For anyone in the market for a lift pump. and or extra filtration for your truck. (Really does not matter what you drive) The F.A.S.S. is a very well made piece of craftsmanship. I talked with the owner (Sorry for not remembering your name) for a good 30 minutes, and He is very polite, we also talked about his family feud, I informed him that most people could care less about what goes on with him outside of the business. He told me that he felt his Father`s setup was very good as well.


I have been thinking about a lift pump, and was considering the one his Father sells, but after talking with him and seeing the unit first hand, I will place his in the running.


Someone on here stated a while back that the F.A.S.S. had very poor workmanship, and fit an finish, and made some other negative comments about the unit. I tell you that the unit I seen (Hoot and I talked about this unit, and he agrees with me) is as nicely built as anything in its class. And it will fit under the short bed Chevy/GMC 2500HD. You may need to be creative on where to place it, but it will fit. It is 14" high not 17 as I had read.

Quality is nice, but neither the FASS or the Preporator seem to flow enough for the big programs/stacked/nitrous trucks. Definately helps, but the fuel pressure still drops off. We're working on a solution now.

Quality is nice, but neither the FASS or the Preporator seem to flow enough for the big programs/stacked/nitrous trucks. Definately helps, but the fuel pressure still drops off. We're working on a solution now.


Explain to me why there is a problem with fuel pressure dropping off as long as the pressure does not go to a negative pressure. After all aren't these trucks on a vacuum system in the first place?


So until you can see the truck spiking and cutting out due to fuel starvation I don't see the problem. I have been reading that some guys are putting down 500+ rwhp on #2 diesel alone with the factory fuel system. So if we are seeing fuel problems how is this possible? The way I see it, is these lift pumps are just added insurance in the fuel delivery area. It does not matter if you are seeing 5psi or .5 psi as long as the truck is getting all the fuel it can use. Right? I mean as long as fuel is being sent back to the tank, there is no problem!


Until we start using twin turbo`s or at least some very large ones, and really big injectors I would think that 500-550 on #2 is about tops for most of these trucks. Sure we might see a freak of a truck that will put down 600-625, but there are aways freaks like that.

~Edited by: Bronco

None the less this toy is Very nice, and the show price is just over $500. That includes everything needed for a complete install. Wish I would have had money to play, I'd like to test it.


He did say something very interesting; He stated that nearly all who buy them do not buy them for the air separation, they are filter and lift pump only.


Anther thing about it. Instead of using the 144 micron water separator, you can run a 30-40 micron on that side and a 3 micron on the other to have very clean fuel going to the factory filter, which would never need changed thenhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifEdited by: hdmax

#Edited by: Bronco

I do not want to beat a dead horse. However, the issues between the Inventor of the Fuel Preporator and the maker of the fass is not a family feud but a legal matter. The issue of what I feel is patent infringement is a matter of legalities. The fass was admittedly designed by altering the blueprints to the original Fuel Preporator. If you would so desire to see the internal workings of the fass system, you may do so by contacting the US Patent Office and obtaining a copy of the Fuel Preporator Patent No. 5,746,184 which issued in 1998. This patent and drawings show in detail the internal passages of the Fuel Preporator. The fass mimics these drawings. This patent, however is not owned by the maker of the fass, it is owned by his father. The patent drawings depict the internal parts to the system, the disclosure portion of this patent explains how the system operates. This is public record. The fass has 17 parts identical to the Fuel Preporator. If you disassemble a fass and compare it to the drawings of the 1998 Fuel Preporator patent as I did, you may then understand why this is not a family feud.


The US Patent Office was created to protect one's intellectural property rights and give them the exclusive use of their invention for a period of time. Currently, patent terms are for 20 years. In exchange for this protection the inventor discloses the trade secrets of his invention to the US Patent Office. When the patent issues, the patent is made public. It is still protected by law. After termination of the patent, this knowledge would then become public domain to advance the science and overall wellbeing of the Country. The Fuel Preporator patents have not terminated.


I am truly sorry for having to air these issues in such a public forum. However, some times it is necessary to keep the record straight.


Thanks,


Charlie

Never thought off using two fuel filters side by side. That would equal some darn clean fuel.


Would you then be back to trusting the factory water separator or is the chance of water in your fuel a non-issue? I would trust the factory setup as I have never had an issue with water in 59,000 miles. I buy all my fuel at Truck Stops that have a good reputation for supplying good fuel such as Flying-J and Love`s.

Seeing how you stepped into this Charlie, Let me pick your brain a bit!


On your new setup for the pickup truck line, how well has the new pump been tested? I understand you had the other pump in circulation (Pun intendedhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif) for a long time so it it very well tested. But this new setup is just that, New!


And how about some information on the kit? The posted dimensions have to be incorrect. Your web site states that it is 2" X 7" X10" How can it be 2"? I would not even want a filter that is 2" or less in diameter.


Also, I e-mailed you or someone from your company to request information about this new kit. All I got was an e-mail with a copy of the web site page. I need more then that, as it looks to be wrong in the first place.


In the 30 minutes or so yesterday I had a bunch of questions answered.


And if you are trying to get me in the middle of your family feud, I am not falling into that trap. (That is what it is in my opinion period)


If you want a sell from here, you need to answer the questions I want answers to.


Your competitor (Your Son) took the time and answered every question I had to my satisfaction. I hope you can do the same. As I told him, I am not sure when or what I will buy.

got the fass......had it since feburary.........changed to the 3 micron..........a little nosy but does supply the fuel......even with the big programs stacked.......approaching 20k on the fass....installed in the rear fender well on the drivers side(nictane position)

got the fass......had it since feburary.........changed to the 3 micron..........a little nosy but does supply the fuel......even with the big programs stacked.......approaching 20k on the fass....installed in the rear fender well on the drivers side(nictane position)


Had mine since April.


10 micron is installed. I own a 3 micron but I want to back to back it on the dyno to make sure it doesn't restrict fuel flow.


Same install position.


It is louder than the Preporator that I heard. But not annoying.

sdaver or Trippin, do either of you have pictures? And sdaver, is your truck a short or long bed? I have the short bed, and as bronco mentioned it looks to be lacking in that area. Regardless, if I get it, I'll find a place for it. The short bed does produce difficulty, but it can be done.


Where did Charlie run off too?


Trippin; I did look at your FASS pictures, and the unit you have looks just like the one I seen. Do you have any complaints about it? I was very impressed with it, and I did not think the noise was bad at all.Edited by: hdmax

I think Charlie is at the bank filling his 'fanny' pack with cash resulting from his royalties on his patent..http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

short bed.................consider the source in regards to the quality.........very well madeEdited by: sdaver

Long bed. I'll add some pics of the installed unit to my web page tonight. My unit was fine in the quality department. I gave it the once over and installed it. I didn't spend hours studying it. Nothing caught my attention as poor.


I think both are good units. I would be prepared to alter the mounting bracket on either one. ( I changed mine) As I said, I have seen a Prep install and the bracket was changed to suit that persons needs and I agree with what he did. I made the choice to use FASS because Charlie@Prep takes every opportunity to lash out at FASS where as Brad@FASS just takes the high road and builds his product.(At least on this forum)


I was turned off on Prep by the constant negativity. Just my humble opinion.


On edit: My unit is set to 7 psi..... over a 20 second dyno pull with the TTS extreme it will drop to 5 psi. (Thats right folks 20 seconds)http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gifEdited by: Trippin

I was turned off on Prep by the constant negativity. Just my humble opinion.





Yeah, that and FASS sounds faster and more high tech than Preporator...


PS, I bet its hard to be so humble after posting 1000 ft of torque!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

I was turned off on Prep by the constant negativity. Just my humble opinion.





Yeah, that and FASS sounds faster and more high tech than Preporator...


PS, I bet its hard to be so humble after posting 1000 ft of torque!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif





http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Yeah, but there will always be somebody with a bigger numbers. I just have to be internally content with my "no tricks" testing procedure. After seeing me launch the truck at the track, I'm sure you have no doubt in the abuse I put the poor thing through on my quest for speed and power.

Explain to me why there is a problem with fuel pressure dropping off as long as the pressure does not go to a negative pressure. After all aren't these trucks on a vacuum system in the first place?


The way I see it, is these lift pumps are just added insurance in the fuel delivery area. It does not matter if you are seeing 5psi or .5 psi as long as the truck is getting all the fuel it can use. Right? I mean as long as fuel is being sent back to the tank, there is no problem!





This is kinda what I always though..... Any ideas guys???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Trippin, with abuse, are you referring to your 10 second power braking proceedure where the tree and starter completely disappears in a thick blanket of black smoke?

FASS had bigger filters and cost over $100 less. I was impressed with the kit. I will consider one for my Dodge when finance permits. I was one of the fellows talking to the FASS guy on Sat at Muncie. I liked the ability to use a large variety of filters of different brands also.Edited by: hoot

*Edited by: Bronco

Explain to me why there is a problem with fuel pressure dropping off as long as the pressure does not go to a negative pressure. After all aren't these trucks on a vacuum system in the first place?


The way I see it, is these lift pumps are just added insurance in the fuel delivery area. It does not matter if you are seeing 5psi or .5 psi as long as the truck is getting all the fuel it can use. Right? I mean as long as fuel is being sent back to the tank, there is no problem!





This is kinda what I always though..... Any ideas guys???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif





What has been documented with a Tech 2 is that the commanded fuel rail pressure of 23,000 psi is not being met or maintained with the big tunes. The first step in trying to maintain that pressure is to make sure the high pressure pump is being supplied all the fuel that it needs in order to do its job. Once we can maintain the supply side with a constant volume of fuel at some given pressure and then find that the high pressure pump still does not supply enough fuel to the engine to reach and maintain the commanded fuel rail pressure then we need to start looking at upgrading the high side pump. We could go to bigger injector nozzles and ignore the fact that the high side pressure is not there. Sure we flow more fuel at a lower pressure which makes more power but it's only a work around for the fact that our fuel system can't supply enough fuel to make the big power. It all comes down to pressure and orifice. Yeah, time is a factor as well but we'll cover that later.


Those are just my thoughts on the subject. Not intended to be gospel and quite frankly could just be nothing more than the ramblings of a lunatic who has inhaled enitrely to much in the way of diesel fumes. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

Edited by: hdmax

I made the choice to use FASS because Charlie@Prep takes every opportunity to lash out at FASS where as Brad@FASS just takes the high road and builds his product.(At least on this forum)


I was turned off on Prep by the constant negativity. Just my humble opinion.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Wacko.gif





That is the reason I added the part about the family feud. Brad does not talk about it unless someone provokes him in to it, While Charlie goes out of his way to make all the little jabs (and some big ones as well)


I do not think I'll buy the prep because of how Charlie jumped in on this thread with the comments he made, but when I had questions he is gone. He does not want to give the information I want, just what he wants me to have.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif

That is the reason I added the part about the family feud. Brad does not talk about it unless someone provokes him in to it, While Charlie goes out of his way to make all the little jabs (and some big ones as well)


I do not think I'll buy the prep because of how Charlie jumped in on this thread with the comments he made, but when I had questions he is gone. He does not want to give the information I want, just what he wants me to have.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif





Man, that's how I felt when Charlie replies, its almost like an infomercial about the lawsuit (like his attorney is coaching him), but he never answers the questions. Yet he'll refer you to "the 1994 SAE study on Kenworth where as 100 hp increases were found... " or " I urge you to read the society of engineering study by Michigan University regarding entrapped air as a case study..." Edited by: hasselbach

deleted my none other then mehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifEdited by: hdmax

Edited by: hdmax

If the duramax system is designed to work in negative pressure and we are feeding it positive pressure(regardless of the drop and regardless of it being .5psi or 50psi) then any fuel issues are after were ever we are taking the LP measurment from correct. I am assuming there isnt a significant drop in pressure between the test port and the HP pump.....So it must be the HP pump correct? If its inlet is getting more psi than necissary(I theorize positive pressure is all that is necissary)


JMO but I bet it wouldnt matter if you were running 2psi to the inlet of the HP pump or stuck a higher pressure FI style pump and feed the HP pump 50psi.....I doubt things would change. Thats my theory though. What do you guys think?


Maybe this should turn into another topic.....what kinda fule PSI do we need to supply to the HP pump??? Should be easy enough to test. Give the pump a couple psi and see what the fuel rail sees and then give it 45-50 or so and see what happens. I will let someone else test the 45-50 psi thoughhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

You won't be able to get it much over 15 PSI before the RPCV can't regulate anymore. All you need to do is maintain positive pressure on the LP side. The HP side is a completely different problem/solution.

Bosch design this fuel system and GM modified it, so if you go back and used what Bosch design it for it will work better. The truth is for what GM allows the motor to make in the Hp area the system works fine, but add a few hundred extra Hp and the rules need changing. If you want to see how it works there are some pretty lengthy threads on it he at the Place.

All you need to do is maintain positive pressure on the LP side. The HP side is a completely different problem/solution.


Those are my thoughts....


How would we go about putting it back to Bosh specs? By running a lift pump? What are your thoughts on were the pressure problem is? Do you think that any positive pressure is adequate and its a HP pump problem?Edited by: ratlover

All good questions.


I think so far all we can do is maintain positive pressure on the LP side.


On the HP side we know a problem exists but what can be done to cure it? The HP side is like any other pump. If it cannot supply demand then you gotta go bigger. All we gotta do is call Bosch and tell them to kick it up a notch. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif (Don't I wish! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif)

it would be nice if it was a supply problem though, finding a realitively cheap LP pump that pumps enough fuel to double as a peice of firefighting equipment is easy. A new HP pump sounds expensivehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif Edited by: ratlover