Need help. Have a new 04 Duramax. Two powerstrokes before.


Want your input. Installing pyro and good trans temp gauge first. Exhaust system next. Then the "EDGE".


3.5" exhaust on truck, going to 4" is not a big increase. Thinking about leaving the 3.5" and installing two inline 4" inlet Aero Turbines. Supposed to reduce the EGT's by app 110 degrees. Any thoughts?


Thanks xsheepherder

Welcome and enjoy "The Place" I can't answer your questions, but I'd like to know how you like you new DMAX compared to the Powerstrokes?


Dan

Welcome to the forum...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


First, do you have an LLY engine or an LB7?


The LLY has a CAT on it so you need to figure that out first. If you leave the CAT, you won't need two mufflers and might not even have space for two.


Second, if my seldom used math skills are still intact, moving from a 3.5 inch diameter exhaust to a 4.0 inch will yeild a 30% increase in the area available for carrying the exhaust flow.


Third, there's been some information posted about the factory muffler being quite restrictive, so just changing it out may give you a good temp drop. I changed my system to a 4 inch CAT back and got a pretty good EGT drop.


And last, I've only heard of one individual who's used the Aero Turbine and he put that on an LB7 in addition to a turbo back 4 inch system to eliminate drone.Edited by: Zeeb

Just my opinion, but I believe that the Aeroturbine, Preporator/Fass, and Tornado are all in the same league. Not saying they are bad or anything...

StraitDiesel


Funny you should ask. Yesterday I was evaluating the "Max". Both PS were programmed and large exhaust installed. Gauges on the second one, almost had a heart attack at the heat in the turbo. Small wonder I did not toast the turbo on the first PS. Let me tell you gauges are a must, hands down a must. "Max" is going to get the gauges soon, then exhaust, then "The Edge". Would like to have digital gauges, getting old, eye sight is going. Back to your question. Both PS had different programmers, I liked both very well, but they had different ranges of power. "Max" is pure factory for now, seems to be good except at 75, yesterday I mashed it to the floor, nothing happened, no down shift. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif Not happy, not at all. Is this normal? I thought it should have shifted out of OD to a lower gear. It's not fair to compare the programmed PS to the "Max"(factory). My new "Max" is a 1T CC two wheel drive, both PS were 3/4T CC 4X4.
"Max" is alot more comfortable and drive alot better than the 03 PS. Really happy with the ride and drive. Give me some time and $ and I will report later.....What do you think of the EDGE? I was considering the ATTITUDE, but afraid that if I go in for warranty the ATTITUDE might cause a red flag. Looking at a pryro and trans temp gauge on pillar. Just trying to protect turbo and trans??????may not excit the service manager as much??? $ wise t he ATTITUDE is the way to go....your thoughts?


xsheepherder

Zeeb


According to Aero Turbine, the muffler cause a sucking effect on turbo causing the exhaust to exit quicker reducing the EGT's. My thinking is, if this is correct, will the 3.5 do the same thing as the 4" saving me many $'s? Appreciate you answering my next question: Do I have a LLY or LB7???? Going to crawl under this afternoon. Can we take the CAT off legally? Live in Texas, no state inspection yet.(that I know of) If I do not install mufflers and have CAT, what kind of sound will I have? Already wearing hearing aids, don't want anymore hearing loss.


Thanks for the welcome and response.


xsheepherder

X,


Well the idea of producing a suction in the exhaust has been around for a long time. Whether or not the Aero Turbine does that is something I'm not qualified to say, but it does remind me of the old snake oil salesmen of days gone by...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


Even if it does, you've still got all that pipe behind it causing restriction and turbulence in the exhaust flow. Air behaves in much the same way as liquids do, so anything you can do to reduce the turbulence and restriction to the exhaust gas flow will help.


That's where you get into why true Mandrel bends are important. Assuming that the muffler will not produce any, or at least very little suction, defects in the system behind it will negate that effect. So lowering the restriction is the best course of action. Problem with that is noise. Some of the four inch systems produce, what to me is unacceptable, drone at certain RPM's as well as being loud.


Getting a low restriction muffler is bound to help. IMHO, going to the four inch pipe is a necessity if you opt to go with a programmer or module.


My truck has an LLY in it and we have diesel emission testing in the County where I live. So I elected to try and get enough of a temp drop to let the Juice (when it comes out) work, without having to change out the down pipe everytime it needs to be inspected.


As far as removing the CAT, even if there's no State law about it, the Feds won't like it. Not much chance of being caught that way, but you'd have to keep the stuff around in case the dealer won't trouble shoot any warranty problems because you modified the emissions equipment on the truck. Also, at least one member removed his CAT and the truck started setting codes for insufficient EGR flow, while another member has removed his with no problems. The jury still seems to out on why one truck does it and another one doesn't.


Recent edicts by the EPA showing 38 of the 50 States being out of compliance with current air quality standards means diesel emission testing will be coming to most areas within the next while. How long that is, I couldn't say, but it's coming.


I couldn't tell you about noise with just the CAT since I've not tried it, but I'm sure someone will or has and I've not seen it posted. With the system I put on mine, I'd be hard pressed to tell you it was any louder inside the cab.


Do some searches and you'll come up with lots of information, experiences, and opinions on what you need to do. Then you'll have to decide for yourself which option seems to be best for you.


Good luck...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

I have just insatlled a complete 4 inch system using the 4 inch Aero muffler and a 4 inch MagnaFlow muffler in combination. This includes a 4 inch down pipe. The ends of the cat tubes (LLY-Allison configuration) were cut off at the cat which gave us a full 4 inches in and out. The cat was then re-welded onto the 4 inch pipe. The shop that preformed this has been in businees for fifty years. Needless to say they are true professionals and really know what they are doing. They are very big on the Aero mufflers as a result of their own testing which showed both egt reductions and MPG improvemet. We used the Maqnaflow to further reduce noise. The Aero muffler is placed pre-MagnaFlow. I pull many distances of 600-900 miles non stop-75 gallon fuel capacity. Noise is a killer on long trips. This engine has 1450 miles and I am averaging 19+ MPG Hwy & city driving. Initially, I was very disappointed with the performance, first 1000 miles, but this motor is really starting to perform. This is my second Duramax 2500HD FWD-previous 2002. I might add my first Duramax did not get to full preformace for 7500 miles. I am awaiting my Pacific Performance ECU upgrade which should be shipped late next week.

So, I have a hoist, and I have a dyno, and I also have a group of enthusiats coming in a couple of weeks.


Dyno should have the ability to plot EGT, and boost numbers in real time along with HP etc by then. HMMM, Eric, whaddya think???

andyg68


The Aeromuffler website claims they're very quiet, and that two of them mounted inline work even better(?!) The whole thing is only 20" long, and a lot of that is the pipe on either end....the actual muffler is amazingly short. Since they're in Salt Lake City, which is local, I'll give them a visit. What you've done sounds pretty much like what I want for my LLY, except maybe get rid of the cat. Where's the shop that did your installation? The truck now has about 1100 miles.

JK are you having a dyno day? If so what day/time. My weekends are filling up quick with Muncie and Union Grove. Another trip to add to the list. Let me know.

There may be something to the Aeroturbine muffler. I read a very interesting article by one of the designers of the P-51 Mustang. They were dealing with the need to provide sufficient cooling to the engine without the radiator inlet causing too much performance reducing drag. Someone figured out that in combination with the ram air coming into the inlet, the radiator could add enough heat to expand the gases and accelerate the flow out the radiator exhaust outlet. The resulting thrust offset the drag of the big scoop hanging down in the slipstream. I suppose it's possible that the Aeroturbine muffler, because it uses bypass flow, could provide some extractor effect if the center portion of the muffler core adds heat to the gases flowing around it. I'm no engineer and happily defer to those with more knowledge of this subject.

TC

JK are you having a dyno day? If so what day/time. My weekends are filling up quick with Muncie and Union Grove. Another trip to add to the list. Let me know.





See the Get Togethers forum.Edited by: Kennedy

xsheepherder; Why have you decided to install a transmission gage as one of the first things? Do you have the 6 speed? The reason I ask, is that our trucks at least those with the Allison have a transmission gage. It may not be the best, but I think there are other much more important things to buy.

Just my opinion, but I believe that the Aeroturbine, Preporator/Fass, and Tornado are all in the same league. Not saying they are bad or anything...


Some times I really have to question your professionalism with some of the little remarks you make. Most people here are smart enough to read into your snide remarks. It gets old, and I am very sure it cuts into your sells. I for one do not like it, and for that reason, would find it hard to buy from you in the future.


You are a paying supporter here as is Preporator. If you do not like competition you are in the wrong line of work. And yes the two of you compete with each other in selling lift pumps. And then there is the exhaust competition.


Lets try and stay on the subject at hand, and not use every chance to jab at the competition.

Just my opinion, but I believe that the Aeroturbine, Preporator/Fass, and Tornado are all in the same league. Not saying they are bad or anything...


Some times I really have to question your professionalism with some of the little remarks you make. Most people here are smart enough to read into your snide remarks. It gets old, and I am very sure it cuts into your sells. I for one do not like it, and for that reason, would find it hard to buy from you in the future.


You are a paying supporter here as is Preporator. If you do not like competition you are in the wrong line of work. And yes the two of you compete with each other in selling lift pumps. And then there is the exhaust competition.


Lets try and stay on the subject at hand, and not use every chance to jab at the competition.








OK, that is YOUR opinion, and you are entitled to it just as I am entitled to mine. I don't think any of the products that I mentioned will give anty measureable gains in performance, but at the same time do not think they are bad either. Pure and simple...

kennedy


Set me straight.


Somewhere on the forum I read that the stock mufflers had alot of restriction, creating backpressure?? Is this true or not? If it is, if i'm reading you correctly, I do not need a muffler of any kind???? Talked to an individual and he said not to put a muffler on if I had a cat. It would not be noisy????? If this is true I will go with the 4"exhaust system with no muffler, cut the cat so it will have 4" in and out????? What say you?http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


xsheepherder

hdmax


Good question:


My experience from the PS days. The PS factory trans temp gauge would register mid-way all the time-hot outside temp pulling trailer, never got any hotter??? Friend and mechanic tried out a new gauge on his PS and discovered that the trans did get warmer, so I installed a new gauge. Same experience for me. Neither of us ever had problems with trans. Just a little insurance. BTW my temp on the patio is 105 degrees right now, imagine pulling a heavy load down the "ol blacktop" today. Better have good tires, no?

Forgive me if I missed it, but I did not see if it was an LLY or LB7. I'm going to assume LLY as a cat in TX isn't quite as commonplace on an LB7.


First, I'll say my experience twith the catalyst on the Dmax is very limited. Someone with one would be better equipped to answer, but here goes.


The catalyst will act as a muffler of sorts. It should drop the noise quite substantially.


A free flowing muffler will produce little or no back psi. We are basically using a muffler like heavy equipment would use. I would not exclude the muffler sheerly for a performance gain as it will not be there.





That said, I just did a 4 to 5 exhaust on an LLY. The truck was brought in with nothing on it and we did a turbo (downpipe) back like we do on the LB7. My opinion is mixed. The sound is very mild, and tame for sure. When you jump on it, it sounds much like the LB7. At cruise, it is VERY quiet. Much more so than the LB7. This I attribute to the higher turbine speed from the VGT. Idle is well, goofy. It isn't shrill like the 6.0 PSD. Sound more like an exhaust brake applied at idle. I think this is likely due to a different vane angle at idle on the Dmax. In town, it sings nice and sweet, and has a whistle that is absent from the LB7.





Hope that helps...

i talked to edge about areo and they said that the muffler did not do what they claim and most of the numbers that were run, with some of the dynoing being done in their shop, were obviously changed to make them better. they told me to stay away from them and just go 4 inch straight pipe.

Hairy Bear


Appreciate the info.


I ran from turbo back on my PS's with the four inch. Had mufflers and the sound was not bad at all. Wonder what kind of sound without any muff. on the Dura's?


xsheepherder