of fuel and I would be out of water/meth. I guess towing would consume more and idling around town or easy driving would consume much less and mabey even none at all.
Thanks.
 
#6 ·
Wow 3:1 ratio Diesel to Water/Meth. I think the kit I was looking at was the "big" 7 gal tank. lol At 3:1 thats only about 21 Gal. of diesel or 3/4 of a tank of fuel and I would be out of water/meth. I guess towing would consume more and idling around town or easy driving would consume much less and mabey even none at all.
Thanks.
I still have to work on the settings. First of all I did not install the egt probe yet as I prefer not to make any drastic changes before the warranty is almost gone. The instructions say the economy mode is only based on boost psi. To start I has it set to start too early, but towing raises boost and therefore fluid use. I tow 80% of the time so my use would be heigher then most. One big change was that in rolling terrain it stays at the rpm's and gear, doesn't kick down as much.
 
#7 ·
Are we both talking about the Snow performance Diesel TOW-MAX kit or do you have a different kit?
 
#8 ·
I got the stage 3 kit, economy and tow option.
 
#9 ·
Hey guys. I have installed dozens of the Snow systems from the stage 2 and 3 series and now the tow max kits. All 3 of my trucks have the systems on them. I have dynoed with around 50-60rwhp results from my trucks and many customers cummins/dmax trucks. The 2.5 gallon reservoir is the most common source I install b/c of the space availability. I can say when towing, the truck will easily use the 2.5 gallons in less than 100 miles. Depends on nozzle choice and settings. If you set the cruise control, you can watch the accelerator back off proportionatly from the added power when the water injects. Theres the proof that the fuel is being impacted right there in the form of less throttle. I usually use straight water unless we are competing. The addition of 50% meth makes a huge difference.
 
#10 ·
Which kit would you recommend for most bang for buck. I looking for max HP/ Torque , for towing. And of course lower EGT, and better MPG. Want to feel it on the skinny pedal more than anything else.
Thanks
 
#11 ·
Hey Swinks, I would definitely recommend the Snow stage 3 tow max kit. The stage 2 kit only references boost so the EGT impact will not be as effective. You will certainly feel it in the accelerator w/o any question ;) good luck.
 
#16 ·
On Snow Performance website I found "Diesel TOW-MAX™" Kit but it does not say "Stage #3". Is this the same kit your talking about? Also on dmaxstore.com I found a kit that says "Snow Performance Stage 3 Diesel Boost Cooler™ GM Duramax" and another one "Snow Performance Diesel Stage 3 MPG-MAX-GM Duramax" Which one of these if any are what you are recommending? Or where have you bought yours from? Just dont want to pull my wallet out and find out 2 weeks later that it not the best kit for me.

Thanks
 
#12 ·
Doesn't GM take a torque reading from the transmission input shaft before any major repairs? I was under the impression that both that reading and a ecm snapshot were required. I have heard about excellent results with water/meth injection, but that scared me off.
 
#13 ·
Anyone got a picture of the nozzles installed on an LML? I would like see the best way of doing it. Not alot of room on the intake manifold with all the emissions crap.
 
#14 ·
Anyone got a picture of the nozzles installed on an LML? I would like see the best way of doing it. Not alot of room on the intake manifold with all the emissions crap.
No pic's yet, but I put them in the plastic tube after the air to air. It is reasonably thick and easy to tap. I just removed it and worked on it on the bench. Makes it less visible also.
I may still consider drilling the manifold, but not yet.
 
#15 · (Edited)
#17 ·
The Tow Max is the Stage 3 system now. The MPG Max is a little more advanced but I rarely have anyone ask for them. I have the Tow Max in all 3 of my trucks. I purchase my products from a wholesaler as I am a distributor/dealer of the Snow products. I am not authorized to sell on here so please dont ask. I can advise you to purchase through XDP though ;)
 
#18 ·
Ok one last question and its about cold weather and the kit. Of course I would need to run Water/Meth ( vs just water ) but is there going to be any problems with the pump running in the cold, lines brittle, water/meth tank brittle, solenoid? Each and every winter this kit will be in temps as low as -40 to -50 *C. I dont care so much if I can't run the kit in extreme temps I just dont want have to remove it and leave it in a heated shop 6 months of the year.
 
#19 ·
no concerns with the system whatsoever. The lines are the same material as heavy truck air brakes (synflex). With temps so low, you may want to drain the system out in the colder months. Most washer fluids only protect from freezing down to -25 degrees. Atleast in my area. At -50 degrees that fluid will definitely freeze.
 
#20 ·
Ordered Tow Max yesterday through XDP. When it comes in I'll install it and report back with real world data ( MPG, EGT ) I would only guessing with HP and Torque as I'm not going to be dyno testing.
 
#21 ·
OK so I installed the tow max water / methanol kit a few days ago and I am still experimenting with it ( injector sizes, injection rates, etc). Happy with the kit and yes you can really feel more power when the system starts to inject. I'm using just one injector ( 625ml/min. ) set to "Medium" boost range 18psi+ and injection rate at 100%. This set up seems to be working great with no engine quenching. If I set the boost level to "Low" 7Psi + it drowns the engine unless I turn the injection rate down to 50%. One thing I'm not happy with or dont understand is how to inject at a low rate at low boost range ( so you dont flood the engine) and be able to progressively inject larger and larger amounts till boost levels rise to max. I was using a 50/50 water/meth mix and dont have any MPG # yet. still playing. Have not towed with system yet but did several WOT up hill runs 0-160km/h and could not get to 1200*F. Very close but did not see 1200*F once.
 
#22 ·
I will tell you that if you need answers to anything related to the 6.5 or 6.2L, Heath Diesel is the go-to guy. Bill and his son Joe have given me some invaluable advice on many things. They seem like really nice guys too. I mentioned in a previous post about getting a lot of work done; Scheid Diesel did the work; the did an awsome job. If you are within 100 miles or so of their locations I'd certainly think seriously about letting them do the work you need on your truck.
 
#23 ·
Swinks, do you have any tuner on that truck? I am running 2-625ml nozzles with my H&S and have 0 problem with quenching even at lower boost levels. The only method I have become acustomed to for low boost adjustment is to change the nozzle to the smaller size option or turn the pump pressure down. Either way, it effects the entire spectrum though. I also run straight water most times too. Honestly, on most DMaxes I install the larger 2 nozzles with any level tuner w/o issue. But, my LML is my first install to that application and so far the only at this point.
 
#24 ·
No tuner on this one. My truck is stock. If I just hammer the go petal I don't think it would quench, but gradually increasing boost (accelerating) the water/meth comes on too hard and the truck bucks and kicks with one 625 ml/min. @ 100% injection rate. I know it could handle more between 18-31 psi. I'm thinking of running the 375 ml/min. On the low boost level (7psi +) @ 100% injection rate then putting a pneumatic controled solenoid fed from the boost line to a 2nd 625 ml/min. Set to open @ about 18 psi. So I would have 375 ml/min. Running everything above 7 psi to max, and the 625 would open at 18 psi to max along with the 375. That's want I came up with so I could have no quenching down low and lots of injection up high without having to adjust the controller everytime.
 
#25 ·
It is my understanding that Water/Meth is great for the open highway whereas propane is going to get you up to speed while trying to get on the freeway / interstate.
 
#26 ·
Anyone having proplems with water/meth during a regen? Mine has done 2 regens so far with the kit installed and both times idling very rough ( almost stalling ) and shuddering when taking off. Also it starts like a powerjoke. Has to turn over like 5-10 times then knocks ramping up to idle speed.This only happens during a regen. Even with unit powered off. I have the 7 gal. tank mounted in the box of my truck and NO solenoid shut off. It did not come with the kit 48103 Tow Max even though it showed 2 of them in the picture. Also did not come with low level indicator, which was also in the picture. This system cost me about $1,000.00 after I paid tax then shipping then UPS shipping charge to Canada. Now I'm reading I'm suppose to have a $59.00 soleniod that is going to cost $120.00 plus 2 1/2 weeks to ship it here. This should have been made clear while ordering the system not in the back yard installing the system. I'll be shopping at the local hobby store for one. Is there something that could be causing a vacuum in the intake at idle during regen? Or some other reason that this is happening only during regen. Seems like its taking a drink of water and I cant stop it ( without shut off soleniod ) Also without the low level indicator I'll be towing blind and if I run out of water/meth did I just buy myself another pump? If it sounds like I'm trash talking the system I am NOT. I do like the system I just have a few issues that are most likely simple solution to a simple problem.
 
#27 ·
I think you may be on to something there??? When the truck goes into regen, the throttle valve closes (blocking positive boost pressure), this "may" create a negative pressure within the intake plenum resulting in the "siphoning" effect you speak of (bc ur nozzles are probably post TV assembly) ;). Add that solenoid asap with the tank in the bed. I had my motor hydrolock on me when I first installed the water system bc the water bled passed the pump over night and filled number 7 cylinder when I parked on an incline (bed higher than nose). This wasnt on my LML, it was on my dually. The dually has the 7 gal reservoir in the bed, inside my toolbox. Once I installed the solenoid, all was fine again.
 
#28 ·
A throttle body, is that what that is between the oil dipstick and the alternator in the first picture? Thought diesel regulated air by boost pressure only. Maybe something to do with the regen process like 403DMAX said. Maybe this is also why I'm quenching at low boost / rpm cause I drilled and tapped my boost line after the turbo but before the intercooler and maybe more important before the throttle body. My "measured" boost pressure most likely is higher than real boost entering the engine. When it starts to inject at 7psi+ (measured pressure) the engine might only be geting 4psi. When I get time I'll drill a boost line 1 inch upstream of injecting line. See if it helps with quenching.
 

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#32 ·
On mine I took off the resonator and am tapping 3 holes n the section it covers, in direction of flow turbo to motor I am putting boost line, 175 econ nozzle and then 625 power nozzle from the solenoid. I dont understand your install swinks, did you use the solenoid or are you going directly from pump to 1 625 nozzle? I should have mine finished sometime today and will post back with results (I am 5g soot away from a regen so should know soon).

Snowperf, can my stock LML with no tune take all 3 nozzles or should I go to the 375 on the power nozzle?
 
#33 ·
Snow was very helpfully and more than willing to send me a new check valve, but I had called Snow back and declined the new check valve. I have lots of 1/4" check valves at my work and needed one now. I live in Canada and it could have been 2 weeks before I got it. I did installed my own new check valve. The check valve requires 2 PSI before it will open to flow in the direction its supposed to flow and of course will not flow back wards. I would think Snows check valve would be very similar. Thus preventing gravity free flow into intake. ( which was happening with the faulty check valve I had before ). Had 2 regens since new check valve and not a single problem, works perfectly now. ANFO - I have the tow max kit and it does not include any solenoids.I'm going right from pump to the new check valve then the .625 injector. The new check valve in my way of thinking would work best being as close to the injector as possible. Thats where I put it about 6" ( upstream) of the injector.
Does anyone have a stock LML and know what injector(s) work best? I'm thinking of adding another one but dont know if maybe I'll over shoot and just quech with too much injecting. .625 is working great but maybe another .375 would be better or might be too much. Dont want my intaketo look like a pin cushon with trial and error holes everywhere.
 
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