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Low on boost, down on power? Check your crossover pipe!

34K views 25 replies 16 participants last post by  JeffM920  
#1 ·
Rather long post, but if you think you have issues with power, boost, or MPG, this might prove a worthwhile read. Just thought I'd make a little info post for those here who might not be aware of the critical nature of the crossover pipe on the 6.5 It takes the exhaust from the drivers side manifold, passes under the engine, and up into the passenger side exhaust manifold where it meets the passenger side exhaust, and then feeds the turbo.

This can be a particularly problematic pipe on the 6.5 - they are exposed to quite a lot of road blast as well as road debris you might run over. Combine the two together (especially if you live in an area where they use salt on the roads in the winter months) your crossover could be leaking.

A leaking crossover will cause a few issues - lower boost, increased fuel consumption, and decreased power. A small leak might not even be easily evident unless you look under your engine, but sometimes (if the leak is bad) you can hear it when you pass another car or a concrete barrier on the side of the road while you have your foot into it - you'll hear a hissing or whooshing type noise being reflected from under your truck back up into your passenger side window.

A leak at the flanges (where the pipe meets the manifolds) will (without fail) leave black soot everywhere - usually it's the seal "donuts" that have failed and are no longer making a tight seal, but sometimes (as my pictures will show) the pipe can actually rot out at the flange.

Also not uncommon is the pipe rotting out completely. This can result in a "blow out" while you're driving (which is what happened to me) and then you loose a huge portion of your boost because of the hole in the pipe. If you happen to be towing at the time it's not much fun - ask me how I know. ;)

The most dangerous situation is that your pipe is rotting in such a way that a flake of rust comes off inside the pipe and is ingested by the turbocharger - it can be a VERY expensive situation.

Lastly, a leaking crossover pipe on the passenger side flange can melt your starter wiring and be a potential fire hazard due to the heat and (if the leak is bad enough ) flames..

So, what to do? Crawl under your truck and inspect it - it's dead easy - check both ends at the flanges to see if there's any black soot - if there's soot, then you have a leak - could be simple (the donuts) or the pipe could be rotted at the flange itself.

Also, carefully inspect the full length of the pipe - check for any major rust or spots where it appears the pipe is thinning. Don't poke and prod too much with the truck not running as you don't want to accidentally push anything (if there IS a huge rust spot or hole) into the pipe for the turbo to suck it in.

In the end, if you see signs of leakage or impending failure, get the pipe replaced. It cost me about $90 for the pipe at the GM dealer. Preferably, replace it with a mandrel bent replacement from one of the aftermarket dealers, but in my case (and perhaps the case of others if time is a concern and you can't wait for a pipe to arrive in the mail) the GM pipe is available of course. The donuts were about $20 a piece from GM - replace them no matter what - no sense in putting on a new pipe onto to reinstall potentially leaky seals.

Doing the job yourself in your own driveway is a realistic option but beware of the bolts - the passenger side ones especially (due to the heat on that side) are notorious for seizing up and if you break one, it can get fun quick. In my case, I paid an exhaust shop for the replacement, and yes, one bolt DID end up breaking in the exhaust manifold so it tuned out to be money well spent.

The results? WOW, apparently my leak at the flange had been slowly getting worse (blowout aside) at a pace where I didn't really notice the slow loss of boost and power. With the new pipe on I can hear the turbo spool up with even light acceleration around town 3-5 PSI just pulling away from a red light. My power is back (both empty and towing) and I'm confident my MPG will see improvement as well since I was having to *really* hammer on it for onramp acceleration and even uphills in the city - towing, don't even ask - it was bad.

So, here's a few pics:

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The above is the new crossover in place.

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The old crossover with the "blow out" on the corner. This is a prime area where the road salt rusts the pipe as it's a thin spot (due to the bend).

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The opposite corner of the pipe, also showing the impending rust hole - on inspection after we were all done I was able to stick a screwdriver through this spot with ease - another blowout wasn't far off.

Last but not least, the pic below was a "hidden" leak at the exhaust flange on the passenger side - you can see where the flange actually rusted out and exhaust was whistling through this hole because it had actually ate through and damaged the donut:

Image
 
#11 ·
Thanks. Too the pics with my iPhone4 (it has an awesome camera, unlike my old iPhone 3G). I almost forgot to take pics at all (I should have taken more!) but at the last second before we finished up I grabbed my phone and snapped these.

Looking back on it I kick myself for not taking pics of the soot on the manifold where the donuts had been leaking and the old pipe when it was still actually installed, but I think the point gets across none the less.
 
#5 ·
Thanks for sharing privatepilot! Will be checking mine ASAP, because as we discussed in my towing thread, I think I may have the same problem.
 
#6 ·
Good post. Mine was dooing the same thing around the drivers side flair. Turned out the flair just split right underneith the flange. Of course at that time my WG solenoid wasent working either ;)
 
#7 ·
Do you have pics of the donuts you were talking about?
 
#8 ·
Image

:D
 
#13 ·
so i need to start at the pipe and go from there. my 1500 suburban would blow a lil smoke before i replaced the air filter. also when i took my intake hose off my turbo there was some type of oil all aover the inside of the turbo and inside the air intake hose
 
#14 · (Edited by Moderator)
Oil inside the turbo can be coming from two places - the crankcase ventilation system (in which case you may have excessive blow-by) or from the turbo bearings themselves letting oil past into the turbo itself.

Either way, start a new thread on that - separate issue from an exhaust leak.
 
#16 ·
There have also been occasions of the stock crossover collapsing.
Since its a double wall construction,the inner wall can collapse with no outward signs visable.
If on a drive with everything up to temp and a sudden splash from a large puddle that reaches that pipe, could be enough of a tepmature shock as to colapse the inner pipe.
 
#18 ·
do you think a leaking crossover pipe/ donout will throw a p0236 code as driving down the road i heard a sudden hiss/pop and today its turned into a definite exhaust leak near the donout and as the leak gets worse the service engine soon light comes ans stays on more, it turns off at sustained runs above 1800rpms (65mph) though?
 
#19 ·
That is a possibility. I had a leaking crossover at the drivers side donut gasket. I kinda suspected a leak as one day I remote started the truck and the wind was blowing just right to see a cloud of smoke come out fron under the truck at the front. I was getting the p0236 as well. Since the pipe was not that old it was simply a matter of installing a new donut gasket and the code has not come back since. I suspect my crossover was leaking mildly for 18 months or more. I have an unmentionable turbo and although it would get up to 15 lbs boost it took a while to get there. I also had massive smoke off the line on a hard acceleration. And the dreaded turbo lag. now that the pipe is repaired I get minimal smoke and boost comes up fast and it now pulls a lot harder than with the exhaust leak.
 
#20 ·
Very good write up, we just discused this in my thread where i have no 0psi of boost pressure, this helps a lot in trouble shooting and i have a 2.5" cross over on order (gotta love income tax returns) along with other items.

Good write up, you are always right on with the information
 
#21 ·
Crossover leak...

I just replaced my starter and while under the truck I noticed my crossover pipe is loose to the touch on both sides at the flanges:eek: I have been chasing the black smoke thing going on with my suburban while towing my camper while loading it up (makes sense now) for some time now...I started hearing a slight leak when I had the windows down and it seemed to be getting worse, even started billowing out smoke at around 50MPH while going into overdrive (not towing anything)..After looking into it more I noticed one flange bolt on each side was busted off (been that way for a while, previous owner had exhaust done) Looks like it will go to a exhaust shop and get a new crossover installed the right way, I'm assuming they will be able to drill out and re-tap the busted bolts in the manifold flange and not try to sell me a new set of manifolds due to the damaged flanges ??

I was told since I have upgraded marine injectors supplying 25-30% more fuel that I would most likely have the black smoke issues all the time when under load due to the excess fuel being dumped in?
 
#22 · (Edited)
Any exhaust shop worth their salt should have NO problem drilling out the busted bolts and cleaning up the threads.

Use the proper donuts and have them put some high-temp sealant on them before putting the crossover back in place and bolting it in - along with the new donuts it just aids a little more in creating a perfectly leakproof seal.

As for the marine injectors thing, well...read up on them here - they're a lot of snake oil, and some are genuine junk - I hope you got quality ones from a reputable source, otherwise you may have done yourself a huge disservice installing them.

As for fuel - You're not getting any more fuel whatsoever. The injection pump controls how much fuel the engine gets, not the injectors. Often the only difference on these "marine" injectors is that the popoff pressure is set higher - some have larger nozzles, but again, unless you run a tuned ECM that tells the ECM to inject more fuel, the injectors alone have ZERO ability to do it on their own.

Once you get the crossover fixed you should have NO problems with smoke any longer. Whoever told you to expect smoke after you installed those injectors doesn't know what they're talking about - you can overfuel the 6.5 a lot and even with the stock turbo, so long as it's working properly (tight pre-turbo, proper wastegate functionality) and it won't smoke.

You'll want to get this fixed ASAP, or at least keep your foot out of it to avoid the black smoke until you do - black smoke creates HUGE EGT's on the 6.5 and the 6.5 does not tolerate it well.
 
#23 ·
The injectors don't control the fuel rate,the IP does.

Marine injectors have the potential to deliver more fuel,but not without the mechanical marine IP delivering that extra fuel-the stock IP cannot take advantage of the available increase the injectors provide.
 
#24 ·
In Need of Manifolds soon...

Well, Had my crossover leak fixed, both flanges had to be drilled out and studs replaced.Discovered a different huge donut gasket (wrong one) was on the drivers side flange as well.Mechanic at the shop sugested I start looking for a set of replacement manifolds soon, may also be leaking slightly on the side with the Turbo somewhere? But the overall condition of the manifolds are not too good (rusted and maybe pitting with small holes)

Any recommended places to get a good quality set of manifolds without breaking the bank is MUCH appreciated??