I am in the process of building a new cooler. Going over final details with company. It will cool much better than stock, it will not be stack plate(throw away) cooler. it will bolt in original holes and bracket, and lines will drop right in. My stipulation is that it must be able to be installed by any of us in the driveway on a Sat. morning with minimum beer drinking within 30 minutes and must kick butt cooling fluid. My company says they can do this. We may need a test truck (midwest)


mike

http://dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif Let us know how it turns out!

Pray to MikeL the tranny cooler builder .... Hope he has success in his project ...


Please grant these wish to us Allison tweaked owners ...


Mike I want first tibs on the East Coast ... No freebies I'll pay for coolness and R&R ...I understand time is money and money is time ... I'm thankful some one is tackling this project ... If anyone has seen the TINY cooler we have the need is there ...


You know where to find me ...


84 Humid very light flogging two ticks under 200 IC temp today ... Sump was 20 degrees cooler although ...





M ac Edited by: Mackin

Spent a good bit of time at Mike's shop today, and really enjoyed it. Great guy with some excellent ideas. Living in central Mississippi might provide a good test bed for the cooler. By August we'll make the midwest look like Alaska.

Hmmm, I always thought the stacked plate were the best, at least from the normal crop of off the shelf coolers. What design will you use, or is that secret squirrel hush hush stuff?

As for a test truck, how about one that has to contend with towing in <st1:City><st1:place>Phoenix</st1:place></st1:City> 100*+ heat? This summer it will likely hit 110-115 or more…

Can't wait for this one!!

Looking forward to your replacement cooler for the trans. The temps are just too high in stop-n-go driving. Increase the power on your truck and it is even worse. Keep us informed.

Mike I want first tibs on the East Coast ... You know where to find me ...





....sorry bout your luck.....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif

I chose not to go with stack plate for a number of reasons. Stacked plate coolers have expanding tubes which means they are restrictive when cold; so the fluid must thin out and tubes expand before you begin to cool. Stacked plate coolers will preheat the trans to 180-200 deg rather quickly and then begin to do their job and stabalize at above temp. Stacked plate coolers do not flush very well which means if you burn some clutches in the trans a lot of that debris will stay in the cooler and make it even more restrictive. Fords policy on a rebuilt trans is stacked plate cooler must be replaced with new one upon trans rebuilds. I have flow tested coolers in my shop and have done a lot of research, called a lot of people that know about cooling (cooler manufacturers) and we all decided that tube and finn with turbulator cools best. (not the cheap press on finn type). There are a lot of factors we are discussing, one of them is area where the truck will be working. This cooler must be compatible in any climate. I have talked to Transgo and other knowlegable people and asked them " What would you like to see in a cooler?" They have all given me their opinions and I listened.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif I will keep you guys up to date. Thanks for litening.


mike

I'm in the midwest and would defiantly be in the market. I plow snow in the winter and need something better. In the summer if I am playing and driving in traffif it will hit 190 or so......once I hit that high I throw it in T/H to cool her down. I have a deep pan too BTW. Leme know if you need a test mule.


Stock trany, juced with an attitude.

Have you tried an electric cooling fan on the original cooler?

Me? Nope.


I bet it would help with plowing since airflow does get blocked pretty good. I thought about it but am wanting to go with a solution that dosnt involve more electric drain. plow plus, radio, defroster, heater, stereo, lights, warning lights, aux back up lights......quite taxinghttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif


Actually plowing dosnt really do it as bad as playing in the heat that gets her up there.

I would rather not go with fan cooler because it might fool the fan clutch into thinking engine temp is cooler than it is.


mike

Is this going to be aluminum or what outa curiosity?

Can't wait here in the deep South additional cooling is always appreciated.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif Thanks for your efforts on this project.





Harvey

I would be interested - do a lot of towing high and hot. Colorado, New Mexico, Arizona, Texas. No freebies here, either.

Mike, That's one of best ideas that I've read in a while. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif .... While you're "fixing" the thing, could you through in a slide over or clip-on SS mesh screen? Those little bugs and rocks play hell on that Aluminum @ highway speeds. I had rather pull the screen off and brush it than have the cooler packed with summertime bugs.


just my .02 worth of sugestion http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Burner--------------&gt; http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Mike I want first tibs on the East Coast ... You know where to find me ...





....sorry bout your luck.....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif








Dam'it ....


Mac http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif

Mike


Live in Okla, temps get in the 100's and pull a 4000 lb boat, will help in any way as long as I get a deal (don't expect it for free).


Geno


I can drink a lotta beer in 30 minEdited by: geno

Have you tried an electric cooling fan on the original cooler?


Yes I have. Didn't do diddly for stop n go heat build up. I put a Setrab Model 640 Oil cooler in place of the OEM and all 220+ temp days went away. Most I ever see now is 180. The Setrab is a stacked plate and holds at least 4 times the fluid of the OEM. It is around 13 x 11 x 2. I had some Jiffy Tite to AN-10 adapters made by Jiffy Tite (great folks) to use the factory quick connects. I had to make new mounting brakets and other stuff. I did also talk to Allison's engineering department and asked the head field engineer about what he thought. He admitted they had an issue and said my mod should work to reduce overall temps, but it wasn't really required with the 220 temps I was seeing. It was still too high for me. Mods that showed up with the 04 LLY Ally combo were what he told me would solve the problem for the future. They included a new solenoid, wiring harness, control software which resulted in higher fluid flow at idle. I couldn't retro the new tranny in my truck because the controls for the new solenoid weren't coming out till the LLY change.


Too bad MikeL. didn't do this sooner. It would have saved me 2 fans, plus temp controllers, plus all kinds of hoses and fittings, temperature monitors, all kinds of Transynd going down the drain, etc. That's all money that could have gone into something else.


At least 3 others people have done the same mod, all with similar success.


Chris

The highest temperature I’ve seen, (on my gauge), is 200 deg F., pulling my 10K 5ver in 90 Deg heat, through flat land, with Mag-Hytec, Transynd, and an air scoop to the cooler. That is still in the acceptable range, though 160 – 180 would be better. I rarely pull through the mountains though.
My concern, is many times in winter, the tranny temperature barely gets up to 150 Deg F., which is on the low side.
I used to question why the cooler on my 2002 Chev was ½ covered by the factory grill. Maybe this is a good thing in winter to prevent overcooling, and with my cooler scoop, I can still direct additional air to cooler in warmer weather, ONLY when it’s needed.

Thats what a cold front is for in the winter.


And a 9'6" plow blocks alot of airflow. My trany temp seems to climb faster in the winter than my water temp thoughhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Ermm.gif


So ya need a beta tester? I just as soon get one sooner than later. I just didnt want to monkey with coming up with the set up and nuking my trany from doing or not doing something. The allison aint like an old 350http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Geek.gif

I always use the Cold Front when the temp drops to freezing. At this time, I am not towing the 5ver nor do I plow.


If people are plowing with the cold front on, I would expect the tranny to heat up, and I didn't think about a plow causing air flow problems.


If I could re-phrase from my last post, there's a lot of time in NE WI. when outside temperature is in the &lt;70 Deg., and if not loading the truck, tranny temp barely gets to 150 Deg F.

Something to remember:


there is no airflow to the trans cooler below 35 mph. The cooler is on its own till speed increases.


mike

cold front off while plowing, like I said 9'6" hunk of steel does good enough job blocking air

Something to remember:
there is no airflow to the trans cooler below 35 mph. The cooler is on its own till speed increases.


mike





Mike-


This is why I have considered adding a fan to the cooler. Very often during the summer I go to the Desert to do some 'Geocaching' (www.geocaching.com (http://www.geocaching.com)). I am usually well under 35mph and the temps are over 100!


This fan which is water proof seems to fit the bill:
http://shop.offroadwarehouse.com/index.php?cat=108&amp;item=141991


I was condisering making some type of plenium (sp?) that goes on the back side of the cooler that will house the fan. Run a wire to the cab to switch it on when I want to.


What are your thoughts on this?

Mike330R,


I put not one, but two differet fans on trying to get more air flow at lower speeds. I also put a switch in to turn on the fan when I wanted and even tried a temp controller. It really did very little, I'd say no more than 5-10 degrees. Save your $63 and put it towards a larger cooler. I spent over $200 on that project to come away with nothing but a pile of parts.


Chris

I went almost 7 months (17,000 miles) and the trans gage never seen it too the 150* mark. I would like to find a nice winter cover before next winter rolls around. As it is I will not use the piece of rag that I recieved with the truck. It collects salt, rock, and moiture (All bad on a $35,000 truck.)


The first winter I used both pieces of the front cover, and within 6 weeks the bumper was showing rusthttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

Mike,


Have you considered a thermostat controlled bypass valve that would allow flow to bypass the radiator during the summer months. If not a new cooler would only help with temps over 190 degrees as the flow is in series with the radiator to promote warmer fluid in the winter. The engine thermostat is 190 degrees set temp. (I think)http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Confused.gif

a bear


I am not worried about a bypass valve, I will leave that up to someone else since it will require cutting lines and splicing. I am doing this as simple as possible.


mike

a bear


I am not worried about a bypass valve, I will leave that up to someone else since it will require cutting lines and splicing. I am doing this as simple as possible.


mike





Then I guess the lowest temp that will be accomplished is 190 degrees. (engine temp) This is the first summer I will have sustained heavy towing So I'll be watching to see if I break the 190 mark. If so your cooler will also be in my future. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Thanks, Tommy

a bear


Think about this: normaly your engine is at 210 deg and your trans temp is at 150 at best. You cruise the hyway and trans tem stays low. (cooler is working efficiently now). Why has the trans temp not risen to engine temps under these circumstances? ( engine temp 210-trans temp 150) Now we get to stop and go driving; engine temp does not stray from 210, trans temp skyrockets to just over 200 deg. Did the engine all of a sudden do this? No, trans pressure did this. Most transmissions have a CPS (control pressure solenoid) and are regulated by throttle position. Low voltage to the CPS equals high line pressure and the opposite for high voltage. Thats why when the trans goes into limp (usually all voltage to trans is inhibited, they shift hard for protection). Most transmissions run about 70 psi line pressure at idle and rise with gas pedal pressure. ( ie 70 psi line, hit the throttle and line pressure rises to 140 psi and can spike to over 200 psi depending on throttle position). The Ally pressure is not regulated so to speak. It sits there at 250 psi all the time ( due to a garage door spring in the pressure regulator valve). This is what creates heat; unwanted pressure when you don't need it. Pump is working its ass off and truck is doing nothing, and there is no air flow through the cooler. Heat. The new '04 trucks(LLY only) has addressed this problem, how well, we don't know yet. Your idea of the bypass valve is a good one. I don't want to make anything complicated for the guys and it wont make much of a difference, but a purist like you would like it. I did not mean any of this post to upset or flame you in any way. I welcome your ideas, I like your posts and know you are smart. I am open to any good idea and learn daley from people that I would never have thought could teach me. This is cool.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


mike

Mike.... You're PUNK! not a punk, but PUNK! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs%20Up.gifhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Thumbs%20Up.gif





Burner-----------&gt; http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif

Mike,


No problem. I didn't take your post as a flaming. I guess I was more or less seeking information and hoping you would shed some light on what I had going through my head at the time. This some times gets me into trouble due to not thinking about the way I write things. I have no doubt the cooler you are working on will work just fine the way it is. If I see temps I dont like on my tranny this summer I will be one of your first customers. You are already my choice for upgrading my transmission if ever I can find the time. Myself and most everyone here can attest to the fact that you contribute a wealth of knowledge to us rookies. Keep up the good work. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


TommyEdited by: a bear

Hello, Mike is there any ideas when the new cooler will be ready...or available for testing/evaluation etc...Maybe in a few weeks? (any dates for us to keep in mind).....Thanks, http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Sir-Col

Mike L.,


you have a PM.


JP

I'm still interested Mike. Haven't heard from ya lately.


JP

Heart Beat... Mike's busy finishing up my Allison upgradehttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif. Hopefully I'll be able to pick up my truck tomorrow, so guys, no more questions until after 12 Thursday! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

Ha! It's all very clear now....http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


JP

Mike have you thought any about changing the relief valve spring on the older trans if the new LLY trucks work better? Might be an opportunity for more business. Later! Frank

Frank, It's actually not a new spring, the valve body was re-designed to incorporate a new solenoid - G solenoid. I have heard conflicting stories of whether it can be added to the 01-03 valve bodies or not. Time will tell I guess.......

Frank, It's actually not a new spring, the valve body was re-designed to incorporate a new solenoid - G solenoid. I have heard conflicting stories of whether it can be added to the 01-03 valve bodies or not. Time will tell I guess.......











I can tell you this about the valve body, when you replace an old style one you get a new style one. The new valvebody works just like the old one but without pressure control. The pressure control circuit goes to the TCM at connector C2-30. This space is unused in an earlier truck. It might just be electrical.

I guess the old days of straight hydraulics are long gone. Later! Frank

I guess the old days of straight hydraulics are long gone. Later! Frank


Living in LosAngeles, I sometimes think the old days of straight people are gone.


mike

I guess the old days of straight hydraulics are long gone. Later! Frank


Living in LosAngeles, I sometimes think the old days of straight people are gone.


mike





Ditto that!

Hey guys, I just purchased an 04 D/A CC LT. But this one did not have a cold front end or bumper cover in it. Is this an option or did someone forget to put it in the truck. I'm in North Carolina if that makes any difference.

Mike


No word from you on any progress since you announced it on May 13. Is this going to happen?

Hey guys, I just purchased an 04 D/A CC LT. But this one did not have a cold front end or bumper cover in it. Is this an option or did someone forget to put it in the truck. I'm in North Carolina if that makes any difference.


It's optional I believe Now, in 01 02 they came in every truck ...


Mac

I am very close to my goal. Remember, I want a drop-in cooler that will drop temps 20 deg minimum. I will not put my name on a cooler thast does nothing. This has been very difficult to put together correctly. I am one fitting away from extacy. This is hard, this is fun.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif Hang in there if you want the best cooler ever.


mike

Mike L. Certainly seeing an average drop of 20 degress will be good for tranny. living in Michigan we see warm summers as well as cold winters. While snowmobiling this past January we had temps down to 20 below. With your new cooler, would there be any downsides to running in temps that cold? Thanks GRMax

Mike L. Certainly seeing an average drop of 20 degress will be good for tranny. living in Michigan we see warm summers as well as cold winters. While snowmobiling this past January we had temps down to 20 below. With your new cooler, would there be any downsides to running in temps that cold? Thanks GRMax





GRMax


You bet there are downsides to cold temps in the trans. They can crash as fast as hot ones. I will have this worked out. I will not sell anything that will hurt your trans. Excellent question. GRMax


mike

No cold problems here.

Mike L.


For towing in summer months, your cooler sounds like an excellent investment. Please keep us posted as to your thoughts concerning driving cold areas/winter months with your new cooler.


Also, could your cooler impact how much you have to invest in stock Allison [ like a Suncoast 3 or comparable] to properly protect from level 4-5 settings in an Edge/Attitude? Kind of asking what the impact of heat has to HP/Torque rating limitations to stock Allison. Heat can be a killer in any transmission and certainly effects longevitiy overall. Thanks again, GRMax

Update.


Found a company that will do the impossible adapter. I ordered 2 Setrab coolers for fitting. ( this is a pain in the butt guys) seems like most machine shops don't want to make some money. I hope to have one mounted on my truck within 2 weeks.


GRMax


The new cooler will help tremendously against heat. It will do nothing for the Ally as far as holding power or performance. It will keep temps down which is a big plus. It will dissapate the heat your power program will put into the Ally quicker. Modil 1 trans fluid will help a lot. I like Mobil 1 because it is a Dexron 111 replacement ( proper coefficient) I am not sold on TranSynd because I think it is a renamed Castrol Syntec trans fluid ( done for monetary reasons by Allison) and it turns yellow just like the Syntec and separates colors in the pan. Does that mean anything? I don't know. Seems you could use a better dye for what they charge. IMHO, Mobil 1 can not be beat by anyone.


mike

Mike L.


Thanks for your input. I run Transynd/deep pan though I appreciate your comments as it seems like overpriced marketing hype might be the case with Transynd. Look forward to hearing about your cooler when its ready. GRMax

Update.


Found a company that will do the impossible adapter. I ordered 2 Setrab coolers for fitting. ( this is a pain in the butt guys) seems like most machine shops don't want to make some money. I hope to have one mounted on my truck within 2 weeks.
mike

Which Setrab model is this going to based off of?
I've seen the 640 mentioned elsewhere on this
forum and the best price I've found for that
model is well over $300. (~$320 from BakerPrecision
http://www.bakerprecision.com/setrab.htm)

thanks for any insight,

T.

Hey guys, I just purchased an 04 D/A CC LT. But this one did not have a cold front end or bumper cover in it. Is this an option or did someone forget to put it in the truck. I'm in North Carolina if that makes any difference.


GM supplies these cold weather fronts only "if" you live/buy a GM truck in a "cold weather state". Don't remember at the moment, but GM lists these states somewhere on their website in the ordering process.Edited by: SteveNorCal

Terry


I will be a Setrab dealer; if I get enough orders I will wherehouse them which will drop price dramatically (.38%). I would of course pass on the savings to customers. My target is to keep kit below 300.00 if I can.


mike

if you need to start getting orders in, well heres a start. you can count me in on at least one!!!!

Hello Mike, I am watching this post with intense intrest, and also will be considering a cooler, keep us advised...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Thanks, Sir-Col

Hey MikeL,

I went ahead and installed that old 14" electric fan I had in the previous truck. Made an aluminum bracket to mount it where it completely covers the allison's cooler.

So far it has worked great! I set the thermostat controller for 150 F. Last year when I towed from TX to Grand Canyon the tranny ran a continous 195 F with a max of 210 F. I just finished a trip from TX to Idaho Springs, CO. Normal operating temp fell to 160 F and the highest I saw was 180 F on I70 climbing to go through Eisenhower (sp) tunnel (7 miles of 7% grade). Juice was on level two, tow/haul, 65 mph cuise control.

I am happy!

P.S. Wish you luck on the cooler!

Mike L.,





It's getting hot in TX, are you getting close?

I am getting close. I have the test coolers in hand, got them yesterday. I will be doing fitting this week. I think I have done ok for only a month.


mike

I do too!http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif


Blake

Need some help guys. There are some Duramaxes with different coolers which I have not seen yet and would like to see . Supposedly there are 3 different coolers. GM cannot tell me what the difference is. I am basing my first cooler on the most popular one which fits most '01 to '04s. I know that '03 and '04 are the same as mine and some '02s. What I need is for anyone with an '01 and '02 that works or lives near me to give me a visit or I will come to you so that I can get measurements. Thank You


mike

Mike,


I have an early 2002 (October, 2001 build date). I normally don't drive it to work, but I can if you need to get a measurement. Your only a couple of miles away. Let me know.





AlanEdited by: OC_DMAX

Hello Mike, how is the progress on the supercoolers coming along? This post has been quiet for some time, and a update or progress report would be nice for those of us who are wondering.....tell us what is happening. Many thanks, and keep up the good work...http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif


Sir-Col

I will be at TTS tomorrow installing cooler on my truck and making brackets. I will run it on my truck for a week looking for leaks. I will then pull it, and have it tested by some people that know how to use their Duramax. My Duramax so far is a *****, and has only had to haul 5 people and golf bags. I am close guys. ( This thing better drop 20 deg. or better under load.)


mike

Mike, youre the man, thanks for the update - cant wait to get one installed when theyre ready - thanks again for all your work here http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif Edited by: tbone1227

Mike- Are you looking for a tester for that cooler? My truck has 46k and I tow 3 out of 5 days, from 12k to 27k gcw. I'd be willing to pay the freight to help out, just let me know.


Marty

Mike, what is the latest on your cooler?

I will be at TTS tomorrow installing cooler on my truck and making brackets. I will run it on my truck for a week looking for leaks. I will then pull it, and have it tested by some people that know how to use their Duramax. My Duramax so far is a *****, and has only had to haul 5 people and golf bags. I am close guys. ( This thing better drop 20 deg. or better under load.)


mike





I'll test it for ya EAST COAST Style............http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif


Unless somebody else has volunteered.........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif





Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gifNYEdited by: GMC-2002-Dmax

TONYhttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clown.gif


I pulled the cooler off my truck and put it on Trippins an hour ago. He lives in a very hot area, he also drives his truck like he stole it. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif He has been seeing 200+ on a regular basis and that garage door spring I put back in his ATS ( pressure regulator) is not helping. His truck will be a much better test than mine.


mike

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Clap.gif

Tell him AC full blast and converter unlocked and report back.That's when I'm my hottest.


Xtreme or stacked of course,man she's a ripper,tire ripper .http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif





Mac

Mac


Thats exactly why he has it and not me. I don't do enough driving and don't have enough hp. ( are you listening Diesel Tech? http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif) J/K I don't want to make another move till I see Guys temps and get his feedback.( he will be towing to lake Powel shortly) I figure the Arizona heat, TTS program, high mainline pressure,and big load in tow with a nut case driver should test it pretty well.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif If the cooler passes, I will then pull the cooler off Guys truck and go to my sheet metal shop for final brackets. Then I will pick some testers that tow all the time in the heat, this has to be fast, and if I like what I hear, I will be ready to ship in no time. One good thing, when I switched coolers on our trucks, it took me 1 hour start to finish, and that was also looking for Diesel Techs tools because I did not know where he kept a lot of stuff and he was too busy to talk to. This is a true drop in. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif If this puppy works, I'll be struttin like a peacock. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cool.gif

I heard that Trippin is easy on that 2003......http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


Seen he drove Nick's truck real nice..........as it ain't his...........http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Embarrased.gif


http://www.wackywack.com/images/dmax/strips.jpg


http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gifEdited by: GMC-2002-Dmax

Great work mike! I hope this cooler works out. If it at least reduces the cycling of that noisy fan clutch during heavy tows that would be a plus in itself. Keep up the good work. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Approve.gif

Mike, Whats your recommendation for the guys up north who see both hot temps in the summer as well as cold temps in the winter?


My tranny runs pretty cool when its below zero outside as it is. Of course I was towing 10,000 lbs. last week one day when it was close to 90 degrees outside and the Alli was running hotter than I would like to see.

GRMax


There will not be any issues in cold weather whatsoever with this cooler. We have fluid preheated by radiator and 250 psi. Just remember Dexron 3 jells at -27 F.


mike

Thanks. What does Transynd gel at? Though I may switch to Amsoil when Eric does my Suncoast.

I was reading the Allison manual last night ( bed time storys http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif). Allison claims Dexron 3 jells at - 27 deg, and Transynd at -29. I hope they are wrong cause Mobil 1 will tear them a new A--hole on this one. This is straight out of the Allison book. I am begining to think I am correct about Transynd. I think it's a blend; it changes colors (separates) like something didn't mix all the way. They have been known to lie about their synthetics.


mike

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif-27 or -29, thats a mild day in the winter months. Wow, didn't figure it would be that high. I warm my truck up before driving in the winter and she still stays in select gears until shes warmed up like its suppose to. Man i need a heated garage to help my tired truck out http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Cry.gif

Hello to all looking for cooling improvements. I would like to mod my truck also. Here is what I think.


1. Putting a larger cooler in the same location will cool the tranny better.


2. It will also lower the efficiency of the already struggling AC condenser (115 degrees here.)


3. It will cause the fan clutch to engage more often and the fan will stay on longer, not fun. it sucks now, I can't fathom more engagement.


4. It will/may increase the temp of the engine compartment, where intake air temp will increase.


5. a larger cooler requires more flow (for max effectiveness). The question is, will the existing lines underutilize a larger cooler? The lines and connections are the majority of flow resistance from what I have seen. Larger (straight) lines minimizing fitting restrictions and bends may be an essential consideration in the success of this mod. The existing lines, if you look closely, are not very efficient hydraulicly, my area of knowledge.


If I interpret the cooling stack correctly, the tranny cooler is spaced a few inches in front of the condenser, and the fan probably has minimal impact trying to enhance heat transfer from that small cooler, though I am uncertain on this critical point.


I am an engineer not a mechanic, and no way want to disuade the direction of this thread, just pointing out some considerations, I am seriously thinking of engineering a new larger cooler behind the air dam scoop, that will dump it's heat load under the truck, negating all of the tradeoffs above. It is lower and perhaps subject to more road debris, though a screen may remedy that, easily done with the existing fasteners. I will take this to a new thread, not wanting to disrespect the progress made on an in-place swappable cooler, with it's install advantages. Just wanted to know what some of you think.

Michael Posted - "It will cause the fan clutch to engage more often and the fan will stay on longer, not fun. it sucks now, I can't fathom more engagement." - why would it cause the fan clutch to engage more ? Trippen, you out there, did you find that to be the case ?

tbone


More heat is going to be created by the bigger cooler. The fan clutch is engaged when a specific temp is reached at the fan location. IOW, the stack, enhanced in it's overall heat transfer efficiency, is going to create a higher temp flowing to the fan clutch. That hotter air, in turn, enters the engine compartment, where it is sucked into the intake. Yes, the tranny is cooler, everything else is hotter. How significant the impact? is subject to analysis, or in our case, speculation.

masterp2


You don't really believe all that stuff do you? There is no way you are going to make things hotter under the hood with this cooler. There is much more of a chance that the red hot atf is going to heat up the radiator and kick in the fan clutch.


mike

thats kind of what i was trying to figure out as well - it doesnt seem possible that it would bring engine heat up but a minimal amount if any.

Not sure what you are saying, but yes, i do. I believe that the LLY cooling stack is already overburdened, especially here.


Don't misunderstand my intentions. I have a different idea. I don't want to add even more heat to this stack. And if you are taking it out of the tranny, it is going into the engine compartment by way of all the other heat transfer steps, rendering them each stepwise less efficient by changing their respective delta T for heat transfer. I'm not making it up. True it is effective (tranny), but the tradeoffs should be acknowledged. And in most parts of the country, those tradeoffs may not be assaulting, I believe that here, they are. For example, if you live in a place cool enough that you've never heard the fan, you are lucky. In Phoenix, driving an LLY with 10K behind it, the fan never shut's off on a 110 degree day. That's 10+ HP and 90 dB just trying to cool.


Just trying to be part of the discussion. But like I said, I posted a new thread, I don't want to detract from your progress, your cooler IS a good idea. You have a great idea and your cooler is going to be a hit.

Michael Posted - "It will cause the fan clutch to engage more often and the fan will stay on longer, not fun. it sucks now, I can't fathom more engagement." - why would it cause the fan clutch to engage more ? Trippen, you out there, did you find that to be the case ?


I'm here. See the "other cooler" thread for my answers.


http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12791&amp;PN=1Edited by: Trippin

Trippin


In reading some of your other commentary during testing, you have acknowledged lousy AC in your truck, correct? Don't you believe that if you removed the cooler from the factory location, that your truck would be COLDer? Don't you believe that you have further decreased your AC efficiency, more so at non-highway speeds?


Assume you are haulin uphill, and generating 15,000 BTU heat removal from the cooler. Where is that going? Straight back two inches to the condenser, rendering about 100 sq inches of the condenser relatively inneffective to the tune of maybe 10,000 BTU, in the form of reduced delta T. Now I know it is not this simple, but one of those window units that runs on 110, blows 30-40K BTU, for an entire large room. Without performing a manual J for a truck cab, I'll bet it has less heat load than my master bedroom. 10,000 BTU would go a long way I think.


Just throwing concepts around, truth is, until that cooler is moved, we won't know what AC really is. But I'll let you know.


I would guess that a new cooler is going to be mostly snapped up by folks in hot climates, people who are not interested in losing AC efficiency.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


I'm sorry if I am spoiling the fun at all, but if it's a spotted dog, let's call him spot.

Trippin


In reading some of your other commentary during testing, you have acknowledged lousy AC in your truck, correct? Don't you believe that if you removed the cooler from the factory location, that your truck would be COLDer? Don't you believe that you have further decreased your AC efficiency, more so at non-highway speeds?


Assume you are haulin uphill, and generating 15,000 BTU heat removal from the cooler. Where is that going? Straight back two inches to the condenser, rendering about 100 sq inches of the condenser relatively inneffective to the tune of maybe 10,000 BTU, in the form of reduced delta T. Now I know it is not this simple, but one of those window units that runs on 110, blows 30-40K BTU, for an entire large room. Without performing a manual J for a truck cab, I'll bet it has less heat load than my master bedroom. 10,000 BTU would go a long way I think.


Just throwing concepts around, truth is, until that cooler is moved, we won't know what AC really is. But I'll let you know.


I would guess that a new cooler is going to be mostly snapped up by folks in hot climates, people who are not interested in losing AC efficiency.http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Angry.gif


I'm sorry if I am spoiling the fun at all, but if it's a spotted dog, let's call him spot.








Masterp2,


Your not spoiling the fun.....discussion is good! I like it! http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Hug.gif


We could call the dog Spot.........or Fish. http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif


The pretzel logic that GM used, to tell me why my AC was not efficiently cooling my truck...... They talked about how the trans cooler/radiator/inter-cooler/AC condenser stack in the front of the truck would not let the AC run as efficient as my 1999 6.0 Chevy 2500. My response was, yes I understand that there is a lot of heat being dissipated up front, yet it doesn't make sense that when I ride in my brother's Powerstroke and my neighbors Cummins they both manage to get near the point of making ice cubes inside the cab on a 100 degree day and my GM does not. They are all dealing with the same type of cooling stack up front. So why is my beloved GM product having such trouble? Perhaps we should post a notice in the sales department of this dealership that reads "Warning, AC is non-existent on any 2003 Duramax powered vehicle because GM engineers are unwilling to admit they made a mistake in their design considerations/calculations and/or GM further refuses to correct it."


At which time they decided to call Detroit and see if there were any further AC band aids which were not listed in the system. They discovered an "unreleased" orifice change to correct weak AC output on DMAX vehicles. Which did help immensely. Yet there is still room for improvement.


Now I understand there is an accumulator change available in the latest TSB.<IMG onMouseOver="this.style.cursor='hand'" onMouseOut="this.style.cursor=''" alt='Click on image to open in new window' onClick="window.open('http://dieselplace.com/foru

Mike,


I do like this much needed effort. For sure, some of us need improvement. Thanks for paving the way.


by all accounts, the mods that have been done in the LLY have caused it to be a hotter running beast. Some of the fixes trippin mention for AC efficiency etc show that, and none of GM's mods for 04 addressed cooling apparently. just my assessment from reading a lot of accounts. Add an edge and a 10K trailer, big tires, and a few of these guys are not making up the hill anymore. My own experience empty is that my fan clutch stays on most of my city driving, a complaint many owners have with the LLY here in Sam Kinneson's desert for 6 months. Since the fan clutch hasn't changed, that tells me that truck performance (and marketing hype) comes with a price. And the engine and AC changes are a big part of that. BTW, the IC engine temp guage doesn't clearly represent the heat it is dissipating, it is just saying the system is working, when the needle stays put. I believe the engine (with intercooler) is 60-70%, stock tranny cooler 20% and condenser, 10%, of the stack heat load. (guesstimations). A new, really efficient cooler in the stack will up that 100% to 120%, worst case.


Have you done any testing your project in the chip modified LLY, in 115 degree, pulling 12K up 6-8%? That's the test, it's the worst case scenario. After all, if the truck boils, it's game over. But if that engine gauge stays put, rock on. I'm sure there are one or 2 volunteers here.


On edit: Guess what I am trying to say is that if the LLY is near its cooling capacity limit for worst case conditions, then additional heat dissipation will narrow the trucks operating envelope proportionately. It is possible to boil the motor, while the tranny is contently cool, in theory. The fan in idle, in my observation is mute to the cooler, that is, with respect to the cooler, it does help it cool, but not in an obvious way. The fan cools down the radiator effectively, making the radiator less "damaging" to the job the cooler is trying to do. But as far as moving much ambient air past the cooler, the velocity is almost nill, about a foot from the fan, with 3 other sources of resistance sandwiched in between.. Edited by: masterp2