It was last tuesday and I had an appointment for thursday for the removal of my tranny for me to do a quiet little Suncoast Level 4 upgrade from a Level III. When this happened:

http://www.dieselplace.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85818

So I found myself another Ally to get the parts that were destroyed by that needle bearing. It happened in the back half and It had never been oppened from that end.

So while waiting for my used tranny and after talking to Eric I decided to do a complet teardown of the tranny to make sure that no needles and shavings made it to other parts. Needless to say that the 'Quiet' part of the install is now long gone... I have no mechanical background, I just know I to read.

I can't work on it until monday...

So here's a few impressions/questions:

- I installed the C3 and C4 in each side of the tranny and I was wondering how far down you guys had to compress the backing plate for each clutch pack to be able to put the snap rings back in? Mine was about .50 in. for both.


- I've put in the P1 ring gear AFTER the C3 was in and I had to turn it left and right a little to catch all the frinctions and I 'may' have dis-aligned the 12:00 alignment for the squirt hole in the piston. How bad is it? Should I do it again?

- When I did the C1 mod, the updated apply plate wouldn't sit right on the piston because the outer grove was too small. Joe told me to machine it .020 smaller and I also opted for a .010 deeper (my own decision) groove because otherwise I wasn't able to put the snap ring back in. The instructions calls for 1 less plate if this happends but the clearance when removing a plate was way to big and I didn't feel confortable with less holding power given my abuse of the truck. Did I make the right call?

- I was able to put the snap ring back in without compressing anything and the C1 clearance was .101. Is that ok?

- Since the transgo kit was already installed 2 years ago, I didn't tear down the C1/C2 drum farther than the C1 clutchpack. Did I miss something or is it ok?


Now I wait for the used tranny to arrive everything else is ready. Thinking back, I do have a snapring left on the bench that I'm not sur where it goes. I'm pretty sur it goes in the back half were I'm awaiting parts but it bothers me a little and I don't have access to the shop until monday. I may take a picture of it early monday and post-it just to calm myself...

Thanks for your help Eric, Joe and everyone and I'll keep you informed and post pictures of the upgrade.

JF.

- I installed the C3 and C4 in each side of the tranny and I was wondering how far down you guys had to compress the backing plate for each clutch pack to be able to put the snap rings back in? Mine was about .50 in. for both.

Thats about what mine were, use feeler guages to check clearences tho


- I've put in the P1 ring gear AFTER the C3 was in and I had to turn it left and right a little to catch all the frinctions and I 'may' have dis-aligned the 12:00 alignment for the squirt hole in the piston. How bad is it? Should I do it again?

I didnt have mine "perfectly" lined up and it seems fine;)



I would wait for Eric to answer all the rest of the questions tho, im no expert:eek:

Ben

Thanks DuraToTheMax, I read your update adventure earlier... That was almost the longest thread in the 'Place' history. A movie could me made out of it...

'Against all odds, in the face of adversity; one man did the impossible... MI:IV we're taking you to a whole new level... Level IV that is' :ro)


Sorry if it doean't end up to be funny, I was good in my head in french ):h

Way to go man!

Its very hard to gauge the clearance in the C3/4 packs with the return springs and planatary installed. When building, I will leave out the planatary and the return springs and stack everything else up in there then install the snap ring, this way you can very easily check your clutch pack clearance with no guessing or trying to figure out how much the springs are pushing etc. Once you have it how you like it that way, then you can install all the pieces and parts like the planatary and the return springs.

As far as tearing down the rotating assembly, the only reason I would have in your case is becuase of the bearing damage. Extra precaution must be used to be sure that every last little bit of that is removed as it will hang a valve instantly if it gets to the VB.

You should be fine on the C1. Rule of thumb for clearance on C1 pack is to leave enough room for the small Transgo bit to slide in there. Thats a good gauge. C1 is a "static" clutch pack only until the 5-4 shift as its on all the way up to 4th and therefore can use the large amount of clearance with out problems. Too much of course is not good, but .080-.100" is pretty decent.

Not sure what to tell you about the snap ring, but there is two of them on the C1 backplate. How big a snap ring we talking?

Just to be safe, spend some time inspecting the valve body. Seperate the two halves and clean well. If you have good organization skills, pull all the valves and springs and put in order on a clean rag and flush out the bores with brake/carb clean. One at a time, install the valve with no spring/retainer and shake the valve body back and forth. The valve should EASILY move in the bore. Check it dry as any oil can stick the valve a bit. Once all the valves move free, you can reassemble. Be sure to properly torque the VB bolts in a circular pattern working from the center.

Its very hard to gauge the clearance in the C3/4 packs with the return springs and planatary installed. When building, I will leave out the planatary and the return springs and stack everything else up in there then install the snap ring, this way you can very easily check your clutch pack clearance with no guessing or trying to figure out how much the springs are pushing etc. Once you have it how you like it that way, then you can install all the pieces and parts like the planatary and the return springs.

Obviously, my Ps are not there so I'll use your method on monday to check. However, I was wondering if pressing down the plate on the springs half an inche at least to install the snap ring is average ok?

As far as tearing down the rotating assembly, the only reason I would have in your case is becuase of the bearing damage. Extra precaution must be used to be sure that every last little bit of that is removed as it will hang a valve instantly if it gets to the VB.

By rotating assembly you mean the planetary sets... they are totalled so i threw them in the garbage; no need to inspect them. Yesterday morning, the only thing left of my tranny was the case, it was washed and dried to make sure that no needles were hiding. The front C1/C2 module was clean, no traces of anything in it as deep as the C1.

You should be fine on the C1. Rule of thumb for clearance on C1 pack is to leave enough room for the small Transgo bit to slide in there. Thats a good gauge. C1 is a "static" clutch pack only until the 5-4 shift as its on all the way up to 4th and therefore can use the large amount of clearance with out problems. Too much of course is not good, but .080-.100" is pretty decent.

The instructions call for .090 to .115 so at .101 I'm in the zone.

Not sure what to tell you about the snap ring, but there is two of them on the C1 backplate. How big a snap ring we talking?

Don't have access to it presently, I'll do that on monday.

Just to be safe, spend some time inspecting the valve body. .

The VB was oppened and inspected, everything moves smoothly in there and the was no traces of shavings or needles in it.

The only thing I didn't open was the pump since the only way in the pump is thru the filter I tought it was pretty safe. There was no traces of anything in the front of the tranny except from a few needles that slipped from one side to the other when I turned it over on the tranny support.

Thanks.

:D

I know I should never say this becase the second I do its gonna bite me.....










.....but I never checked any clearences :eek: ):h

Maxter, Rotating assembly refers to the C1/C2 Drum.

Ben, dont make me post pics of your weld job....LOL

Doesn't C4 have 2 snap rings also...it has a coiled one and an normal one?!

JESSE

Yup, sure does.

take a picture of it on monday and that should be able to tell where it goes. Theres only three snap rings in the stationary clutches and if you didn't take apart the rotating assembly, then it must go in the back. C3 has a big metal snap ring and C4 has a coiled snap ring that goes in before the big one.

JESSE

take a picture of it on monday and that should be able to tell where it goes. Theres only three snap rings in the stationary clutches and if you didn't take apart the rotating assembly, then it must go in the back. C3 has a big metal snap ring and C4 has a coiled snap ring that goes in before the big one.

JESSE

C3/C4 are in with their respective snap rings and coiled snap ring. It is smaller than those. Its size is in between the C2 backing plate and the C1 balance piston snap ring if I remember correctly. It was more an observation than a cry for help but it would eliminate the seach if I identify it early. I did remove one too many (C1 balance piston) in the rotating assembly in my haste of reaching the C1 and inspect for metal needle and other foreign stuff. I put it back in before closing the drum.

I'll post a picture on monday.

Blue snap ring is called Spir-o-lock. Or spiral lock.. not sure of the exact spelling but you pronounce it like that.

Maxter, Rotating assembly refers to the C1/C2 Drum.

Ben, dont make me post pics of your weld job....LOL

:funnypost


you never did send me those pics!!


I only do SMAW/stick!! it was my first time using one of them new-fangled MIG welder contraptions!):h you know my truck is your and Jim's favorite to work on.:D

:funnypost


you never did send me those pics!!


I only do SMAW/stick!! it was my first time using one of them new-fangled MIG welder contraptions!):h you know my truck is your and Jim's favorite to work on.:D

I got to work on it too, with a TORCH and a BIG HAMMER.........and Eric's welder.........:eek:

:help: .................I needed a drink after that adventure.......:joke:

-:t

-:t


That is ugly.

WOW!!! :eek: got any bubbalicious? ):h

:D :banghead:

hahaha man I was so tired of installing that BD I didnt care what the exhaust (last thing I did) looked like! Im surprised it even held together........

I hope it still doesnt look like that

Used tranny should be here during the night from Thuesday to Wednesday. Went by the garage this morning to get some picture of the unknown snap ring. I'm going there tommorrow PM to further prep the tranny so there's only the planetary module to exchange between the two allys left to do on wednesday.

Here a few pics, the first is the snap ring the rest are; the C3/C4 in the tranny case, C5 sitting pretty on top of the SC III disk and the ruined needle bearing that caused all of this.

I hope it still doesnt look like that

Not after I got done with it...........:D

It looks pretty now..........solid bead all tha way around..........;)

WOW! I always thought a mig welder was kinda like a shot gun, just aim in the general direction and pull the trigger. I was wrong......Or, he was using a #100 lens.:D

Do you have all the snap rings in the C3 and C4? the picture looks like the snap ring that holds the back cover onto the rotating assembly. I can measure one tomorrow and let you know what i come up with.

JESSE

Powerjoke: The ones you're talking about are in place. It probably comes from inside the drum, I just hopped to save time by knowing its origin in advance.

ok...i'll take apart a drum and let you know in a couple hours when i get out of school what i can come up with.

JESSE

OK, problem solved, It was the exact same size as the snape ring on the cover of the rotating assembly and as I tought it went deep inside over the C2 balance piston under the C2 clutches and plate. I had no use removing it in the first place since I was only going as deep as the C1 clutchpack. Took 5 mins to do...

I was in a big hurry after discovery that my gears were totalled by a needle bearing. I wanted to see how deep the damage went and I was disassembling like a madman and removed a few parts I shouldn't have.

The front is back toguether and the rear is awaiting the planetaries wich should arrive during the night. Sould be back under the truck tommorrow.

When I air tested my C1, I could hear a valve inside the pump going mad like back and forth rapidly. Also, with both C1 and C2 tests, some air was comming from differents parts of the drum. I assumed that this was normal. Is it?

A few pics of the new Suncoast filter holder installed and the tranny with the front installed awaiting the planetarries and the C5.

Thanks for your help.

I was just about to say that I discovered the C2 piston snap ring was damn near the same as the outside cover snap ring. I couldn't tell you about the air test, as I never perform them. Hell, i don't even check the clearances!!!

JESSE

I was just about to say that I discovered the C2 piston snap ring was damn near the same as the outside cover snap ring. I couldn't tell you about the air test, as I never perform them. Hell, i don't even check the clearances!!!

JESSE

Words of a true expert):h

Words of a true expert):h

does that make me an expert too??:D

does that make me an expert too??:D

You're just lucky, have a lot of guts, and know the right people.......):h

Well until I have a problem with a tranny, I'm not gonna change how i do it!!! And as of now, i'm on # 11 with no problems yet!!

JESSE

You're just lucky, have a lot of guts, and know the right people.......):h

Yeah right, we had to talk him down off the ledge that night. He had enough and he was ready to jump. Just a whole lot of luck ):h

holy crap man it looked like a bird took a big dump on your exhaust pipe.

Just an update...

I finished the tranny on wednesday. I had to do a transplant of the planets from another tranny since mine were trashed.

I had a few questions on thusday morning after a good night of sleep. When I arrived to the dealership, they had already put it back in (I paid them for the R&R but I did the upgrade myself). I remembered a small discrepency when reassembling and I phoned a few experts. One told me to dismantle it again just to make sure and the other told me I should be fine. Since it was already under the truck I opted to leave it there and listen to the second guy. The first one was probably extra carefull and that's ok too.

Before driving it, I didn't reset any taps.

First driving impressions: very snappy, it quickly learned how to shift. It's amasing how some crispy clutch packs will do to the shifting behavior. I loaded the bastard stack right away and gave it a go (not just one ):h). Since I have a 600mi drive on monday, I prefer it to fail here than on the road, in the middle of nowhere with a gooseneck trailer if it has to happend.

Most of the upshifts where good from the begining but the downshifts would blocks the wheels for a fraction of a second for the first few downshifts. Everything is perfect presently.

Needless to say that I'm very nervous and souspicious of every little noises coming from the truck even if they where probably there before.

Next weekend I hit the strip and may the NOS be with you... amen.


Time will tell if I should have been more suspicious!

A very big thanks to all that helped with their advices.

Your trans cooler is trash. Replace it because it will never clean up. You can try and flush the hell out of it but soon as hot atf hits it the crap starts dislodging. Plenty of used stock coolers out there for the asking.

Your trans cooler is trash. Replace it because it will never clean up. You can try and flush the hell out of it but soon as hot atf hits it the crap starts dislodging. Plenty of used stock coolers out there for the asking.

Sorry Mike, not sure I understand? Are you replying to my previous post?