I just picked up my truck after having it in for the second time in three weeks for injector problems (hard starts, injector noise, and finally SES light). [62K miles] They replaced all 8 with the new model this time. I'm happy about this. But...


The first time in the service tech said that GM "requires" them to perform the injector flush to make sure that doesn't cure the problem. A couple days and ~$350 dollars later the same symptoms come up. Now, I would think that since GM required them to first do the flush (and it didn't work) that the same warranty that covered the replacement would cover the flush - not so, according to the service department. No refund for the flush.


I'd like to know what others think of this. I feel like I've been ripped-off.


Thanks in advance for your comments.

Sounds like you have been flushed....


Have them show you where GM requires it.....then politly ask for a reimbursment

This is the old gotta make the min $300.00 on every chump that comes into the service dept deal. Its happened to me numerous times thats why I only go to the stealer when I absolutely have to. Please Eric don't take offence I know you are only the messenger, but dammit this gets old.

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Unhappy.gif

BruceEdited by: ntnbolt1

I understand your frustration....


I would ask to see this requirement in writing...


I bet they cant produce it and I would politly ask for reimbursment since you were misinformed

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my injectors had to be replaced at 41k...no mention was made of "flushing" them first...my $tealer replaced all of them w/o any urging from me...said a gm bulletin instructed $tealers to replace them whenever any of the following symptoms were found...they showed me a list of 6 or so symptoms...


i agree that i wud have them show me the gm "flushing" directive in writing...otherwise, "i have this lawyer aquaintence..."


fyi, years ago i took a gm $tealer to small claims court over a warranty issue...cleaned his clock http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


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Sounds like you have been flushed....


Have them show you where GM requires it.....then politly ask for a reimbursment








Yeah, They flushed your wallet!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

Okay - now I really feel flushed. I'm putting together details for my trip to the dealer. I found a nice post on another thread of the "General Motors Special Policy #04039" whcih is a Q&amp;A for dealers that addresses the injector problems and GM's position on their replacement. No mention of performing a flush first.


Thanks to all. I'll be back with my results...

Good luck!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif


I hope they eat crow!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif








Kevinhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

This is going to be good!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif

Okay - now I really feel flushed. I'm putting together details for my trip to the dealer. I found a nice post on another thread of the "General Motors Special Policy #04039" whcih is a Q&amp;A for dealers that addresses the injector problems and GM's position on their replacement. No mention of performing a flush first.


Thanks to all. I'll be back with my results... -----YEEEEE HAAAA!----Go get'm cowboy!!---http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif--Phil

Leei, a location (u and dealer) would be helpful so others don't run into the same problem.


Good luck.

I think we will see more and more instances of denial or attempted denial due to:





gasoline smell


contaminated fuel


etc.





We may also see mandatory tank drops for inspection that IF the tank is found dirty will be customer's responsibility. This is just speculation based on how the 6.5 fuel issues were handled...

Ahh..... alway looking for a cheap/bill the customer, way out.
Its good to have people out there to educate us lesser knowing types. To keep the uh... hem...DEALER, honest.
Thanx, guys.
Sean

I just picked up my truck after having it in for the second time in three weeks for injector problems (hard starts, injector noise, and finally SES light). [62K miles] They replaced all 8 with the new model this time. I'm happy about this. But...


The first time in the service tech said that GM "requires" them to perform the injector flush to make sure that doesn't cure the problem. A couple days and ~$350 dollars later the same symptoms come up. Now, I would think that since GM required them to first do the flush (and it didn't work) that the same warranty that covered the replacement would cover the flush - not so, according to the service department. No refund for the flush.


I'd like to know what others think of this. I feel like I've been ripped-off.


Thanks in advance for your comments.








If you paid by a Major Credit Card call the company and get a dispute claim..file it........then they have to prove to you and the credit card company it's a valid charge.........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif


If not at least it will be removed while they fight it out.


Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifNY

<DIV>


Here's the "rest of the story" - Met with the service manager (at Team Chevrolet in Colorado Springs, CO) and explained what had happened (I had a good idea he already knew). Restated that I was looking for a refund for the flush treatment and again got the "GM wants us to try the flush first so as not to have so many injectors replaced" explanation and also the "most of the injector problems are due to bad fuel" explanation as well.


I then ask to get a copy of the service bulletin to include with my complaint to GM and was told that there was none - it was by mouth from the district GM rep. I said, okay, tell me who that is so that I can reference his name in my complaint.


At that point he said that we could handle the complaint here and said that he would refund the full amount of the flush service. I'll hold off final judgment until I see the check, but it sounds like I'm unflushed. There's a second Chevy dealer in town, so I think I'll patronize them in the future.


By the way, actual service was great and the diesel mechanic seemed to care about his work and even took time to explain what he had done and tell me how much better the new injectors were going to be.


Again, thanks to all of you for your feedback.


-Lee</DIV>

GM has no published procedures for flushing 6.6l diesel injectors LB7 or LLY's. ask him to show you a bulletin or PI or service information about this.......he won't be able to provide it...

lee, looks like your getting somewhere with this. thats good newshttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Information is the most powerful weapon...........


Especially when a few insiders here are thankfully willing to share.....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif





Glad to hear it looks like it will be working out.


Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gifNYEdited by: GMC-2002-Dmax

Perhaps word should be spread locally about this procedure, as I am sure you are not the only victim of this scam. Yes, it's a scam. they defrauded you of your money. I would contact the local consumer protection agency. When folks do this kind of crap to me, I go after them, BIG TIME. Get even time is fun!


I wonder how much of a kickback the service manager is getting from the supplier of the Flush treatment, to "Require" it. Bet ya that's what brought on this requirement.

get your money back and proceed directly to the nearest GM Zone office or rep, with your documented story. Insist on refunds for every poor joe that got "Flushed" by this dealership. Do not just do the "I got my money, that's all that matters". Only by publicly exposing frauds such as this can we force stealers to be straight with us.


In addition to your $350.00, you are entitled to compensatory damages for your time, due to the fact that you were defrauded of your monies. the dealership can be fined, depending on colorado law. Make these shmucks an example. As consumer friendly as Colorado is, you should have no problems at all.

Did you get your money???

Nothing yet - been out of town. I'll be talking to them first thign Monday morning, though. -Lee

Perhaps an Email Write in campaign to the President of the dealership is in order????


If this board flexed it's muscle a little, it could get interesting. We could threaten to send him Problem Child on a permanent basis....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif


Keep us informed, please.

We could threaten to send him Problem Child on a permanent basis....http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil%20Smile.gif


LMAO!!!!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Hey Lee,


What's the word?

Lee,


I am in Castle Rock, and I go to MedVed. My '02 D/A CCLB Dually had the same problem, but I also toasted the fuel pressure regulator. Dealer told me about the regualtor and injectors being the culprit behind my hard starts. Replaced the Regulator first and charged me the $100 deductible. Problem solved for about 3 days. Hard starts return and I call them back. Long story short is I did need the injectors replaced. When I asked about the $100 deductible they tell me I am SOL because the regulator is not covered. I guess I'll have to share some Brooklynese with the Service Manager.





One more thing...dropped off my truck on monday. They promised me it would be done today, but their only resident DMax mechanic got behind, and they did not even open the truck until this afternoon. I am stuck now in a 2 door Alero. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gifEdited by: Diesel Dually

Put a roller skate under your a** and hang on!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif


Used to shuttle cars for body shop doing work for Enterprise on occasion... Alero's were pretty scary, coming out of my D'Maxhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


Be Safe!!!

More good news. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


The DMax Tech told my service rep he pulled one of the sleeves (whatever tha means) and they hope to get my truck back to me late Thursday, but Friday is more likely.


Sliveradogs: you are correct...that Alero is terrible, I had to drive it to my second job (teaching fire science @ the local Community College) about 45 miles away...that vehicle makes me remember why I hate sedans...and despise little 2d 'sport coupes'. They are terrible! Kept it near 4k RPM's most of the way! And being so low to the ground! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

the sleave is the injector sleave, the head is hollow and the sleave keeps the coolant in the head the injector sits inside the sleave.

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Gotcha...you would think that if they were pulling injectors, they would have an equal number of sleeves in case they pulled any.

Better yet - just replae the sleeves. Most of the labor is done, and you know it won't come back for a leaker.

Better yet - just replae the sleeves. Most of the labor is done, and you know it won't come back for a leaker.





Thats their plan...just that they have exactly zero in the parts department. New sleeves will be here sometime tomorrow.

You don't need to replace the sleave s just the o rings at the top


who ever is working on it obviously doesn't know what their doing....

Well...that's exactly what I wanted to hear...





I am none too impressed that they have had my truck since Monday...

Now also understand that since the extended coverage came out the injectors are on NATIONAL BACKORDER!!!! Go figure...They are also VIN restricted. Meaning... when you order the injectors you have to submit a VIN number...no VIN no injectors, they did that for two reasons #1 to track the veh's having the problems #2 to prevent dealerships and parts houses from stock piling the injectors so when they are need by someone they can get them....i have 2 Dmaxs in the shop right now..both waiting on injectors 1 has been here 3 day's waiting the other has been here 2 days.....So Note if any of you have to put your veh in for injectors....plan on a MIN of 3 days...if you get it back before then consider yourself LUCKY!!!!!

Once every 5,000 miles I use a gallon of an injector cleaner I pick up at the Wally World, its cheap and it seems to give a power boost as well, its in a white bottle and its called Diesel Cleaner or something like that, (I don't have a bottle with me) but you can find it at wal-mart by the oils and headlight bulbs that section of the store. I found out about it from a friend who used it in his Mercedes and he loves it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

BTW, i forgot, I've got 60,000 miles and no injector problems ever!

If the injector cleaner is not GM Kosher, and you have a problem later, do not disclose it's use! Could cost you the Warranty claim.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

It may be Bennetts Power Service?

But if it's not GM Recomended.....

More good news!


Stealership hasn't turned a wrench on my truck as of last night. What about the sleeve you may ask? I was lied to...thats right...lied to. The service representative thought I had 'jack-a$$' written in special ink across my forehead. He did not think I was bright enough to:


A) Walk and chew bubble gum at the same time


B) Read


C) Look in the internet for information regarding this problem


So, I went into the stealership last night and raised Cain. I got the Service Manager and let him know that I am none too happy with driving around GM's excuse for a powered skateboard while my baby hasn't even had a wrench turned on it for several days. I also let him know that I did not plan on ever coming back to this particular dealership for anything...ever. (After I spent $76,000 on my Duramax and Wifey's Tahoe and recommended 2 more buddies who bought trucks there too).


So, The service manager is trying to make things right...He told me realistically to expect my truck back on Monday, and now I am in a rental TrailBlazer. We will see what happens on Monday.





Stay tuned!





Edited by: Diesel Dually

So, now that you no longer have to stick a roller skate under your butt while driving....

True...this AM they came by with a F150 4X4 Ex Cab. I don tlike it either, and not just because I am prejudiced against Fords...Guess I will have to suck it up for a while...but no matter what, the F150 is better than that poor excuse for a powered skateboard I had first.

Update. No payment for the unnecessary flush yet. But, there's a story -


My truck's been in twice since the injector replacement. Both times to replace the glow plug controller. I have a feeling that the first failure had something to do with the injector replacement - something banged or shorted or something. The second one was explained as a defective unit - one day after the first replacement. Both installed under warranty and they waived the $100 deductible. You bet they did!


While I was waiting for the second replacement (told them I'd wait for them to fix it this time) I received a call on my cell phone from the service manager. I had left him a message the day before asking about the refund on the flush treatment. While he was explaining about how it had to go through their finance department and reassuring me that he hadn't forgotten, I walked around the corner and into his office... I'm fairly sure he knows that I'm not a happy camper at this point. I told him that if I didn't have the refund buy Tuesday (this happened yesterday) that I would be filing a complaint with GM and the BBB.


After all that, I'm still waiting for my flush refund. But, on the bright side, my truck seems to be running fine now and the second controller hasn't failed.


I have decided that no matter how this works out, GM will hear this story too.


-Lee

Good For You Lee! You should take it to the Dealership's Owner/GM first, and then take it to GM, No matter what!


This squirrel has had plenty of time to process your refund, he's hoping you will go away. I would stick to him lie a tick, and stay all over him! He's a thief, plain and simple!

Got mine back yesterday...runs great. But I am so unhappy with that dealership, I do not think I will go back there!

Hey Lee,


It's Thursday, and while I have heard of plenty of tornado's out your way, have not heard of a GM dealership being taken outhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif.... or did the check get lost in the tornado???http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil Smile.gif


Seriously, hope you and yours were spared any of the awful destruction caused by the wicked weather.

The check finally came in yesterday - just about enough time since my last contact with the service manager. I doubt that it was sent out much before that.


Anyhow, rather than a check for the full amount of the flush charge, the rounded it off and shorted me $33.08 (possibly $133.08 since they had waived the $100 warrenty fee with the injector replacement and now said that they woulnd't do that sine I wan't paying for the flush).


This morning I've gathered all my service documentation and notes together and dug up a few GM phone numbers. I have to do some calling to see who this should be presented to. More later...


-Lee

I would start with the owner of the dealership. Hell, he stick his puss out there on the web site. I wouldn't cash the check, it's not the correct amount. Clearly he's trying to hide/disguise this transaction. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


I would think a call to the local television station that happens to have a consumer affairs division, or better yet, a governmental agency that is charged with consumer protection. the more PUBLIC attention you can bring to this situation, the better for you! try to find others that may have been "Flushed", join together, more people make more noise.


If I seem passionate about his issue, I am!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


He had his chance to make it right, and he's still trying to screw you. I would latch onto his ass like a rabid pit bull, and no matter how hard he tries to shake you, just bite harder!


John Wayne said it best in "The Shootist" .... " I won't be lied to, cheated, or have a hand laid upon me. I don't do these things to others and will not have them done to me" (I'm sure a bigger JW fan than I am will correct me on the quote if I'm not exact, but you get the idea, I'm sure.)


CHARGE!!!!

Looks like us Front Range Duramax owners are being given the high hard one...good luck Lee...I am going on the WarPath today!

Take No Prisoners!

I didnt.


They are now refunding my deductible, and the $100 they stole from me to spin on a new fuel filter. (I did not know how easy it really was)


So now, I feel a little happier.

Now what about that other Pilgrim, Lee, who has been at the mercy of those marauding savages out west? He needs to take a scalp, I believe!

Back to the top with this one....


Hey Lee, how you making out with the service manager from hell?

<DIV>


Sorry for not posting with status sooner.


Well, I talked with the service managers again and didn't get anywhere. I filed a complaint with GM, but I'm not too impressed with what they were telling me. The lady I talked to would file my complaint, but when ask how I would hear of the resolution she said that I would not - that any interaction with the dealer was between GM and the dealer. She also would not agree to verify (or not) the statement by the service manager that "GM" required a system flush prior to replacing the injectors and refused to give me the contact information for the district GM rep. It just keeps getting better and better.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


I recently received the "non recall" about the possibly faulty injectors that has an option to request reimbursement for injector service done prior to the "non recall". I'm sending that with copies of all invoices as well as an explanation of what has happened. It will be interesting to see if there is any reaction to the two replacements of the glow plug controller under warranty, shich I believe was broked during the injector replacement.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil%20Smile.gif


-Lee</DIV>

Once every 5,000 miles I use a gallon of an injector cleaner I pick up at the Wally World, its cheap and it seems to give a power boost as well, its in a white bottle and its called Diesel Cleaner or something like that, (I don't have a bottle with me) but you can find it at wal-mart by the oils and headlight bulbs that section of the store. I found out about it from a friend who used it in his Mercedes and he loves it.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


I just looked at my bottle I got from Walley World. It's called Power Cleaner. A quart bottle treats 100 gallons. There is a white bottle for anti-jelling and raises cetane 4 numbers and a silver bottle without anti-jelling that raises cetane 6 numbers per the labels. Being paranoid about destroying my new $40+ baby, I questioned my stealer real hard about using this. He garenteed me no problem, most of their D/A customers use that or some kind of fuel additive. I have noticed my MPG went up to the low 19's since I started using it.

<DIV>


Sorry for not posting with status sooner.


Well, I talked with the service managers again and didn't get anywhere. I filed a complaint with GM, but I'm not too impressed with what they were telling me. The lady I talked to would file my complaint, but when ask how I would hear of the resolution she said that I would not - that any interaction with the dealer was between GM and the dealer. She also would not agree to verify (or not) the statement by the service manager that "GM" required a system flush prior to replacing the injectors and refused to give me the contact information for the district GM rep. It just keeps getting better and better.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Disapprove.gif


I recently received the "non recall" about the possibly faulty injectors that has an option to request reimbursement for injector service done prior to the "non recall". I'm sending that with copies of all invoices as well as an explanation of what has happened. It will be interesting to see if there is any reaction to the two replacements of the glow plug controller under warranty, shich I believe was broked during the injector replacement.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Evil%20Smile.gif


-Lee</DIV> We have TV stations that help consumers with these type of problems all the time. Here it is the local ABC TV station and is called "6 on your side" If you have something like that where you live, it may help to get this thing aired out. You would be surprised how much GM will try to help once something like this gets out over the air waves.

Lee,


I would certainly hope that you never "think" about returning to that stealership for any service, ever again!!!

I am not sure about which channel it is in the Springs, but here in Denver it is 7 on your side...or something like that.


I would immediately call them! I finally got my money, but they know that I am a fireman, and I have 20 days a month to park my baby out front of their stealership with a huge sign proclaiming their incompetent service.


'Dont tread on me!'