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Preturbo injection

4K views 17 replies 12 participants last post by  Mike_S 
#1 ·
been talkin to some guys on other sites.

they been settin up Water/meth set ups usin injector nozzles BEFORE the turbo,

also they Dont use a pump,and controller.

they use actual boost pressure and a special fuel aeration nozzles(pumps boost into a resivoir tank,and a small bypass of air into the nozzles(extrmly fine spray of liquid), also a solenoid&pressure sensor to shut off flow when not on boost.

claim is any where from 50-100hp dependin on water/meth mix!!

say its cheap to do. parts from Grainger and Home depotETC.

what do you think?????
 
#2 ·
Running a water/meth mist threw there turbo doesn't sound good to me. I would think this would cause vane wear and screw up there turbo,killing it in the long run but I'm no expert. I'd like to hear others opinions.
 
#3 ·
what i can google,, is water/meth injection before turb. is how injection was done long ago, sayin compressor wheel makes vaporization more complete before it gets into chamber, somethin like a homogenized mixture,much better mixed and blended. sounds like OK!

searchin further,, Volvo,and Saab, had some turbo cars with preturb injection systems,
and after long tests, said after 100K miles, yes wheel showed at slight amount of edge wear, did NOT hurt performance or boost,, conclusion was maybe at 200K turb might need service, but still performed within limits.

need more research and info on this subject,, some guys are sayin it saved there motor!
 
#4 ·
speakin on this concept,, just yesterday, was out with my diesel car,(weather around Austin Tx. TERRIBLE cold and wet rain,, and noticed my boost was comin in around 150-200rpm earlier. I use an LED light for notification then look at gauge for amount.
any good talk on what was takin place?? this was with NO injection on, not drivin fast in road conditions,, but the torque was noticable on hills
 
#5 ·
You're gonna be sandblasting the the vanes of the turbo with the water meth molecules. Not good.
 
#6 ·
You will have to research the specs on the air atomizing nozzle to see how fine of particle sizes you can get. Problem I see is that if truck makes say 28psi of boost, that is most pressure you will build in a tank. So you will only have 28psi on the input side of the nozzle. That is not very much pressure to atomize the fluid. You might be in the 60-70 micron range which would be on the low side of a rain drop for size comparison.
 
#7 ·
I do respect your information and results on W/M injection,using your systems.

but one of the guys setup a pressure operated system with the W/M and air mixed in the nozzle and just sprayed it out into atmosphere, it sure looked fine, using compressed air regulated to 20psi, and of course then it goes into the turbo and becomes way mixed into a homogenized vapor.

he sayin dynoed he got around 50hp more before light detonation knock started,as boost was upped.

anyway im open to any other info on this type of Auxillary W/M injection

i asked where he got idea, he said light gas engine aircraft magazine, thinkin if it works on gas engine might work on diesel! you know water is water and alcohol is alcohol

on my personal diesel car,(im using the conventional nozzle in inlet elbow right at intake manifold with shrflow and vari. controller) any thing over 30% alcohol its comes into audible knock around 15psi, its a turbo add on so compression is high!

it works ok, but im lookin for earlier boost with out changin turbine A/R.

im just playin around with stuff,you know how that goes, im retired and NO not goin into any business, or tryin to upset any apple carts
 
#9 ·
I have been using pre-turbo with a normal pump. Many people have talked about aerated nozzles, but I haven't seen any info on it. One thing to think about, if the nozzle is in the right place. Non-aerated nozzles in the m1-m2 area get down to 10-20 microns. That is smaller than your air filter can absolutely, and sometimes nominally filter. So, yes, you may be sandblasting your turbo, but you've been doing it since you bought it.
 
#10 ·
Thanks,, Shaman,, good information.

I have observed, when a new and shiny compressor wheel goes into service, on a stock filter application, after 6 months its shows signs of dullness, that is without any auxialry injection system.

so even stock filters let something thru,

i have seen big rigs show dull and worn edges after 100,000miles, but still perform good.
 
#12 ·
don't worry about wear on the turbo, the soot from the egr does far more damage then water/meth. As far as pooling in the cac, as long as the cac is 212 or higher, the water can't pool. As soon as you drop boost the water turns to steam. I have read numbers in the 400 degree range coning out of the turbo, with preturbo injection you would be deep into dry steam at that point.
 
#13 · (Edited)
One thing to remember, is that the CAC will actually be warming the air back up when spraying preturbo. Preturbo injection will also be useful at low speeds, or after long lights, when the CAC is just getting warmed up.

Hard off a long light. CAC is warming things up. Preturbo will be cooling them down. Low speed, CAC isn't going to help much.
 
#15 ·
if u were to do it pre intercooler, i would figure the water would gather on the inside of the intercooler and create droplets of water, i could see doin it if there were no inercoller
 
#16 ·
Actually Pre-Turbo is the best place to do water injection. It has been proven by thermal imaging and many flow testing that injecting pre turbo water spray at high pressures, such as 150 to 500psi is far more beneficial to air cooling than post turbo. Reason being is that if you look at the turbo and what it does to the air supply coming into the engine. A turbo essentially compresses air and forces it into the engine. When air is compressed it becomes heated. At the pressures made, the small amount of air is vastly heated. If water is injected in very high pressures, the size of the droplets are so small, the turbine vanes hardly notice its existence. The heat generated by the turbo vaporizes these small droplets creating something of a fogging effect to the intake air. There is a heat and energy engineer who sells all kinds of kick ass parts for our trucks that just completely increases the efficiency of them in multiple aspects. Anything from intercoolers to oil coolers. If you want, I can forward some info from him.
 
#18 ·
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