I have been lurking on this site for quite some time now and have gotten tons of great info from you guys. I currently have a completely stock 2003 GMC Duramax / Allison. I have been back and forth on getting the Juice with attitude and have a few questions. 1st, how difficult is it to remove to take in for service? My dealership sells Hypertech programmers so is probably somewhat mod friendly, but I don't want to take any chances. 2nd, does anybody know of a shop in the Denver area that could do the install for me? I'm a little paranoid since reading about the guy that had the tap break off and ended up spending $5500 to fix and bought a new truck. This truck is mostly just a daily driver, the most I ever tow is a 20 foot boat over several mountain passes. Thanks in advance for any help! This site is AWESOME!!

First welcome to the "PLACE".http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


To answer your questions.........


The Juice is a simple two bale connector install/removal taking less than 5 minutes.


If you are running the Attitude then you have a few extra connections but not too difficult at all.


If you are worried about drilling the manifold on the truck then simply remove the manifold and drill and tap it off the truck.


If you plan on keeping the truck and tranny almost stock then the HOT Juice is something you do not need. Stick with the 90HP and it will give you the 120HP on Level 5.


As far as installations in Denver.........


Someone will chime in I am sure,





Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gifNY

Juice/Attitude box is simple to add. All plug and play.


However, I do not recommend adding the EGT probe option with the Hot/Juice by yourself, unless you know what your doing. For the record I ran the 125 Hot Juice for a year with no problem and no EGT.


Do a Search on the subject.

The manifold drill and tap is a very simple job. Yes taps break fairly easy, but there is no way on Gods green earth that if one does break it would cost $5500, or a new truck. The very most it should cost would be a new tap $3 and the passenger side manifold maybe $250. (But probably much less)


If you do not have the tools, and or do not feel comfortable doing that type of job, you can hire it done for less then $50 to no more $85 by most garages. Most likely a one hour charge at the hourly rate. Around here, smaller garages charge about $35-$45 an hour. Just don`t have the dealer do it unless you know them and they cut you a deal, because most of them would prbably charge more then $100 and it just ain`t worth it.

my buddie has done several....4 so far for a $100 and the includes running monitor wire and installing the ATS overhead mount

my buddie has done several....4 so far for a $100 and the includes running monitor wire and installing the ATS overhead mount


I certaintly would have paid $100 for the above install after doing it myself.


Well worth the money.

My dealership did it for my six-gun. It took them about 1:45 from the time I got there until the time I drove it away. Lifting the truck, taking off the wheel/tire, taking off the inner fender well, taking OFF the manifold, drilling/installing the probe, cleaning the manifold, reinstalling everything and THEN running the probe connection up along the firewall through the grommet in the cab to the six-gun, they charged me $140.

Go with the juicehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


I ussually run in the 90HP setting and have never seen bad EGT's driving around unloaded. A hot juice is way more than you need for a stock trany. JMO


Taping the manifold is an easy job and like was said 5grand!?!? Installing a juice and yanking one is easy as pie. For trips to the dealer I stop next door at the goodfathers parking lot and yank my box and do the reverse when I pick it up.

Taping the manifold is an easy job and like was said 5grand!?!?





That $5500.00 engine story is true...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


A most unfortunate incident where a member attempted to drill and tap the driver's side manifold for a second EGT probe, broke the tap, punched it into the manifold while attempting to mark it for drilling and possible easy out removal of the broken tap.


Unbeknown to him, the tap ended up in the exhaust passage of the engine's head, with the exhaust valve open. He disassembled the exhaust pipe from the manifold to the turbo and could not locate the tap. Thinking there was no way it could be in the engine, he started the engine in an attempt to blow the broken tap out...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif


On tear down, the engine had significant damage to that cylinder, piston, rod, and head. IIRC, the bill for the repair was $5500.00...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gifEdited by: Zeeb

Ouch!

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

Unbeknown to him, the tap ended up in the exhaust passage of the engine's head, with the exhaust valve open. He disassembled the exhaust pipe from the manifold to the turbo and could not locate the tap. Thinking there was no way it could be in the engine, he started the engine in an attempt to blow the broken tap out...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Dead.gif


That is a clear sign of a guy that should never do that type of job.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

I definatly wouldnt have tried to blow a tap past my turbohttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


I was supprised, the material the manifold is made of is pretty soft and taped easy and didnt take much effort to turn the tap. Just follow good taping practices and dont try to run the tap down the entire way without ever backing it off a 1/4 turn and you will be finehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

I tapped my own and had not problems. Took about 15 minutes. I used a new tap and drill bit. I put grease on the tap to keep the fillings.


I love my Edge with Attitude and wouldn't go back.

Go back where? Did you have a different programmer/box before the Edge?


I tapped my own and had not problems. Took about 15 minutes. I used a new tap and drill bit. I put grease on the tap to keep the fillings.


I love my Edge with Attitude and wouldn't go back.

I have broke 50 or more taps in my life, and not once did it break on the other side. They always break on the side of the torque. So how could it get in the engine?


If for some reason you caused it to enter the manifold, that is when you call a time out and remove it to get the tap. I just can`t see how something like this could be true.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

why worry about removing it???????? if the dealer sells hypertech why would they dare say anything about your edge.......my dealer sells hyperjunk too and never mentioned my edge and they all know it on there................everybody is so freakin worried all the time about removing something from there truck when the dealer sells and installs performance mods on site !

I have broke 50 or more taps in my life, and not once did it break on the other side. They always break on the side of the torque. So how could it get in the engine?


If for some reason you caused it to enter the manifold, that is when you call a time out and remove it to get the tap. I just can`t see how something like this could be true.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif





It's true. You don't remember the thread?


http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4430&KW=head


Hitting it with an air hammer / chisel will definitely get it inside the manifold and allow it to bounce around. That's how it wound up in the cylinder.


Just ask CNTRLCAL how true it is.

Hi all


I too have been lurking in the shadows at this forum for some time. Finally decided to buy the juice box and attitude. Been also reading about the poor guy and his tap. I've taped for many years and have broken many. As a mechanic, I feel the chances of that happening to that poor guy are one and a million. No one else could have all those misfortunes at one time. I agree its possable, but to have that exhaust valve open and that little part fly in that direction, and make through that little opening are simply amazing!! I think the air hammer was a mistake, but we learn from out mistakes. I finally decided to attempt it myself. I seen the picture of the guy that did it from underneath. It was like a walk in the park, I didn't take anything off not even the tire. I crawled underneath, took a center pinch that I welded it to a 15 inch long rod, then center punched the manifold. I had some extra long drill bits( about 15 inches), started with about a 3/16 first. The truck was running and all chips fell down. Then I went to the final size drill. I took it real slow towards the end of the drilling as not to to let the drill catch and break. It did catch a few times and spun in the chuck. I figured that was better than breaking the drill. Finally got through. Then I took the tap with a long 3/8 extension (12 inch or longer) with the correct size socket to fit the tap. Both the tap and the drill were long enough so you are working below your aframe. Since the manifold is cast iron, I didn't use any lube on the tap. I left the motor running the whole time. Worked great with no problems. If you know how to tap I don't think you will have any problems. The scarryest part was when breaking through with the drill. Just use light pressure when your about to break through at the end. I was leary at first but, now I have a success story to tell. After doing it once now, I think I could do the whole thing now in less than 1 hour. The longest part was running the attitude in the cab and mounting it.


What a difference it makes. I really like it. It has tremendous pull in all gears. Even In #3 setting. I'm checking the mileage now, so I'm trying to drive like a human for this tank. Its hard keeping the right foot under control. It feels like a old muscle car from the 60's. It will lay you back in the seat and you have 1/2 throttle left. What a feeling, just like my teen years. This old man still loves the feeling of torque.


Good Luck


Terry W.

I have broke 50 or more taps in my life, and not once did it break on the other side. They always break on the side of the torque. So how could it get in the engine?


If for some reason you caused it to enter the manifold, that is when you call a time out and remove it to get the tap. I just can`t see how something like this could be true.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif





It's true. You don't remember the thread?


http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=4430&KW=head


Hitting it with an air hammer / chisel will definitely get it inside the manifold and allow it to bounce around. That's how it wound up in the cylinder.


Just ask CNTRLCAL how true it is.





Thanks for the reading material. I some how over looked that thread from day one.


Sorry I was so tuff on the guyhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

Thanks for all the replies! I've decided to go for the Juice http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big%20Smile.gif. Since I've never used a tap before I'm going to call around and find someone that can do that part of it for me. I did ask the dealer about the programmer that they sold and if it would void the warranty, they told me that the "GM regional rep said the he would void the warranty on any truck that he found with a non-stock program installed". He also told me that the trucks with the Regency package came with the Hypertech programmer and had full warranty coverage???


Anyway, I still have a couple of questions: It seems like most of you think that Tranny upgrades aren't needed unless you go to the hot juice, is this the case? Where does the Attitude get the Turbo Boost reading? Do you have to run a sensor or something to the Turbo?

Scottie,


If you can't find a shop to do the install for you, PM me (I can do it for you on a weekend, for free, if your willing to drive 40min. to Windsor). I've done a couple, and amazingly they all still workhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif. Just an option if you find you need it.


Josh

Anyway, I still have a couple of questions: It seems like most of you think that Tranny upgrades aren't needed unless you go to the hot juice, is this the case? Where does the Attitude get the Turbo Boost reading? Do you have to run a sensor or something to the Turbo?





I think the concensus is that as long as you stay at the 90hp setting, level four in the standard Juice I think, while empty and level two which IIRC is 60hp for towing, you should be okay. But that doesn't mean you can ignore it completely.


The standard Juice/Attitude has five levels topping out at 125hp while the new Hot Juice/Attitude goes to 150hp.


The Attitude picks up the boost from the Juice which is tied into what is known as the CAN BUS on the engine/trans wiring. So no additional wiring is required for that.

Scottie,


If you can't find a shop to do the install for you, PM me (I can do it for you on a weekend, for free, if your willing to drive 40min. to Windsor). I've done a couple, and amazingly they all still workhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif. Just an option if you find you need it.


Josh





Thanks for the offer, I may take you up on that. I think I'm going to wait around a little while until Edge gets the no start problem fixed, I've been seeing alot of problems with this lately. Hopefully they'll get it taken care of real soon, I can't wait to get it in!

Scottie,


No problem, just let me know if and when you decide to do it.


Josh

My truck is completely stock and, like Scottie, I have been considering the Juice. My concern is how do you manage the "out of sight, out of mind" goal when you have an Attitude in the cab with its wiring attached to the thermocouple and to the Juice? I have been really reluctant to go the Juice/Attitude route because I don't want to take any chances with the warranty.


Can the Attitude be easily removed so that its presence is undetected when taking the truck in for service?

what about the drilling and tapping part, the dealer could notice this and ask questions right?

Removing the Attitude from the overhead is not too tough, but requires a little time. Putting it back in is about the same. I've talked to Edge about putting a connector in the cable about four inches away from the Attitude for the express purpose of easy removal.


Edge's concern about that is possible interference from other electronic devices since the cable is shielded and the connector would not be. They've already got a known problem with Nextel phones and the Attitude they are trying to work out, so they may be willing to address that additional connector afterward. Or, you could put in the connector yourself and see if there is a problem. That's the approach I intend to use when the time comes.


As far as the EGT probe is concerned, there's nothing wrong with monitoring that, so I plan on getting a guage for it. Some have suggested if questions are raised about the probe, that you tell them you're in the process of installing one but haven't finished it. Others have suggested putting a plug in the manifold.


I think the easiest way would be to have a guage you could put in when the Attitude is out, but I've not really pursued that yet. You'd need an extra cable for that guage run into the overhead since EGT probes/guages require a special wire, and the one that comes from Edge only runs to the Juice box when installed with the Attitude.


Just a couple of my ideas about how to handle it...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif

I have Pyro and Boost Gauges installed in a Pillar Pod, and didn't even use the Juice/Attitude probe...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif