My Truck has around 110,000 km. Lately I noticed that my Dmax took a little oil. It never tooked an once but I figured that it was normal.

Last Thursday on my first tow of the season, I pulled two trailers; gross weigth was around 23,000# and total lenght was close to 70ft. After 300 mi (out of 600) I stopped the engine on the ferry and when I started it back, I had the message "Check engine oil level" on the display. The oil level sensor only works at startup and not when the engine is running.

Pulled over after getting out of the ferry, nothing appeared on the dipstick. Added 1-2-3 liters... still nothing on the dipstick. Finnaly, after 4 liters, it showed on the stick.

I didn't notice it before (because I was not towing probably) but the engine was spitting oil on the ground very fast. I managed to do the rest of the trip but added a lot of oil. Oil pressure was good all the way, this my indicator that it wasn't too bad. The good part is that I now have a very well rust protected frame...

Went to the dealer last friday. They looked around and found it was dripping from the vent in the front of the engine. They called their own private GM techline and the were told the PCV valve was busted. Apparently they have a new part # for it. Possibly because the old one was flawed.

They didn't understand exactly wich part was at fault and worked on the cover valve thingy on each engine head. By the time they realised the were not working on the righ part, it was 5pm and the mechanic went home for a 3 day weekend.

My return trip was scheduled for sunday but it appears it's going to be wednesday.

Since they never actually looked at the alleged damaged part; my question is: Does it make sense given the symptoms or are they going to have to mess with it all day thuesday?

My other questions is: Since we have a 5 years/160,000 km waranty on the engine shouldn't that repair be done under waranty? They told me it was not part of the engine... I'm having a hard time understanding that someting that spits my engine oil on the ground only when the engine is running is not part of the engine.

Thanks in advance for your help.

http://www.jflaplante.com/duramax/dscn0006m.jpgEdited by: Maxter

Not sure but I think all emission related items come under the 100 K warranty.

If the old one was a design defect it should be covered. As to it blowing oil out, if the PCV valve was stopped up, the blowby had to go somewhere. Perhaps that is why the vent is on the engine. I would not think it would carry the oil with it however. You did have a huge load and that may have increased the blowby however.


I like your rig. Ill bet that is one monster to handle.

ag4gt:

The dripping stops when the engine is not running and is considerably less when I'm missing a few liters in the oil pan.

As for the handling; it's actuatly not bad at all. I prefer to have a big trailer like that behind mine than three 4x8 with one axel staked on top of one another. In the later case, I don't feel them because they are so light (1500 lbs) but I SEE them travelling from one side to the other.

Out of the 600 mi run I do every 2 weeks from mid-may to mi-november, only 150 mi are on a two lanes highway. The rest is a one lane twisty road with alot of hills... I like passing the cummings and fords with a 70 feet rig... Some of them may actually be looking at their speedo to verify that they are actualy moving http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

ag4gt:

I like passing the cummings and fords with a 70 feet rig... Some of them may actually be looking at their speedo to verify that they are actualy moving http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif


Now that's funny!


I'm interested in the outcome as I have a little blowby from the tube at the front of the engine also. I had asked about the PVC valves a few months ago, but I guess know one really knew as I didn't get any replys. The PVC valves look like they would be a PITA to change out, but if that solves your problem then I think I will change mine too. Let us know how it turns out.

The smaller valves; one on each cylinder head, are fairly easy to change. The one on the passenger side takes about 5 minutes to remove. For the one on the driver side you have to remove the big blue tube (intercooler hose I think) but it's like 10 minutes instead of 5. I don't know if those can be called PCV valves.

The one in the front of the engine; wich I have yet to see; is supposed to be the culprit. I'll see tomorrow morning 8h00 sharp...

I'll keep you posted.

It sure would be nice if you could get some pictures. That way we could see just what is involved. Edited by: ag4gt

The truck was repaired this morning, it seems to have solved the problem. I will confirm that on my way back with a 600 mi tow tommorow.

According to the service manager, the repair was not covered under waranty. I don't have my waranty book with me but I will double check. I'm having a hard time with the fact that my engine oil was spilled all over the place by a tube connected direcly to the engine and that happened only when the engine was running and that they tell me that this is NOT part of the engine.

Here's the part that was changed.

http://www.jflaplante.com/duramax/dscn0002s.jpg

Here are the parts that we mistaken for the correct one:

Passenger side:

http://www.jflaplante.com/duramax/dscn0005s.jpg

Driver side:

http://www.jflaplante.com/duramax/dscn0006s.jpg

The repair for the correct part took 15 minutes (and can easily be done in your own driveway) but I was charged 1.3 hours because the mechanic didn't check the right parts last week and also because they had to take the new part off a new vehicule since it was back-ordered everywhere. The original time slip was 4.5 hours because they played around a little before calling their techline.

Hope this can help somebody else to expedite his repairs.Edited by: Maxter

towing 2 trailers like that Can't be legal.

Turfmower:

It is legal. Can't go over 23 metres total lenght including the towing vehicle however (76 feet) and the first trailer MUST be a fifthweel or a gooseneck in my case. Since my truck is under 3000kg I don't even have to stop at the scales and inspections unless they specificaly ask for me.

If you look at my photo album you'll see that I do it quite often.

It may not be the same in the states or other canadian provinces.Edited by: Maxter

Maxter, help me out here. First, what is the item that is standing up in the photo - the part that was replaced? Do you have a part name/number on the invoice. Do you know where on the engine it's located?


The two items you have circled on the valve covers are listed in my Helms manuals as PVC valves. Are these not PCV valves? Or are they PVC valves but just not the cause of the blow-by.


Thanks for your help and let us know it that stops the blow-by when towing.

If it is indeed a PCV Valve, it IS a part of the emissions system and should be covered under warranty. I think a phone call to GM Customer Service is in order!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

Yes,


PN's for the parts involved & what PN was replaced would be nice. Inquiring minds want to know!!!





Thanx!

The part # for the defective part is: "97302067 PCV Valve". The part the put on mine was taken on an LLY unit in the lot because it was back-ordered.

It don't have the part # for the two other "PCV" valves that were not defective

The service manager told me the repair was coded "E" for "Emission" and was not covered. He said it should have been coded "D" for "Diesel" to be coverred.

Does someone have any hard evidence about the waranty for the emission system? I can't seem to find my waranty book. Could the waranty be different in Canada? Or could it be different for the 2002s?

Thanks Maxter!

PDS

Ditto on the thanks Maxter.

One thng I forgot to mention is that when they removed the part from the brand new truck to put on mine; It removed cleenly. When they removed mine, about half a liter of oil fell on the garage floor.

Any info on the waranty issue? Waranty booklet page? Anything?

This is taken directly out of my owners manual. It was found on pages 13-14. This was for my 2003, so your 2002 could be on a different page and have different numbers since you have a Canadian truck.
1.
Federal Emission Control Warranty
Both the Emission Defect Warranty and the Emission
Performance Warranty described next begin on the date
the vehicle is first delivered or put into use and
continues as follows:
Light Duty Truck Equipped With Light Duty Gasoline
Engine
- 2 years or 24,000 miles, and 8 years or
80,000 miles on the catalytic converter and vehicle
(powertrain) control module, whichever comes first.
Light Duty Truck Equipped With Heavy Duty Gasoline
Engine
- 5 years or 50,000 miles, whichever comes first.
Light Duty Truck Equipped With Heavy Duty Diesel Engine
- 5 years or 100,000 miles, whichever comes first.

And on page 20, it lists the PCV valve as being covered by the emmisions warranty.
Edited by: Darin Billing

Thanks,

I just found my waranty book. It is specificaly mentionned that this part is covered. My dealer is going to have a call tomorrow morning... The service manager should have known that.

Thanks again evryone.

I had this issue at our dealership, the (PCV valve is not your standard type valve) it is a rubber diaphram, one on each valve cover. as in the picture above. GM does not refer to this as a PCV valve it is a pressure diaphram, and GM will not cover the item....2 years ago if that diaphram went bad and you wern't under 3year or 36K you would have had to buy the valve cover assem. to get the diaphram(comes with it) and no the valve cover is not a warranty item either.

i got somemore clarification on the emmission coverage.


Emission Performance Warranty


Some states and/or local jurisdictions have established periodic vehicle Inspection and Maintenance (I/M) programs to encourage proper maintenance of your vehicle. If an EPA-approved I/M program is required in your area you may also be eligible for Emission Performance Warranty coverage when all of the following three conditions are met:
<UL =BULLET>
<LI>The vehicle has been maintained and operated in accordance with the instructions for proper maintenance and use set forth in the owner's manual supplied with your vehicle.
<LI>The vehicle fails an EPA-approved I/M test during the emission warranty period.
<LI>The failure results, or will result, in the owner of the vehicle having to bear a penalty or other sanctions (including the denial of the right to use the vehicle) under local, state, or federal law. </LI>[/list]


If all these conditions are met, GM warrants that your dealer will replace, repair, or adjust to GM specifications, at no charge to you, any of the parts listed under the "Emission Warranty Parts List" later in this section which may be necessary to cause your vehicle to conform to the applicable emission standards. Non-GM parts labeled "Certified to EPA Standards" are covered by the Emission Performance Warranty.


Here in Houston Texas DIESEL trucks are exempt from Emissions testing, therefore you wouldn't meet two of the three requirments.


Sorry guys but as you all know there is a loop hole in everything

I saw that too when I read the manual. Rules may be different in Quebec. I'm almost sure that if I leave my truck idling in frot of the SAAQ building (DMV equivalent) and dripping oil all over their driveway that I will meet the other 2 requirements pretty fast...

However that is not the reason why the service manager told me I was not covered. He told me that the emmision waranty was 3 year or 60,000 km which is right for the cars but it's 6 years or 160,000 km for the diesel trucks.

Anyways; I'll know in a few hours.

Edited by: Maxter

GMworldclassmaster or Maxter. Where is the part located on the engine. The tall part that was bad on Maxter's truck? thanks.

For the money we pay on these vehicles, stuff like this should be covered... it's only right. They rape ya comin and goin. I would make a call to GM and atleast let them know you're feeling a little screwed out of the deal. Tell em' you're trading in your truck for a Ford and see what they say, for sh*ts and giggles.


Dan

Called the dealer this morning. I know one of the owners son who works in service. He told me that my claim has merit and that it was probably a ommision by the service manager.

He submitted it to his GM service representative.

They also are a certified inspection facility for the SAAQ (DMV equivalent) and they would have flunked my pollution test if I had submitted to it.

The text in the waranty book says "The vehicle fails an EPA-approved I/M test during the emission warranty period." It doesn't say that the test should be mandatory; only that it should fail it.

On a pollution standpoint, oil dripping on the pavement at the rate of half a liter per hour is probably worse than anything else.

I'm confident to get my money back.

GMworldclassmaster:

The rubber diaphrams were not deffective altought they are called PCV valve in the service manual. The real culprit, as I said in that post was the PVC valve as in the third picture.

http://service.gm.com/engif/000/000/692/692532.gif
http://service.gm.com/tif.gif (http://service.gm.com/servlets/RetrieveTif?pic=692532)
<MAP name=692532.map>
<TABLE>
<T>
<TR>
<TH align=left></TH></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle>(1)</TD>
<TD align=left>Valve Rocker Arm Cover (Upper)</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle>(2)</TD>
<TD align=left>Valve Rocker Arm Cover (Upper)</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle>(3)</TD>
<TD align=left>Fuel Injector Seal</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle>(4)</TD>
<TD align=left>PCV Spring</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle>(5)</TD>
<TD align=left>PCV Diaphragm</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle>(6)</TD>
<TD align=left>PCV Cover</TD></TR>
<TR>
<TD align=middle>(7)</TD>
<TD align=left>PCV Cover Bolt</TD></TR></T></TABLE></MAP>

http://service.gm.com/engif/000/000/798/798945.gif

The Valve they replaced plugs in at the bottom of the generator bracket.

That's a big difference in terms. Diaphram and Valve. I don't own the shop manual. I just told you guys what the service manager told me.

When they called their tech line to inquire about my problem they were told that the PCV Valve was defective. I can see now that they worked on the PCV Diaphrams instead and wanted to charge me for that time. I said they made a mistake they told me that they are all called PCV Valves in the shop manual as an excuse for their mistake but they finaly accepted to only charge part of the time.

I may end up paying nothing wich would be even better.

Here's a better picture of the PCV Valve still drenched in oil. It was in the front/bottom of the engine accessible from under without removing the skid plates. The diagram provided by GMworldclassmaster is probably more accurate but I can't see were the part fits in.

http://www.jflaplante.com/duramax/Img2004-05-28-115534s.jpg

Now that you have made it home, how is the truck after the repairs?

Old Geezer:

Sorry, I forgot to follow-up on that. Not an drop of oil seems to be missing from the pan. The vent tube seems to be dry. I'm a happy camper.

Now I just need to get my money back...

Old Geezer:

Sorry, I forgot to follow-up on that. Not an drop of oil seems to be missing from the pan. The vent tube seems to be dry. I'm a happy camper.

Now I just need to get my money back...


The valve fixing the problem is great news. If you get your money back it will be even better. Thanks to you and GMworldclassmaster.

Got a check in the mail today for the full amount paid for the repair. Yesssssss http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs Up.gif

Congrats Maxter!!! Shows to go you what a little info (from here) and perseverence will get you!!! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Tom http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Pig.gif

towing 2 trailers like that Can't be legal.



Here in Nebraska we can haul as much as the truck can haul, But Semis are restricted to One trailer.