Hi, all,


I have a pyrometer and a trans temp guage to install in my 98 Sierra 6.5. What is the general concencus regarding location of the thermocouple. Pre-Turbo, Post-Turbo, or "doesn't really matter"?


Also, what temperature ranges (pre or post, and trans) should I expect?


(Forgive me if this has been hashed out already here, I don't see any postings on this topic and I'm fairly new here http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gif )


Thanks!

You can "Ask" one of the tech's or Kennedy...........


Click here ---> Ask the Tech's (http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_topics.asp?FID=22)


or


here ---> Kennedy (http://www.kennedydiesel.com)


at the "PLACE"


The short answer is:


The pre turbo location will tell you the temps out of the cylinders....the post turbo is good if you want to see the turbo "COOL DOWN" before shutting down the truck


Tranny temp can be monitored in the "SUMP" by inserting the sending unit in the tranny pan or possibly "T-ing" the line.


BTW-welcome to the Forum.......





Thttp://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/Big Smile.gifNYEdited by: GMC-2002-Dmax

Thanks for the input! I've decided that the pyro will go pre-turbo, just below the turbo as per John Kennedy's site (looks like a good location for measurement, easy to reach and inspect, and looks like it's practically made to have a sensor installed).


The trans temp is likely going in the sump. The gauge I ordered comes with a fitting to braze into the pan, rather than tee into the line to the cooler, and I haven't found a convincing reason not to put it there, (yet).


thewoz

I have it post turbo and wish I would have put it pre and not been so lazy.


I have always heard that the transmission temperature will normally be real close to the coolant temperature saince it is cooled/heated in the radiator by the coolant.


I have the isspro gauge with the colors on it so I don't have to think about the temperature. If it gets close to the yellow, I usually back off a little.

Is there any concern about the pyro tip breaking off and going thru the turbo? It might be very rare but you are taking a chance with your turbo. But I do believe that pre is the best temp reading. post is "safer". Can one get a good reading on cylinder temp by going post?

Pyrometer tips do not break off - without some prior abuse.


EGT probes are encased in 1/4" stainless tubing, sealed. If an engine damages that probe, to point of breakability, the engine has also become damaged at that point.


The only tale I heard about, was some question concerning probe someone had 'inherited', using it instead of real, and more expensive, EGT probe for automotive use.


My probe is in the driver's-side exhaust manifold at the rear where it turns down toward the flange.


Easy to drill and tap for 1/8" pipe fitting there. 1/8" fitting can be safely drilled out to 1/4" bore for probe.


My secondary probe is in the downpipe, 1" below flange, used for comparo readings for interpreting forum posts.


Theres a 'boss' in the turbo-side exhaust manifold, below the flange, suitable for drilling and tapping.


However - always follow directions in gage package, whether pre- or post-turbo installation.

Take a look at all the big diesel trucks and tractors. Every one I have ever seen has been installed post turbo. That should tell you something.

At 1100cuin and up, 18-wheeler engines are capable of more intensive, rapid EGT changes.


Welding a pyro probe fitting into a steel downpipe prevents stress cracking of cast manifolding, where required boss would be tapped for pipe fitting.


Also, pre-turbo probes react more quickly, and can be 'worrisome' - takes some getting used to, compared to post-turbo probe.


K-type pre- and post- probes are identical, gages differ in range numerics and colored graphics.

Regardless of location guys, WHAT about the metal drillings and tapping shavings?? Pre-turbo you get to blow shavings through the turbine inlet and post-turbo you get to blow shavings into the intake and into the combustion chambers.


I guess you can remove the downpipe or exhaust manifold casting, but I'd hate to mess with that . . .


Thanks!

If you go post turbo, the only thing thing they could get into is the cat ot muffler.

My Bad. Don't know why I was thinking along INTAKE tract post-turbo. I'm an idiot, need coffee. Thanks!

Whichever you decide for sure here is the article on how to do a pre-turbo install in the exhaust manifold. (http://dieselplace.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=946&PN=2)

Of all the people who have drilled and tapped the exhaust manifold, 99 percent did not remove any parts when following my directions and no one as far as I know has ever had a stress fracture in the manifold.

There is another method that can be used. A very few have drilled the small 90deg bed that bolts to the back of the exhaust manifold. It's SS tubing. You then use a special clamp that is a SS hose clamp with a hole in it that the thermocouple goes into. No tapping required.

Edited by: hoot

mine is post turbo in the downpipe and running 10psi of boost i rarely see over 600deg. i think you're supposed to be okay up to 1200. still running conservative but until i get more fuel delivery this is where i am.

mine is post turbo in the downpipe and running 10psi of boost i rarely see over 600deg. i think you're supposed to be okay up to 1200. still running conservative but until i get more fuel delivery this is where i am.

Since you are post turbo you need to add about 300 deg to your 600 and that's only an estimate. If you see 1200 post turbo you are really into danger territory of 1500 that could do damage if you sustain it for a long period.

For those that would like to monitor turbo temp, an egt probe post turbo is really no the way to go. A thermocouple neds to be bolted to the cast housing as this is the culprit as far as overheating your engine oil is concerned. You will find that after a very hard run the turbo actually gets hotter and hold it for a while after you shut down. If your probe is in the exhaust stream it will show a major temp drop while your housing is still hotter than hell and rising slightly. The LB7 water cooled turbo pretty much removes the need for monitoring turbo temps but the LLY is a different animal. Not alot known about it's operating characteristics.

OOOOOPS... just noticed this is the 6.5 forum..

Well some of what I said pertainsEdited by: hoot

OK HOOT


All forgiven for being in the wrong place at the right time. Thanks for the info, I found it to be what I was looking for BUT now how much does pertains to our 6.5's also. Pre or Post my Autometer EGT kit said to install in the down pipe which would be post turbo so does it matter much for the 6.5. And what temps should I see as normal ?

This is a good question for John Kennedy or others that have more experience with the 6.5. I had a few of them but never did any engine mods.

Hoot,

What happens to the hot water the turbo makes on the LB7?
I've been thinking that you could generate steam with all the heat coming off the turbo.

Hoot,

What happens to the hot water the turbo makes on the LB7?
I've been thinking that you could generate steam with all the heat coming off the turbo.


Lot's of people have asked that question. My guess is there is a certain amount of convection current that moves heat away when she's shut down. A natural "rolling" of coolant. Cooling systems suppress steam with pressure and chemicals.Edited by: hoot

It occured to me that steam formation is natural and could be harnessed to further the effiecency of the diesel engine.
Steam turbines power america, why couldn't it add to the power of your rig while keeping it cool?

its all energy brother. think on!

It occured to me that steam formation is natural and could be harnessed to further the effiecency of the diesel engine.
Steam turbines power america, why couldn't it add to the power of your rig while keeping it cool?


In a closed system with no air, you shouldn't get any steam. If it has enough convection, it is unlikely that it would even boil after shutdown.

Right, but if you left it half air on purpose and utilized the steam you could rig it with a second turbine the steam turned.
This is the most interested in a dmax I've ever been.

Right, but if you left it half air on purpose and utilized the steam you could rig it with a second turbine the steam turned.
This is the most interested in a dmax I've ever been.

Now I see why you call yourself quantum mechanic. Keep your ideas rolling. You do have a point with using any available heat to do something with instead of wasting it out the exhaust or even working a pump to cool it. Unfortunately the turbo water cavity is much too small to use and the turbocharger itself requires the heat for expansion (thanks JK).Edited by: hoot

I had the idea for a waterjacketed turbohousing that turned a turbine before I heard about the Dmax using it, I don't even know how it's set up on the Dmax.
I just like the idea of using what's around as energy and heat seems to be a big factor for my 6.5.
Steam is produced at 800-1000 deg. F, isn't that hot enough for turbo opperation?

There's a lot of that available when you tow with a 6.5 http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/smileys/HiHi.gif

mobile sauna oh yeah

Quantum Mechanic,


First off, I don't mean to flame you, but just wanted to point out some things from my steam plant experience.


How would you condense the steam? Then how would you pump the condensate back to a holding tank (which would need to be bigger than the radiator), maintain level in the tank, prevent corrosion in the system, dissipate the heat from the main condenser, and make it nearly maintenance free for use in an every day vehicle? The plants I work on require constant attention and care by a lot of people, and I don't see a way around that with the type of application you are suggesting.


Your idea also sounds like a perpetual motion machine. You can't power something with the energy it creates without some source of energy (fuel), the heat from friction would not generate enough steam to add power to the turbine that is making the friction, it just doesn't make sense. If that worked, then we wouldn't need engines at all, we could just drive around and the friction from the moving parts would supply us with the energy we would need to accelerate.


Steam turbines are usually also most efficient at a particular speed (except the ones designed for Navy ships, which are much less efficient than they could be for the same size, but they must turn at varying speeds to change the speed of the vessel). Probably wouldn't be ideal to make high boost at all engine RPM, might result in excessive wear.


Not to discount what could be possible and definitely not to discount thinking about ways to make more power, but I work with nuclear powered steam plants all the time, and they (the steam plant part) probably wouldn't lend themselves to the type of small application needed for vehicular power (Yes, I know we used to use steam engines in locomotives and some vehicles some years ago)

If you wanted to make energy from the friction of your moving parts that's not impossible, just unpatentable.

As far as steam, I'm all ponder and no experience.

I agree that you could definitely harvest friction energy, but with a combustion engine you already have more heat than can be used anyway. Seems like it would be more beneficial to eliminate the friction completely than to try to harvest it. How about some sort of magnetic bearings where no moving parts touch. They would be light and would yield no wear and no heat.


Ponder is great, most of the greatest inventors in the world had no experience, they just pondered. . .

super conducting material would be lighter, magnetic and have levatation potential.
might need some liquid nitrogen to keep it cold enough.

Don't really know much about super conductors. Sounds pretty good except for liquid N2. Hopefully technology will get better so we wouldn't have to use it.


Some of the newer pumps on the modern submarine plants are using magnetic bearings and they are super quiet and very efficient. Almost no maintenance either since there isn't any bearing wear. They are awesome but they aren't cheap.


Dennis

I'm ready to trade my axles and wheels for eletric motors and turbofans and get out of houston traffic for good.
Soon as technology allows.

levitation is cool

http://www.hfml.kun.nl/pics/2fingers.jpg
levatation is cool.
I found this looking for magnetic bearings.

I'm layin' it out: There is some serious potential in magnetic bearings for ultra low friction, ultra-high efficiency, high-power applications. The guy who has these things in his truck will smoke the competition.


You heard it here first,
Dennis

I just installed my ISS Pro pyro and boost gauges on Sat. Pyo Post-turbo on downpipe. Turbo is off 'Tee' on top of intake. Lollygagging around the roads I live on 30-35 mph hardly any boost and egt 300 or so. Highway 75 mph cruising 3-4 psi egt 600. When I set cruise at 70mph (no load on/in vehicle) and ascended the blue ridge mts here in VA, she downshifted to 3rd, boosted to 12psi and egt's climbed up to 1000. I thought this was high considering I was not towing anything. Then again, the grade was steep and 6000 lb pig needs to work hard no matter what . .

One more positive demo for gages first, then upgrades.


Post-turbo temps can be 300deg lower than pre-, minimum 200deg.


EGT is the life, or death, of your engine.