What I mean to say is, why did the LB7 make so much more power with mods than the LLY? From what I hear the LBZ is gonna be the same way. Are there other things to consider when making mods than starting with the tunes? I just read about a turbo swap on a Ford that said it was a big difference, can we look at the same things? What needs to go with it, or would it be a bolt on swap? Did they ruin LLY with the VVT?
Are these engines just not as effecient as the old/new ones?:(

what?:confused:

dont take this the wrong way but do some reading and accually do some searching! their are plenty of 500+ llys out. their are llys running 12's.the reason why they are a step behind in makeing record breaking hp is they are still a new engine and have only been out for 2 years. lb7 has been out for 5 years.

For big power they all get the same big hair dryer.
So it's programming and injectors.

Look for farmboystoy truck for a good running lilly

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=94706

I don't know about the rest of you, but my LLY has had 0 problems, runs great, and hauls azz

What I mean to say is, why did the LB7 make so much more power with mods than the LLY? From what I hear the LBZ is gonna be the same way. Are there other things to consider when making mods than starting with the tunes? I just read about a turbo swap on a Ford that said it was a big difference, can we look at the same things? What needs to go with it, or would it be a bolt on swap? Did they ruin LLY with the VVT?
Are these engines just not as effecient as the old/new ones?:(I traded my 05 for my 90,000 mile 03 and I'm way happier. Wish I would've found this used truck before I bought that brand new turd.

Where is MCRAT.......

Where is MCRAT.......

poor guy is probly in another thread in a heated debate defending the honor of a PPE product......

Mine runs good.:)

LLY's might have been a performance dog a year back, but now there is enough knowledge in ECM tuning and bolt-on's that they are really kickin'.
500Hp+, 12sec 1/4's, it becoming a weekly announcement by someone in the competitions threads.

Cheers,
Ross

I traded my 05 for my 90,000 mile 03 and I'm way happier. Wish I would've found this used truck before I bought that brand new turd.
i wish we where closer, so i could hand you your *** with my lilly. :)

You guys are missin my point, I'm not saying that its junk. I like mine, its just a step behind...from the factory. I'm not asking about tunes, I know all that, I meant more about the basic engine designs and limitaions. As in Why did they go to the VVT. Seems LBZ was more of a jump in the right direction than LB7 to the LLY as far as internals go. I KNOW A LOT OF FAST LLYS ESXIST its not an argument. Mine is right quick as well.

They went to the VVT I beleive for emissions.

mine runs ok :)

I don't know about the rest of you, but my LLY has had 0 problems, runs great, and hauls azzditto-:exactly:

Mine runs okay I guess PPE on 160 and I got beat by an LB7 with the pred. and edge stacked on a stock tranny.

Forget it....You are missing the point, I did not want a pissing match, or a mine is better than yours, or come here and I'll hand your a** to you debate. I was just curious about the actual changes in the motors.:confused:

Forget it....You are missing the point, I did not want a pissing match, or a mine is better than yours, or come here and I'll hand your a** to you debate. I was just curious about the actual changes in the motors.:confused:

Then try doing a search on this site dude! The changes are well documented, and not that hard to figure out. As stated, many things were changed due to EPA requirements.

Your subject line content is why you have received the responses that you have, and not liked...

:rolleyes:

You guys are missin my point, I'm not saying that its junk. I like mine, its just a step behind...from the factory. I'm not asking about tunes, I know all that, I meant more about the basic engine designs and limitaions. As in Why did they go to the VVT. Seems LBZ was more of a jump in the right direction than LB7 to the LLY as far as internals go. I KNOW A LOT OF FAST LLYS ESXIST its not an argument. Mine is right quick as well.

Stock for stock (no tuner), an LLY will spank a LB7 in a sled pull or drag race.

Our heads flow better, our charger flows better, and our computer is faster with more parameters.

Today, it is easier to get 500rwhp out of a LLY than an LB7.

Thank you McRat, coming from you that reply is what I wanted, someone who knows, I stand corrected. What about the drops in fuel mileage? Are any internals changed?

As far as the replys "I didn't like go", they just did not answer my question. I have done searches, sometimes its easier to ask, than filter through the off topic search responses, but now I see why there are so many that go askew.

McRat, can you explain more about the LLY vs LB7? I am curious about this as well as why the LLZ came out so quickly.

I think it was more of a emissions thing without enough load testing. It's not that these are bad engines, they are just being pushed beyond their current design. One thing I've learned about diesels, with performance and ability, heat is a issue.

McRat, can you explain more about the LLY vs LB7? I am curious about this as well as why the LLZ came out so quickly.

The LLY has a better head design for more flow. It's charger is a Garrett AVNT37, which by anyone's standard is a big charger for a stock vehicle. It's computer can control vane position to increase or decrease boost and back pressure. There are more "adjustments" available when you write programs for them, and it's processor is faster with more memory.

It's all about "area under curve".

The LBZ though is a leap ahead of the LLY and LB7 with stronger engine parts, better fuel injection pump, and higher rail pressure.

It will be "the one to catch" sooner than you think.

Mcrat did you get my pm? sry back on topic.

Oh, to the original poster...

THE FASTEST "DIESEL" DURAMAX IS AN LLY!!!

Now time for the LB7's to play catch up.

:grd:

):h

From the original poster........HOLY Sh**

And thanks for begining to answer my questions, even though the rest of it went astray:eek:

It seems that everybodys Duramax is different,I have a 03 with the LB7 and a 04 with the LLY, both low mileage, NO comparison,my LLY will run off and hide from my LB7 truck

I still don't know the logic in going from the LB7 for 4 years, to the LLY for 2 years, then changing to the LBZ. Thats 3 engines in 6 years??????

I know there are emission restrictions, but these were known well in advance, and GM shoulda been ahead of the curve. :(

My two cents worth....We've got an LB7 and an LLY (both stock) and love both of them. They do everything we ask of them, and are a blast to drive on top of that. The biggest difference is mileage, the LB7 is getting around 21 mpg while the LLY is down around 16mpg. We wouldn't trade them for anything!

I still don't know the logic in going from the LB7 for 4 years, to the LLY for 2 years, then changing to the LBZ. Thats 3 engines in 6 years??????

I know there are emission restrictions, but these were known well in advance, and GM shoulda been ahead of the curve. :(

I think it probably has more to do with the extremely competitive nature of the diesel market. GM upped the ante in with the 01 LB7 and Dodge and Ford had to scramble to make their engines competitive. This bought GM those first 4 years, after that Dodge and Ford started equalling and even surpassing Dmax capabilities, hence the LLY, then the LBZ shortly thereafter. It's all about being "best in class", which the LLY technically wasn't after Dodge came out with their Cummins 600/610... the LBZ recaptured that crown... we'll see what happens next!!! :ro)

I think it probably has more to do with the extremely competitive nature of the diesel market. GM upped the ante in with the 01 LB7 and Dodge and Ford had to scramble to make their engines competitive. This bought GM those first 4 years, after that Dodge and Ford started equalling and even surpassing Dmax capabilities, hence the LLY, then the LBZ shortly thereafter. It's all about being "best in class", which the LLY technically wasn't after Dodge came out with their Cummins 600/610... the LBZ recaptured that crown... we'll see what happens next!!! :ro)

It seems like GM changes the "order code" for engines as they make changes/improvements etc. Interestingly Ford and Dodge don't seem to be near as "order code happy" at changing engine codes, but I'll bet they continue to make just as many improvements over the years and people think. "gee that engine has been laong for xxxx years w/o changes. NOT!! Look how many versions and updates have been made over the years to the Ford 7.3l diesel and the cummins.

the only reason the engines are changing at all is because of gov emission standards, and the horsepower war. the lly is about 80% cleaner then a lb7. the lag you are felling is because gm is scard of warrenty work. they program the factory emc very consurvitivly.

My two cents worth....We've got an LB7 and an LLY (both stock) and love both of them. They do everything we ask of them, and are a blast to drive on top of that. The biggest difference is mileage, the LB7 is getting around 21 mpg while the LLY is down around 16mpg. We wouldn't trade them for anything!


What causes the mpg drop in a lly?

Thats a good question! I would like to know that one as well.

What causes the mpg drop in a lly?

An emission friendly tune does not necessarily make it the most efficient tune. Seems crazy, cleaner tailpipe but use more fuel doing so :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Ross

An emission friendly tune does not necessarily make it the most efficient tune. Seems crazy, cleaner tailpipe but use more fuel doing so :rolleyes:

Cheers,
Ross


Ross is correct there are some tunes posted on here that put the LLY back in competition with the LB7 mileage wise.

Specifically, mileage is better with advanced timing, but Oxides of Nitrogen go up. The diesel's worst enemy as far as emissions go is NOx's, so hence the "Cool EGR, CAC, Retarded timing". These are mechanisms to reduce combustion peak temps and reduce the formation of NOx emissions which only happen at high temperatures.

Thank you McRat, techie answers, I love those!! Makes perfect sense though.........................