i currently own 6 duramax's for my landscaping company, and i love the trucks. but i plow in the winter and some of the clients that i plow for have been complaining about the diesel clatter. so i have been pondering adding a few 8.1's to the fleet. but what i need to know is, what are you guys with the 8.1's pulling for mileage on the highway, and pulling? i mean with these low fuel costs i dont wanna drop 40,000 on a truck and spend another 500 a week in fuel costs. another question for you would be, how do you guys like your 8.1's? any reply, negative or positive would be greatly appreciated.




thanks

travis

I love mine. Lots of power whenever I need it.

However, the next truck will be a diesel. Even with the slightly higher diesel prices in my area, I'll save about $1,600 a year in fuel costs over the 8.1 gas.

I average right at 10 MPG around town. That's for a 2500 4x4 with a ladder rack and large tool box. Rack and tools add 1,350 pounds for my 'empty weight. I just got back yesterday from a 1,000+ mile round trip to Detroit. Pulled a 12' enclosed tandem trailer - trailer and gear ran about 4,500 to 5,500 pounds total. Milage at a steady 65 MPH ranged from 9.6 to 10.1. In the past, when hauling a 20' flatbed loaded with 5 or 6 ATV's, I'd get anywhere from 7.3 to 9.5. With pulling those kind of loads the truck will stay in 5th gear except for a few hills. Mine is mated to the Allison 5-speed tranny.

Overall I am very pleased with the 8.1. My two previous 2500's each had the 5.7L. The 8.1 has much more power, although it gets about 2 MPG less then the smaller V-8's. I have compared my 8.1 to several others that I know of with the 6.0. Basically the 6.0 will get better milage when empty but once loaded will get the same as the 8.1 without the all the extra power.

90% of the time my trucks are never empty. if they are towing, the load will either be a 25' enclosed pull behind, or a 35 foot tri-axle flat bed with a skid loader and/or various blocks. Right now my guys say the diesels average about 16 miles per gallon, if the 8.1's only get about 10 maybe i will just add one to my fleet and just use it for strictly plowing in residential areas. Are there any major problems that are known with these trucks?

Some of them burn a little oil, usually a quart every 3000 miles.

90% of the time my trucks are never empty. if they are towing, the load will either be a 25' enclosed pull behind, or a 35 foot tri-axle flat bed with a skid loader and/or various blocks. Right now my guys say the diesels average about 16 miles per gallon, if the 8.1's only get about 10 maybe i will just add one to my fleet and just use it for strictly plowing in residential areas. Are there any major problems that are known with these trucks?

I'd bet your milage with either of those trailers will be much closer to the 7 to 8 MPG range, especially if it's around town driving. The one quart of oil usage for each 3K miles sounds about right, I think most 8.1 owners here have mentioned that.

It isnt the gas mileage i am totally worried about. I mean to keep clients happy i have to spend money to make money. The oil isnt nothing big i guess either. I was told by a buddy of mine that if you can get an 8.1 with 3.73 gears instead of the 4.10's you should be able to get 12-14 mpg. but something like that with only 3.73's would make me think the truck would be kind of gutless.

By no means will it be gutless, even with 3.73.

Mine is set up with a 3.73 rear. My best highway milage with just the truck has been 12.75 MPG. It might go up by 1 MPG if I lost the rack and all the tools, but I think 14 would be about the max MPG's for the 8.1 - assuming a steady under 60 MPH highway trip.

Cost wise, the 8.1 will run you about $3,800 less than the D-Max. Resale at the back end is not so good though.

resale isnt an issue for me, usually by the time i would be retiring the truck i wouldnt doubt there would be less than 150,000 on it, and by then it wouldnt be worth anything, i have one 02 duramax right now that has 195,000 on it and that was the first truck i bought. we'll see what happens, maybe just a cheap 6.0 would work. thanks for all the input

I plow snow also and do not think that the duramax is to loud that they should be complaining,Plus I think my dads 8.1 knocks louder then my diesel, at least when he starts it.

The 06 trucks are very quiet once they are warm. I think if you have a steel edge on your plow it will make more noise.
You keep them for long periods and you are loaded all the time, diesel is the way to go.
My brother has an 01 2500 HD with the 8.1 and it is a great motor. Run 10-30 in it and oil consumption will stop and oil pressure will be better. If you can stand the loss in milage get it to keep customers happy, if they are good customers with a 3 year or longer contract.
Test out a new 06 LBZ and see how much quieter they are, that may be your answer.

Cost wise, the 8.1 will run you about $3,800 less than the D-Max. Resale at the back end is not so good though.

You're wrong. The Duramax is a $6K option. The 8.1 is a $1K option.

Next year Duramax goes up by anywhere by $2K-5K based on new emissions for ULSD.

That price premium will buy a lot of fuel for the thirsty 8.1. Beside that diesel fuel is way higher then regular gasoline these days and diesel MPG is getting worse.

I was leaning towards Duramax but I'm nearly convinced that 8.1 is a better all around option for all but the most extreme towing situations and all but the most high mileage highway drivers.

However I still haven't heard if the 8.1 will be around next year.

I have an 2005 8.1 and love it. It get almost 5K out of a qt of oil. I have 4.10 gears since I am planning to go to larger tires. Right now I have stock tires and if I set the cruise control for 65 mph I can get just over 14 mpg (empty, no towing). I have a rolling tonneau cover (that may help).

Plenty of power, runs quiet and plenty of fast heat in the winter.

DEWFPO

With my 01 I get about 10-12 loaded and 11.5-15 unloaded.

I have the 3.73 gears and power is definitely not a problem with the Allison tranny.

I run a 8.5 foot Boss v plow and it will drop the milage to 7.5-9 depending on how heavy the snow is and how hard I run it.

Mine does use about a quart every three thousand, more if it's hot out and pulling a load. I run 10w40 in the summer and 10w30 all winter, with the lighter oils it really goes through it.

Also in the summer months the truck has a System One ladder rack, crossover box, two side mount boxes, and extension ladders on it all the time.. I know this stuff drags wind and makes it lose about 1-2 mpg... but the best I've ever seen was 15 without all of that stuff while running the cruise set at about 63mph.

You're wrong. The Duramax is a $6K option. The 8.1 is a $1K option.

Next year Duramax goes up by anywhere by $2K-5K based on new emissions for ULSD.

That price premium will buy a lot of fuel for the thirsty 8.1. Beside that diesel fuel is way higher then regular gasoline these days and diesel MPG is getting worse.

I was leaning towards Duramax but I'm nearly convinced that 8.1 is a better all around option for all but the most extreme towing situations and all but the most high mileage highway drivers.

However I still haven't heard if the 8.1 will be around next year.

I'm only wrong if you run that 8.1 without an Allison transmission! ;)

The 6K option price on the D-Max is for the entire engine & transmission package. While it does only cost about 1k to option up from the base 6.0 to the 8.1, once you toss in the Allison tranny you are adding in another $2,500 or so.

I've run NADA and BB numbers several times when considering a trade to a diesel - each time if I change out the 8.1 for a D-Max the truck value (on paper at least) increases by $4,500 +/- a few hundred.

When I change from gas to diesel it will be strictly for the economics of it. Around here, diesel averages about seven cents a gallon more then regular unleaded. At that rate, I can save about $1,600 to $1,700 per year in fuel costs. Since I keep my trucks for five to six years I'm looking as saving six to eight grand once I figure in the additionial maintainence costs of the diesel. The extra purchase cost of the diesel is strictly cash flow as you get all that money back on the back end when you trade or sell.

Everything that I've heard says that there will not be an 8.1 next year. GM keeps bumping up the HP and T numbers on the 6.0 so that it "looks" like a suitable replacement for the 8.1. IMHO, it will be a mistake to drop the 8.1 as it is a good lower cost yet powerful alternative to going diesel.

Interesting thread!!

For what it's worth, and I know very little about trucks......

I just bought a '06 8.1 4X4 extended cab with the 6-Ally and 4.10's.

After some thought and weighing the Duramax against the 8.1, this is what I decided.......

My current truck is in mint condition, but getting old. It is a '94 GMC Sierra regular cab 350 5-speed 4X4 stepside that I bought brand new. I have a 16 month old who goes with my wife most of the time, but I always drop him off to the baby sitter in the morning.....he sits in his baby seat on the front seat and I don't like that too much.

I wanted a diesel, simply because I wanted it.....
The only thing I tow is a double enclosed snowmobile trailer in winter.

My vehicles are all very well looked after and are all garage kept.
After thinking about all that, I came to the conclusion that I will certainly keep a new truck for ten years plus......the possibility of high diesel engine maintenance costs later on was a big "IF" in my book.

I love power so the alternative was the 8.1 V8......more gas, but lots of power and durability with lower maintenance costs especially when stuff decides to break.

Now for the best part.....

I tortured the dealer ( and that is hard to do which ever way you look at it)
into selling me a brand new '06 as above with a LT3 package and a load of other options including oil and transmission cooler, installed step bars, heavy duty trailer package etc. etc. for less than $30K !!
I told him that no one else would buy a gas guzzler like that and threw in a minute or so later that I pay cash, which means no hassle with looking for payments on a month by month basis etc. etc.

I think I did better than I could do with any diesel and I bought myself a fine truck in the process......brand spanking new :D :D :D

Now to get some nice 22" wheels on it for summer driving and a chip for playing ;)

i personally dont think that the diesel is loud either, and most of the people that are complaining are coming from a senior center villa, about 20 or so driveways in a townhouse complex. and the plows i have are steel bladed. i dont know im just relaying what they were talking about last year. who knows maybe ill just say screw it and keep plowing with the diesels.

who knows maybe ill just say screw it and keep plowing with the diesels.

Now thats the spirit! Thats what I would do.

FORD-FAN7.3 or any other fleet owners,

With owning 6+ dmaxs.....do you think your maintenance cost is higher with the diesels?

Most of the gas owners are afraid of the so called extra maintenance cost. I’m not sure that is true anymore.

IMO, stay with the D/A.

After owning a couple of tuned Duramax's I could not see myself downgrading(power wise) to an 8.1.

FORD-FAN7.3 or any other fleet owners,

With owning 6+ dmaxs.....do you think your maintenance cost is higher with the diesels?

Most of the gas owners are afraid of the so called extra maintenance cost. I’m not sure that is true anymore.

IMO, stay with the D/A.
I would also like to hear your thoughts on this.

well i own various duramax's. i have 2 01 reg. cabs, 1 02 crew cab long box dually, 2 04 extended cab short box's, and an 06 crew cab short box. now i keep an eye on the guys that drive my trucks and i make sure they are taken care of. the only truck i have had troubles with is my 02, which i heard is supposedly one of the better years for these trucks. my 02 has had injector issues since about 50k, once replaced we limped the tranny at about 100k, and since replacing the tranny the trucks been awesome. 1 truck has 190k on it, and 2 more have well over 150k now. simple maintenance goes a long ways with these trucks i found out. When the 6.0 first came out i owned 3 of them, and they are ok but pulling they are dogs and they sucked fuel. so by spending more and upping maintenace costs with the diesels i come close to breaking even because the diesels get way better mileage pulling. not to mention they are way nicer to drive when pulling a load. now if i was an average guy i prolly wouldnt own a diesel, but the ones i do have are all worked pretty hard, and these trucks take it. for me a diesel is a must.

so in a short answer i dont think its true. if anyone thinks a diesel isnt worth it cuz of maintenance, well think about it. the average stock duramax driven at highway speeds you could average about 16-17 maybe more per gallon depending how you drive it. now a gas truck like my wifes 03 tahoe doing the same trip gets about 15. so that adds up to about 40-50 or so miles more you can go on a diesel right? now that extra amount would take an extra 2-3 gallons of gas. and at 2.60 for gas here thats an extra 5.20-7.80 your spending, which is about how much more you pay to fill up a diesel. and as far as maintenance goes, filters are about all diesel require for like tune-ups. where as with gas trucks its plugs, wires, coil packs if needed, and yadda yadda. and for what little extra you pay to own a diesel, the truck will make up for it in other areas in my opinion. am I wrong guys? do you see where i am coming from?

I just traded in my 01 8.1 with allison 5 speed. Plenty of power, however, when worked, it will drink alot of gas! I had 104,000 miles on it with no problems. Just thirsty!

I will have to say my service truck weighs 10,900lbs with no trailer(i usually have one in tow), uses 2qts of oil every 3000, and is like driving a v6 while towing anything. if you have any LBZ's in your fleet the clients should be hard pressed to hear any objectional noise. Just my .02

did i mention8.5 mpg no trailer ?

since 1994 i have had 4 454's and 2 8.1's. the 454's i put diff supercharges on just to get more power, the mileage did not really change. about 9mpg and on the 8.1's i was not happy with there power either and had a whipple and a paxon. about the same 9.5mpg.

am I wrong guys? do you see where i am coming from?

In other words, for average driving the increased MPG from the diesel is almost all negated by higher per gallon fuel costs.

I haven't heard that there's much difference in average maintainance costs. (maybe a little higher for the diesel) It remains to be seen how the new LMM will be with all the new pollution controls.

The big factor is the price tag. For '07 the LMM w/Allison will approach or top $10k. If 8.1 survives, it'll likely be about $2K w/Allison. Depending how long you keep the truck you might see some of that come back when its time to sell it.

To me the decision between 8.1 and Duramax is dictated by usage. If you're a high mileage highway driver get the Duramax where the MPG savings might be more meaningful over the long run. If you need absolute maximum towing capability then get the Duramax. However if you want a fatter wallet, less risk due to new ULSD/LMM concerns, and still want high output then get the 8.1.

However which truck is just plain more fun to drive in everyday driving?? I'm thinking the 8.1 feels more spirited. Am I right?? My last Duramax test drive left me with the impression that they're great on the highway but slugs around town.

I'm still on the fence as to what engine to get next year. I know they're trucks but the "fun to drive" aspect is very important.

I have had one 8.1 and an LB7 and now an LLY. From a dead stop the 8.1 was a lot more fun. However, as it got higher in RPM, it felt like it ran out of steam (maybe torque management). The diesels really come on as they reve higher and build boost. The LB7 in stock form was sort of a pig, but with an Edge on number 2 and low boost fuel on 5, it was a whole bunch of fun.
the LLY in stock form is better than my LB7, but not the 8.1 for quickness. With the kitty off and EGR unplugged, it is much better. Around town, it feels like I am pulling an anchor around, and it does poorly on fuel mileage. On the highway, and pulling my gooseneck trailer, it is the best thing I have ever had. I pull about 5% of the time, and usually just a car, or skid loader. The 8.1 pulled the same trailer and did a nice job with it.

I only bought the diesels because the dealer told me I should, and there were no 8.1's available. I really like the LLY, but don't need it for what I do. Proabably will go back to an 8.1 on the next truck.

We can go on and on about the attributes of both drivetrains, but it comes down to what you want and if you have people complaining, then get them an 8.1 with 4.10 gears and push snow like a mad man. With that sixth gear, it will still drop the RPMs on the highway down pretty good. Around 2200 or so at 75 to 80 mph.
Good Luck

I agree, for playing and cruising a high percentage of you overall driving and towing rarely the 8.1 makes better sense.

What is the incidense of diesel turbos and fuel pumps/injectors blowing up? These are the expensive diesel parts as I understand and when they go.....Look out

My fear of the diesel is breakage when they get older than six years old.
Maybe I have misled myself....

personally i like both trucks although i have never owned an 8.1, what it comes down to is personal preference and overall need. if i didnt own a business that required towing day in and day out i would have a gasser no doubt. in my opinion you can't go wrong either way.

I purchased two trucks the same year...2001. I bought a 2500HD CC 8.1 and a Duramax exactly the same. Duramax ran me 4400 more at that time. When I came time to sell and upgrade my company trucks the Duramax had 134K miles and the 8.1 had 71K miles. Condition wise they looked the same. Where I live I couldn't give the 8.1 away and got 12 Grand for it. Tried running it on ebay with a starting bid of 10 grand three times with no bids. The Duramax fetched just under 24K on ebay. If you ever plan on selling the diesel will hold its value unless gas gets cheap again.

As for the versatility I actually liked the 8.1 more for around town. Tons of grunt or at least it felt like more. (Nothing quite like a big block gasser!)I used the 8.1 to plow my driveway too and it was awesome with the Allison. Towing with the 8.1 was also pretty darn good although it didn't have the grunt on the big loads to get it moving like the diesel.

Fuel mileage...I never saw better than 11 on the gasser the whole time where the diesel was getting around 22 hwy when I sold it. Although there is nothing wrong with the gasser I will say that even if my Duramax had been beat to a bloody pulp and the gasser was in pristine condition when it came to resale I bet the Diesel still would have gotten as much or more money. Just my 2 cents for what its worth!

That Is Also Another Strong Point

Had a 8.1 and loved it. Traded for a diesel simply because I wanted to. Very quiet and powerfull. Burned 1 qt of oil between changes which I did at 3K miles. Fuel mileage was not the best. Got 13 on the road with 2,000 in the bed and 500 in the cab. Towed a Nissan across country and mileage was same. If you add the cost a DMAX to the vehicle and the current cost of fuel, you'd have to really pile a lot of miles on the DMAX to come out ahead of the game dollar wise. In town traffic, like Las Vegas I got as high a 8 mpg, overall about 10. You might take it up the tail pipe when you go to sell the 8.1.

I have owned 2 8.1 trucks. First was a 02 gmc reg cab w/6 spd. Current truck is a 04 w,allison. Stick truck had 4.10 gears, allison truck has 3.73. Both trucks got identical milage on a common road trip i do quite often. The best I ever got was 13.5. The 02 used about a quart and a half between changes of 3000 miles, current truck,04 doesnt use any. Can't complain about either truck but the ally is the way to go imo.:thumb:

I love my 8.1 with the ally, tons of power for what I need. I was running Amsoil 5w-30 and was going 5000 miles before I would get to the add mark on the dipstick. I emailed Amsoil and asked if they recommended a diffrent oil to minimize the oil burn, they recommened the 10w-30. Didn't make sense to me but I tried it, and after 4000 miles it has just know moved a hair below the full mark. The 10w-30 has been in all summer with quite a few pulls over some mountains and weekend boating trips in 90-100 degree heat. So, well see how the 10w-30 holds up. Just a little FYI, I found.

I will have to say my service truck weighs 10,900lbs with no trailer(i usually have one in tow), uses 2qts of oil every 3000, and is like driving a v6 while towing anything. if you have any LBZ's in your fleet the clients should be hard pressed to hear any objectional noise. Just my .02 did i mention8.5 mpg no trailer ?

Did I understand you right that your '06 gets 8.5 mpg empty & uses 2 qts every3K miles?! Bring it back. My '06 gets 10.5 mpg (And I have 285's & a heavy foot) and uses NO oil between changes. My '01 and '02 use about 1 qt, but the new one has no issues at all. BTW, from everything I've heard, get your big block now as they're GONE after '06. :-(

I too agonized over getting a Dmax, but after doing the math, it would take me 6-8 years to break even on the upgrade. I couldn't justify it to myself, let along my wife!

Resale. It costs more and you get at least that much more when you sell it. The only extra cost is interest.

Resale. It costs more and you get at least that much more when you sell it. The only extra cost is interest.

You will usually recoup most of the cost when you resell, but that is always dependant upon many factors including condition, market value, current fuels costs etc.. I personally don't purchase a vehicle to recoup money reselling it.

I like getting more truck for the same money.

I like getting more truck for the same money.

You are absolutely paying much more for it.

:)

Resale. It costs more and you get at least that much more when you sell it. The only extra cost is interest.

Not true. Go to Edmunds.com and see for yourself.

I plugged in a 2002 Silverado 2500HD w/75K miles in clean condition.

Trade in value was $1100 higher for the diesel then the 8.1. That's less then half of what the diesel option price was in 2002.

Now with diesel fuel approaching +20% over gas, an approx. $10K price premium in '07, and lower MPG due to ULSD, I would not count on getting much of that $10k back at trade in time for the new models.

I live in Canada. Diesel is cheaper than gas. Read the Alberta auto trader. Tow with gas. Tow with diesel. If you still believe diesel is a waste of money than nothing I say can change your point of view.

The 06 trucks are very quiet once they are warm. I think if you have a steel edge on your plow it will make more noise.
You keep them for long periods and you are loaded all the time, diesel is the way to go.
My brother has an 01 2500 HD with the 8.1 and it is a great motor. Run 10-30 in it and oil consumption will stop and oil pressure will be better. If you can stand the loss in milage get it to keep customers happy, if they are good customers with a 3 year or longer contract.
Test out a new 06 LBZ and see how much quieter they are, that may be your answer.
:exactly: Steel edge will be the loud issue.

Not true. Go to Edmunds.com and see for yourself.

I plugged in a 2002 Silverado 2500HD w/75K miles in clean condition.

Trade in value was $1100 higher for the diesel then the 8.1. That's less then half of what the diesel option price was in 2002.

Now with diesel fuel approaching +20% over gas, an approx. $10K price premium in '07, and lower MPG due to ULSD, I would not count on getting much of that $10k back at trade in time for the new models.

It's all a numbers game - if you play it right you can win.

I just ran my truck through Edmonds, Kelly Blue Book and NADA. '02 ext cab 4x4, 8.1, Allison, LS, long bed. Plugged in 75K miles (sadly mine is over 100K). Then I only changed the engine to the D-Max. All prices were for dealer trade-in value. To say the least, the results vary:

Edmonds: 8.1 = $14,258
D-Max = 15,384
Difference = $1,126

KBB: 8.1 = $10,860
D-Max = 15,610
Difference = $4,750

NADA: 8.1 = $18,750
D-Max = 22,250
Difference = $3,500

Lesson learned: Shop around. These books are basically guidelines and cannot be accurate - case in point the $8,000 difference for the same truck priced through KBB vs NADA. However, some dealerships use these guides like a bible. Around here, most use KBB. I used my zip for these figures (Tennessee) but I'd bet that the numbers would change a lot in another state.

The gas vs diesel choice has got to come down to who you are, how you use your truck and to a certain extent, where you live. For me, the numbers make the diesel choice over gas as a no-brainer. I drive 20K per year with frequent towing or hauling. While it does fluctuate, diesel fuel usually stays within seven or eight cents of the price of regular unleaded. If I assume 10 MPG for my 8.1 (being a little generous) and 15 MPG for the D-Max, my annual fuel price for diesel would run $1,600 less than gas. Factor in the five to six years that I always keep my trucks and I'm looking at 8 to 10 grand in fuel savings. Even if I got pessimistic and figured in extra maintenance for the diesel, or higher diesel prices or lower diesel MPG's, I'm still saving money. Plus, I know the prices (at least in this part of the country)....trading in a diesel will get you every cent you spent on the diesel option to begin with and sometimes more.

I'm holding out for the '07's (or '08's or whatever they wind up calling them). Yes, I know that the emmisions crap is bound to cost but I'm hoping for a more reasonable figure. I've seen 'factual' guesses on these boards that range from 2K to 10K. I'm gonna wait and see. The same thing for milage estimates. Overall, new models tend to be better than the ones that they replace, car manufacturers would be shooting themselves in the foot otherwise. I'm going to let the new models come out, sit back and watch what happens and if I like what I see I'll get a D-max after the first buying surge dies down.

I think that's a great point. Book values can vary dramatically from one source to another. I wanted a D-Max (and still do) but I can't justify it driving 12,000 miles a year. If I drove more I'd have one. The 6.0 does fine for what I need it for. I hauled 23,000 lbs GCVW last weekend with the cruise set at 65 mph. Of course I live in flat country. For me the 6.0 works. If I lived in hilly country I'd want more power. The debate between gas/diesel can be argued to death and everyone thinks they've made the right choice. Personally I'd like to see a big block that could actually get 15-20 mpg on the highway. Don't know if we'll see it, but it would sure be nice. I've driven several 8.1's and they have some guts but sure are thristy. The 6.0 will do 14-15 highway, but only 9 or so pulling 20,000. I guess that's not any better than the big block. One thing to add to the resale debate. I may be totally wrong, but, if I was in the market for a 4-5 year old pick-up and the difference in price between a diesel and gas was $5-6000 personally I'd opt for the gasser because at that point those pick-ups are starting to look older already.

It's all a numbers game - if you play it right you can win.

I just ran my truck through Edmonds, Kelly Blue Book and NADA. '02 ext cab 4x4, 8.1, Allison, LS, long bed. Plugged in 75K miles (sadly mine is over 100K). Then I only changed the engine to the D-Max. All prices were for dealer trade-in value. To say the least, the results vary:

Edmonds: 8.1 = $14,258
D-Max = 15,384
Difference = $1,126

KBB: 8.1 = $10,860
D-Max = 15,610
Difference = $4,750

NADA: 8.1 = $18,750
D-Max = 22,250
Difference = $3,500

Lesson learned: Shop around. These books are basically guidelines and cannot be accurate - case in point the $8,000 difference for the same truck priced through KBB vs NADA. However, some dealerships use these guides like a bible. Around here, most use KBB. I used my zip for these figures (Tennessee) but I'd bet that the numbers would change a lot in another state.

The gas vs diesel choice has got to come down to who you are, how you use your truck and to a certain extent, where you live. For me, the numbers make the diesel choice over gas as a no-brainer. I drive 20K per year with frequent towing or hauling. While it does fluctuate, diesel fuel usually stays within seven or eight cents of the price of regular unleaded. If I assume 10 MPG for my 8.1 (being a little generous) and 15 MPG for the D-Max, my annual fuel price for diesel would run $1,600 less than gas. Factor in the five to six years that I always keep my trucks and I'm looking at 8 to 10 grand in fuel savings. Even if I got pessimistic and figured in extra maintenance for the diesel, or higher diesel prices or lower diesel MPG's, I'm still saving money. Plus, I know the prices (at least in this part of the country)....trading in a diesel will get you every cent you spent on the diesel option to begin with and sometimes more.

I'm holding out for the '07's (or '08's or whatever they wind up calling them). Yes, I know that the emmisions crap is bound to cost but I'm hoping for a more reasonable figure. I've seen 'factual' guesses on these boards that range from 2K to 10K. I'm gonna wait and see. The same thing for milage estimates. Overall, new models tend to be better than the ones that they replace, car manufacturers would be shooting themselves in the foot otherwise. I'm going to let the new models come out, sit back and watch what happens and if I like what I see I'll get a D-max after the first buying surge dies down.

If you average all three sources you get $3k which is still less then the price tag the diesel engine option but I agree that it's retained pretty good value. I'm sure the values are regional based on diesel fuel cost. (diesel fuel is very high here on the left coast)

However I agree that your choice should be dictated by your usage. High annual mileage, maximum towing needs and reasonable diesel pump prices make the diesel option make sense.

I'm still on the fence for '07. I don't tow a lot but big block low end torque (ie fun to drive) is still a factor and I haven't witnessed it in a diesel. (they still feellike slugs until you get them on the open road).

I'm not counting on trade in value because I keep trucks 10+ years and I also keep mileage low. I'd rather drive a car for everyday commuting.

I still haven't heard if 8.1 will be an '07 option and I still haven't heard the '07 price tag for an LMM Duramax. There are rumors of a supercharged 6.2 for the HD's but I have doubts since they're still just rumors.

These are all good points but if towing stuff at speed is important I'd go with the D-Max. I had a 7.4 now it wasn't quite an 8.1 but it did have dual strait pipes,K&N,Jacobs wires,a Tornado -:t ,ect. It would really run hard off the line{would burn rubber in 4 out or 5 gears :D } but towing 20,000 up hills didn't make me smile.With my D-Max I can hold speed up the same hills with the same trailer. Add my VA into it and I do smile :D. This new deal for 07' may Censored up everything though. Have to keep buying 01's and 02's I guess.