harmonic balancer failing

0lee · Apr 26, 2006

Just found out that my balancher is failing

It looks very much like posted here: http://dieselplace.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1051667&postcount=7

The rubber is coming out on the back. If I press it a little with my fingers, it feels very soft and I can squeeze it.

I was looking at it about a week or two ago and it seemed to be ok, but I can be mistaken. Do they fail that quickly?

Can I still drive or should I better not before replacing it?

When replacing the balancher, does the water pump have to come off? I would do the '97 cooling upgrade when replacing, but it will probably take long to get the parts for that. So if the water pump has to come off anyway, I'll need a set of gaskets. What about the crankshaft seal? I'll try to get one, is it one part/gasket or several parts?

The oil cooler lines also start to leak ...

stingthieves · Apr 26, 2006

no time

I have one in the box at my feet - It just doesn't install itself

GM part number 10154688

0lee · Apr 26, 2006

Yeah, it would be nice if it did

My local supplier has the balancher on stock. He'll find out if he can get the cooling upgrade.

Can I still drive or will the balancher like suddenly fail and leave me with a broken crankshaft?

0lee · Apr 26, 2006

Should I also replace the pulley that is on the crankshaft?

guybb3 · Apr 26, 2006

From what the guys on here have said, you should replace it or risk the crank breaking. A few have band aided them along for a week or two but I wouldn't.

mp4037 · Apr 26, 2006

I just replaced mine...i have some photos that I took as I did the job if you need them.

Kudos to the guys that do this type of work daily!! I started friday night and finished up Sunday evening. Not all in one stretch but it still took longer than I thought. I replaced some hoses and pulled the raditor out and cleaned that up as well.

Don't forget to get the crank seal. The hardest things were torquing the balancer nut back down to 200 ft. lbs. I wasn't able to do that...I did use some lock-tight though.

I would have liked to replace the timing chain and do the pitman and idler arms in the same job but I was too worried about the balancer to wait 2-3 more weeks till I had the time and parts to do them all together.

It didn't fix the weird vibration like i'd hoped but I do feel better that the engine might not fly apart for a little bit longer.

0lee · Apr 26, 2006

Yeah, some pics would be great! And as you mention it, I'll also need the torque specs required to do the job.

How many miles did you drive with the balancher failing? It might take two or three weeks before I get all the parts, or even longer, though I might be able to get the balancher sooner. I'm doing about 620 miles each week.

Did you have to take the water pump off?

mp4037 · Apr 26, 2006

I'll post some pics as soon as i'm able to.

On my truck the water pump didn't have to come off.

I drove a couple of weeks after noticing that it didn't look so good but it had probably looked like that for awhile.

Make sure that you use a balancer puller tool and an installer tool. Those make the job fun!

0lee · Apr 26, 2006

Thanks! That'll be a great help.

BTW, how does the installer and the puller tool look like? There are no stores here that carry them.

When reinstalling, what's the recommended way to lock the engine so that it doesn't turn over when torquing the nut?

mp4037 · Apr 29, 2006

http://dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62864&highlight=harmonic

Here are a few photos to go with the steps from the post in the link above.

This was where I got stuck for awhile. I finally saw that nice little hole in the frame where I could stick my breaker bar. I disconnected the fuel run solenoid and just tapped the starter a couple of time to break that bolt loose.

Balancer Puller

Backside of the old and new balancer

Frontside. I don't know how bad of shape mine was in but the rubber was all swelled up, soft and uneven. I'm glad I replaced it.

New crank seal.

Harmonic Balancer Installer...made this part of the job a snap.

Maybe one of the pros could chime in on the secret to getting that bolt, that is holding the balancer, torqued back down to 200lbs. I torqued it as best as I could and then used some of the blue locktight. Someone locally suggested using a screwdriver and sticking it somewhere in a hole near the starter and holding it against one of the teeth on the flywheel but I didn't see any hole that they were talking about.

Hope this helps!

gmctd · Apr 29, 2006

Show-'n-tell rules!

Sure looks like a water-pump failure comin' on in that pic of the crank seal - that stuff drainin' out from behind the pulley.........

FYI - antifreeze and Diesel fuel is what softens the rubber, over time.

mp4037 · Apr 29, 2006

I was hoping someone would comment on that. I had slow drip in that spot so I replaced the lower raditor hose...so far so good. I hope thats all that it was. The night before I started to work on the truck sprayed the front of the block with some engine cleaner and it was still a little wet. The flash from the camera makes that crud look worse than it is. From that photo it does look like the pump might be leaking as well

I'll keep an eye on it.

Quick question....can you hear and feel the water pump if it is going bad?

0lee · Apr 29, 2006

Thanks for the pics and the explanation, they are great!

Maybe we can put this info into the FAQ? It'll help everyone who's about to replace the balancher.

Anyone on how to block the engine to tighten the nut on the balancher without turning over the engine? 270 Nm is a lot ...

My supplier also has the balancher puller on stock for little money, so I ordered it along with a new balancher and a new gasket.

If the bearing on the water pump fails, you should be able to hear it. The sound it makes is hard to describe, it is like a regular clonking changing its interval with RPMs, getting worse over time.

bobbiemartin · May 3, 2006

0lee said:
Anyone on how to block the engine to tighten the nut on the balancher without turning over the engine? 270 Nm is a lot ...

I realize not everyone has one in their toolbox, but the best way I know is to use a main or rod bearing shell wedged on the flywheel teeth. Its soft enough so it won't damage the flywheel but strong enough to work. You have to remove the cover, which requires removing the crossover pipe, but I can do that in 20 minutes or so on my 2WD Sub.

nickg · Apr 29, 2006

A bearing that starts failing on a waterpump makes a growling noise, You can't hear it as well on a v-8 as a front wheel drive car (on a car it makes a lot of engine noise) BUT on a V-8 with the engine off grab the fan and try to lift up and push down if you can move it is likely shot and seal failure is likely to happen soon, a very small amount (very small) is OK just keep monitoring it. also during the "wiggling test" look for play in the fan clutch this can be mis-diagnoised as water pump play. Finally you can use a stethascope or screwdriver to listen to the pump bearing as the engine is running (use caution not to hit moving parts) the noise should be smooth and quiet, if your unsure listen to the alternator/idler or AC and compare the noises to get an idea of how it should sound,
Hope this helps to give an idea of water pump condition.

Nick

BUZZ 1273 · Apr 30, 2006

To hold the engine while torque to 20-0 ft#'s I used 2 bolts in the balancer and a piece of angle iron, turn it till the iron rests on a solid foundation and torque away.
Buzz

0lee · May 2, 2006

Hm, that's a good idea

But there must be some way to do it proposed by the manufacturer. Anyone with a shop manual that tells you how to do it?

ddbackhoe · May 2, 2006

I used a bar on the flywheel.

0lee · May 2, 2006

Hm, do you have to remove the starter to get at the flywheel?

BTW, am I right with 270 Nm for torquing the nut on the crankshaft? I'm reading 200lbs and 200 ft lbs., but the conversion tools don't list ft lbs. They list things like lbf ft, lbf in, pdl in and pdl ft, and some more. Then, there may be different specifications of how much a pound is.

This is very confusing. 270 Nm? 23 Nm? That's quite a difference ...

chrisk1500 · May 2, 2006

Good conversion charts here to go from lb/ft to NM....http://www.tdiclub.com/misc/conversions.html

gmctd · May 3, 2006

Yep - 200ftlbs or 270nm - use a screwdriver or chisel in the flywheel teeth against the transmission case bellhousing, or a box\open wrench, box end on a tc-bolt, open end to the edge of the bellhousing, facing in the direction of rotation.

'Nother words - get a linear force against the bolt, not a rotational force, which would loosen or tighten the bolt.

stingthieves · May 4, 2006

Just a few part numbers to share!!!!!
1982-1993 6.2 harmonic balancer from ATP aftemarket part number 102059
also fits 1992-93 6.5 turbo
1994-2002 6.5 turbo part number ATP 102051 Dorman part number 594-037
1988-2002 serpentine pulley ATP part number 102106 = bolts to the 102059 and 102051
Prices may vary at you local parts store but for those with an "aversion" to the dealer - their ya go!
Kind Regards Rick

0lee · May 4, 2006

Thanks for the info!

Parts arrived today, but instead sending the balancher, they sent the pulley

They also sent a timing cover gasket set from Felpro. It contains a gasket that might be the one for the crankshaft, but I'm not sure. I'll have to call them tomorrow ...

Since I now got a new pulley, I might install it as well _if_ it fits. It's rather heavy ... There's a number hand-written on the package: PIO DA3950, and on the pulley itselfe, it says KOREA 496 (or 488??) 5012508. And there's a sticker on the package: Harmonic balancher, 594-037, 2000-946.5L (395) Diesel, Chevrolet, GMC Truck, www.DormanProducts.com. Hmmm ...

Must be this one: http://www.dormanproducts.com/cgi-b..._amount=999999999.99&start=18&vfrom=&prev=no&vnext=yes&category_list=1376:118:0

They don't seem to have the one I need. Hmmmm ...

chickenhunterbob · May 4, 2006

Lee,

You have the pulley, now you need the balancer...and should also change the front crankshaft oil seal while you're at it.

They have what you need...

http://www.dormanproducts.com/cgi-bin/vm91corp30r/item-dtl.w?sid=0x0165a415&item=594-170&clt=hwrap1&vsrch_str=harmonic%20balancer&vsrch_brand=ALL&vsrch_cat=ALL&st_amount=0&end_amount=999999999.99&start=108&vfrom=&prev=yes&vnext=yes&category_list=:0

0lee · May 4, 2006

chickenhunterbob said:
Lee,

You have the pulley, now you need the balancer...and should also change the front crankshaft oil seal while you're at it.

Yes, I ordered that seal and got the timing cover gasket set. I have to find out if it actually contains the seal I need.

They have what you need...

http://www.dormanproducts.com/cgi-bin/vm91corp30r/item-dtl.w?sid=0x0165a415&item=594-170&clt=hwrap1&vsrch_str=harmonic%20balancer&vsrch_brand=ALL&vsrch_cat=ALL&st_amount=0&end_amount=999999999.99&start=108&vfrom=&prev=yes&vnext=yes&category_list=:0

Great

That makes it easier to tell my supplier what I need. I hope they have it on stock! I can't wait the two weeks it would take if they have to backorder.

Hm, on the pic on the website, it looks as if the rubber already comes out of the new balancher.

0lee · May 14, 2006

To update, the new balancher has been installed yesterday. Thanks to the great support from here, I could prepare well for it, and it went flawless, took about three hours.

Part # for the crankshaft gasket is:

ACD: 296-01 (that's probably the ACDelco #)
GM: 10191640

Anyone doing it, get the balancher puller tool, your screwed without it. To install the new balancher, get a 16x1.5 mm screw, about 120mm in lengh, put the balancher in place and use the screw and a washer (original washer does it) to screw the balancher on.

Thanks again for all your help!

harmonic balancer failing

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