http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=115662
Watch the video.
Tell me something I didn't know.
Should be required viewing for anyone buying a new truck. Mike Z :muahaha: :muahaha: :muahaha:

Cool!

Got to suck to be a Powderstroke owner:D

If you read how the test was done, the Furd was loaded about 1400lbs heavier because of its weight rating. They were all loaded to 81% of rated tow capacity. The Dodge was last and didn't have any extra weight added. Good test . Mike Z

:ro) :cool2: :ro) :muahaha:

Cool!Wonder what the result will be with the new Aiason 6 speed auto and 6.7 cummins for 07, also look at temp tested. Good thing it was 61* at time of testing. However I am a man when it comes to admitting defeat and it (DMAX) won over the Ram, although the first time I have read in all shootout comparisons for that to be the case. For those who know my threads and posts will consider me proved wrong, but Cummins is still most reliable period.

Sweet, Just sent the link to all my PowerChoke buddies....Thanks

Absolutely lovin' it !! Great test.

To bad for those other lesser trucks .. :Moon:

Would like to see same test done with mild programming each truck.

Good test- seemed to be fairly done as far as "car magazine" tests go.
One thing- They sure seemed to give the made in mexico dodge kudos for the interior didn't they?

Saratoga,
The size of the Mega cab is nice. If they would stick an eight foot bed on that truck I would be interested. There is enough room back there for the kids to nap while you tow.

Think the frame is lacking for the eight foot box.

Good test- seemed to be fairly done as far as "car magazine" tests go.
One thing- They sure seemed to give the made in mexico dodge kudos for the interior didn't they?They sure gave GM kudos for Jap engine

Not a Jap engine, but 07 dodge 6 speed trans is Jap.

Wonder what the result will be with the new Aiason 6 speed auto and 6.7 cummins for 07, also look at temp tested. Good thing it was 61* at time of testing. However I am a man when it comes to admitting defeat and it (DMAX) won over the Ram, although the first time I have read in all shootout comparisons for that to be the case. For those who know my threads and posts will consider me proved wrong, but Cummins is still most reliable period.
RVTRKN,
Dude you gotta know when to give it up. All you do is come over here and criticize the D'max. This is the first time you ever heard of the Dodge loosing? Read Diesel Power Mag and then it will be two. Read your Dodge forums on the 3rd generation cummins with injector problems and front ball joint, yea more reliable :muahaha: . You gotta grow up dude

Jap engine

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Woha boy-easy there.
Please enlighten me.

RVTRKN,
Dude you gotta know when to give it up. All you do is come over here and criticize the D'max. This is the first time you ever heard of the Dodge loosing? Read Diesel Power Mag and then it will be two. Read your Dodge forums on the 3rd generation cummins with injector problems and front ball joint, yea more reliable :muahaha: . You gotta grow up dudeI have every Diesel Power mag, so you should point out the artical and I can read it. Glow plugs, Overheating, Check engine lite every 200 miles and so on.

Wonder what the result will be with the new Aiason 6 speed auto and 6.7 cummins for 07, also look at temp tested. Good thing it was 61* at time of testing. However I am a man when it comes to admitting defeat and it (DMAX) won over the Ram, although the first time I have read in all shootout comparisons for that to be the case. For those who know my threads and posts will consider me proved wrong, but Cummins is still most reliable period.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=115662/pageId=98012

You are starting to sound like Franklinman1999. The Dodge came in last, smallest payload, least power, shortest bed, worst braking. To top it all off it was the lightest weight truck in the test. I towed my 10,000lb Jayco in 96 degree heat last month, through the Great Smokies and the Carolinas. The ECT never varied and didn't worry us for one second. I am so happy I bought this truck, my wife says I look like a fool driving around with a big grin on my face all the time. Mike Z

:muahaha: :muahaha: :muahaha:

:confused: :confused: :confused:
Woha boy-easy there.
Please enlighten me.Izuzu

I have every Diesel Power mag, so you should point out the artical and I can read it. Glow plugs, Overheating, Check engine lite every 200 miles and so on.

Okay lets start with May 2006 with diesel engine reliability.
Cummins B ranked number 10
Duramax diesel 6.6 ranked number 6

In case your confused #1 would be first then 2 and 3...
So read up bub because we are ranked more reliabale then the MIGHTY CUMMINS. You know its good to be the King!!!!

I was lucky enough to be used for a marketing test of all three trucks last year. My results from the test were the same as edmunds. empty and loaded with a 10k trailer, hills,city,highway,acceleration. I rated the chevy#1,Ford#2(trans and low power loaded acceleration), Dodge#3(trans,trans,trans) I loved all three for different reasons. I really do not think any of them are bad trucks, despite whatever each of their shortcomings are.

Izuzu
Again,
:confused: :confused: :confused:
Isuzu engineering doesn't make it Japanese, espicially since it's manufactured in... come on, don't be shy you know this one... Ohio.

BTW, everyone has their preferences, even likes and dislikes about their own vehicles and their choice to own what they do. Why would you come onto a predominantly GM forum talking smack and then get pi$$ed because of the responses to your :stirthepo ?

Okay lets start with May 2006 with diesel engine reliability.
Cummins B ranked number 10
Duramax diesel 6.6 ranked number 6

In case your confused #1 would be first then 2 and 3...
So read up bub because we are ranked more reliabale then the MIGHTY CUMMINS. You know its good to be the King!!!!Look at bottom of artical, it state,s no particular order. I read the shootout artical show me the quote that the DMAX out pulled the Ram. If you look at the first page of the greatest Diesel artical, you will see Cummins got the front page. 1 thru 10 10 being best.

Look at bottom of artical, it state,s no particular order. I read the shootout artical show me the quote that the DMAX out pulled the Ram. If you look at the first page of the greatest Diesel artical, you will see Cummins got the front page. 1 thru 10 10 being best.


It's like talking to a wall or something...

It's like talking to a wall or something...

or my 16 year old son :blahblah: :blahblah:

or my 16 year old son :blahblah: :blahblah:

:funnypost Exactly, We should name him Brian because he's always cry'n:muahaha: :muahaha: :muahaha: :muahaha:

or my 16 year old son :blahblah: :blahblah:
:funnypost
Slow day here at work today, at least this came along to perk things up!

Boys, sorry I can't play any longer. I'm off to the lake towing my 10,000lb Jayco in 98 degree KC weather. I hope the pool isn't too hot when I get there. Later, Mike Z
:ro) :ro) :ro)

:funnypost Exactly, We should name him Brian because he's always cry'n:muahaha: :muahaha: :muahaha: :muahaha:Why can't you just respond to the subject of Cummins is better than DMAX? If you look at my sig, you will see 6 spd man trans which in the test they used the auto. In all my towing I have never been dissapointed in power towing up steep grades in whatever temp it is outside

lol i know i bought the best money can buy you can have more money but you cant get a better truck go GMC

Specs compiled from: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=115662/pageId=98028

There are some discrepancies between the data in the product sections, and their charts, which are at the bottom of the page at the link above. In particular, I don't think any of these trucks stop from 30mph in 8.4 feet (maybe 38.4?).

Curb Weight (lbs.):
Silverado 3500: 6,552
F-350 Super Duty: 7,550
Ram 3500 Mega Cab: 7,318

Edmunds observed fuel economy (mpg):
Silverado 3500: 14.1
F-350 Super Duty: 12.4
Ram 3500 Mega Cab: 13.1

Dang I reckon. 1,000lbs difference is huge. BTW my 05 dually weighs in right around 8200lbs with a full tank of fuel. I think the article was pretty fair even if the Ford didn't win. The dmax has the hp and torque advantage so I'd doubt anyone would dispute the fact that it should pull the load faster. As far as the noise comment on the 6.0 I notice mine will get a deeper growl going up hills. I wonder if that's what they are talking about. :confused:

The guys over on the TDR did not appreciate the test either...they are crying it was unfare:bawl: :bawl: :bawl: .

http://www.turbodieselregister.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1526253#post1526253

Dang I reckon. 1,000lbs difference is huge.
I just noticed this. Maybe there's "only" 760 lbs. difference. But that's always been one of GM's advantages: lighter weight. They're also slightly smaller overall for the same size bed.
(BTW, the Dodge dually is wider than 80". There seems to be a lot of mistakes in the specs in this article.)

Why can't you just respond to the subject of Cummins is better than DMAX? If you look at my sig, you will see 6 spd man trans which in the test they used the auto. In all my towing I have never been dissapointed in power towing up steep grades in whatever temp it is outside
I don't believe Cummins is better. Since 3rd generation Cummins engines use the Bosch high pressure injector set up which is very similar to the Duramax fuel system, both engines are on a level playing field. You don't see head or block problems with the D'max, no broken rods nothing but some injector problems. Since 04 and up they have been even less problems with injectors. Plenty of Dmax's have gone to 400,000 plus miles what more do you want. Why do you feel it is necessary for someone to tell you the Cummins is better?? The D'max has been out for only 6yrs and has under gone several changes all making it better and easier to work on. Cummins has been around alot longer and has alot more time under their belt to correct for it's short commings like the 53 block. Some lly's had the overheating problem but that was few and far between, just like some of the Cummins had pistons in the wrong way, both are subject to problems, and I not going to tell you something I don't believe is true.

Awesome.

Anyone have sales numbers for the big 3 diesel trucks handy from the last year?

I don't believe Cummins is better. Since 3rd generation Cummins engines use the Bosch high pressure injector set up which is very similar to the Duramax fuel system, both engines are on a level playing field. You don't see head or block problems with the D'max, no broken rods nothing but some injector problems. Since 04 and up they have been even less problems with injectors. Plenty of Dmax's have gone to 400,000 plus miles what more do you want. Why do you feel it is necessary for someone to tell you the Cummins is better?? The D'max has been out for only 6yrs and has under gone several changes all making it better and easier to work on. Cummins has been around alot longer and has alot more time under their belt to correct for it's short commings like the 53 block. Some lly's had the overheating problem but that was few and far between, just like some of the Cummins had pistons in the wrong way, both are subject to problems, and I not going to tell you something I don't believe is true.Well at least now we are having an intelligent conversation. The reason the common rail is used, is because of EPA otherwise we would still have the 12 valve Cummins and is the reason for the new 6.7 Cummins. The common rail system was 2nd and 3rd gen Dodges from 98.5 model years and yes there were failures due to early enginering from basically new tech. Cummins has had mistakes and were fixed. The DMAX has had a lot of problems as well but the basic design is flawed and is the reason for allways having issues. The Cummins "B" engine was originaly designed for 60,000 lbs and it shows in the durability and sure grunt of this engine when pulling well beyond the Ram specs.

I wonder what would happen if they doubled the weight of the test drive and then climbed baker grade or the grade north out of Bishop on 395 with 115* heat. My temp gage has never been above 195 in extreme heat and I have never heard the clutch fan towing my 5ver on many different grades in the west coast and north west, infact I've never heard my clutch fan, I guess I better go check to see if its there

RVTRKN,
Elaborate on how the basic design is flawed.

RVTRKN,
Elaborate on how the basic design is flawed.Aluminum Heads, V8, Glow Plug operated, Low compression by design, Jap design, Too small of internal parts (not of heavy duty design) and rushed to market.

Specs compiled from: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=115662/pageId=98028

There are some discrepancies between the data in the product sections, and their charts, which are at the bottom of the page at the link above. In particular, I don't think any of these trucks stop from 30mph in 8.4 feet (maybe 38.4?).

Curb Weight (lbs.):
Silverado 3500: 6,552
F-350 Super Duty: 7,550
Ram 3500 Mega Cab: 7,318

Edmunds observed fuel economy (mpg):
Silverado 3500: 14.1
F-350 Super Duty: 12.4
Ram 3500 Mega Cab: 13.1well,the silverado seems light,mine weighs 7100 unloaded?just an observation!"not a dually":confused:

Aluminum Heads, V8, Glow Plug operated, Low compression by design, Jap design, Too small of internal parts (not of heavy duty design) and rushed to market.

I honestly hope you don't believe what you just posted. Come on you're joking right, you can't possibly be that ignorant and still be able to use a computer, can you???

I honestly hope you don't believe what you just posted. Come on you're joking right, you can't possibly be that ignorant and still be able to use a computer, can you???And I thought we would keep this intelligent

I also thought the duramax was 18-1 commpression......:confused:and on edit, the truck at work is a ford f-350 and takes alot longer to start,than the chevy,due to the glow plugs warming up?

And I thought we would keep this intelligent

Well, you blew the intelligent part. Call the engine what you will but Isuzu is I believe, the largest diesel engine builder in the world. They are not new to the diesel engine business. Also these engines are now built in the USA, more than you can say for a Doge.

LOL what a joke
The Aluminum Heads have yet to fail even when burying an 1800 pyro
Last I checked most diesel have Glow Plugs
Low compression= more fuel and air= more power
1/2 Jap design and at least it is made in be*rner land
Too small of internal parts (not of heavy duty design) as if that meant sh*t despite what your wife tells you size doesn't matter
Rushed to market what do you work on GMs design team?

I fail to see why ford and dodge guys even bother posting on this board. I guess it is just in their nature that they like to troll. I for one have no desire to go to a dodge or a ford forum and bag on their trucks.

Aluminum Heads, V8, Glow Plug operated, Low compression by design, Jap design, Too small of internal parts (not of heavy duty design) and rushed to market.

How does the design limit the compression?
How do the aluminum heads hurt it?
Whats better, Jap design or German owned?
Where have the small internal parts hurt it?
You should also explain why the moving parts of the I design need to be larger for the similar CID vs a V motor.

There seems to be a lot of mistakes in the specs in this article.)

they also said in the interior stuff "accident assistance notifying: not availible"

.....OnStar:D

:exactly: ford,dodge and toyota do not offer onstar?why?;)

the truck at work is a ford f-350 and takes alot longer to start,than the chevy,due to the glow plugs warming up?

International T444e's and VT365's (7.3 and 6.0 stroker, respectively:) ) take a lot of cranking especailly in the cold because of the HEUI injection system. It relies on very high pressure oil to fire the injectors/compound fuel pressure. When you crank a powerstroke for a long time, you have to turn the HPOP (high press oil pump) for an extra second or two in order for it to build the oil pressure up to be able to fire the injectors. Thats also why Powerstrokes are ugly in the cold. The oil is thick and its hard to build pressure with it.

Lets not let this thread get out of hand. If it turns into a name calling and brand fighting thread like it has before, I wont hesitate to make it dissapear...

fords suck-shut It down-):h

Have to keep an eye on this one. Seems to be going downhill..

down hill towards the fords....he he

where is the ford guys now?

After driving a LLY 5 spd allison for 6 mo., my opinion is of the under powered DMAX despite what paper says is poor and all the moderaters can threaten my posts, but it is a poor design. You can believe what you want and spend 50,000 on a stock hot rod but when it comes to towing heavy My 50,000 will be cummins.

the duramax is a good motor but for toughness and being able to handle abuse the cummins is a better motor in my opinion, besides the v-8 diesels are the only diesels that do have glow plugs. by the way i was born and raised chevy until the diesels couldnt tow what i needed done.

I don't understand your goal in posting messages dogging the duramax. Everyone has thier own OPINION about what is best and that's great. It's my OPINION that the Duramax is the best because it is the most tunable and most all of us on this forum are here because we like tricking out our trucks. I think the cummins is a great motor, but I wouldn't buy one because I don't think that dodge can build a truck to go around the motor. They've had a long time to figure out how to make an auto to mate the the cummins, but have yet to make one worth a darn. For me, it's all Duramax/Allison.

v-8 diesels are the only diesels that do have glow plugs


That is funny you should tell that to Cat.

where is the ford guys now?

I think I was the only Ford guy to post and I don't recall saying anything negative. I like my Ford so maybe you all consider that a negative post! :lol:

onstar is owned by gm , mercedes uses it ,, i think they should weigh the chevy again , mine weighs 8200lbs, my 02 3500 cc d/a 2x4 weighed 7400lbs


and , can't we all just get along??????????????

I think you meant dodge guys Nelson, superf350 made a good post...

well,the silverado seems light,mine weighs 7100 unloaded? just an observation! "not a dually"
Did you see the chart in post #34 that shows how much heavier all three trucks were than their published curb weights? The Chevy is still much lighter than the other two, though.

The common rail system was 2nd and 3rd gen Dodges from 98.5 model years and yes there were failures due to early enginering from basically new tech.

98.5-2002 Cummins used a standard VP44 electronically controlled injection pump. Duramax started using common rail in 2001, Cummins started using it in 2003 :)

I wont split hairs, but as far as compression, LB7/LLY Dmax's run 17.8:1 compression. Cummins ISB is 17.2:1. ;)

onstar is owned by gm , mercedes uses it ,,

Not true. Mercedes uses there own, tele-aid. The difference between the 2, onstar works.;)

I fail to see why ford and dodge guys even bother posting on this board. I guess it is just in their nature that they like to troll. I for one have no desire to go to a dodge or a ford forum and bag on their trucks.


Sorry guys!
He got out under the under the fence. Come on RVTRKN, come back with me to our side of the fence ( http://www.dieseltruckresource.com ) before it's too late.

98.5-2002 Cummins used a standard VP44 electronically controlled injection pump. Duramax started using common rail in 2001, Cummins started using it in 2003 :)

I wont split hairs, but as far as compression, LB7/LLY Dmax's run 17.8:1 compression. Cummins ISB is 17.2:1. ;)Thats correct but because of aluminum heads DMAX LBZ lowered compression to 16.8:1 and added head bolts because Isuzu got it wrong the first time maybe. Maybe they were trying to find the balance to over heating issues? It still was renginered to have lower compression as I noted in prior posts.

...because of aluminum heads DMAX LBZ lowered compression to 16.8:1 and added head bolts because Isuzu got it wrong the first time maybe.
GM lowered the DMax compression ratio as a part of what it needed to do to meet the forthcoming emissions standards that drastically reduce the allowable NOx limit.

The pre-2006 LLY had a compression ratio of 17.5:1, not 17.8, ref.:
http://media.gm.com/division/2005_prodinfo/powertrain/index.html

Granted, all three diesels (Duramax, Powerstroke & Cummins) have relatively low compression ratios for a diesel. Even the Mercedes Sprinter engine only has an 18:1 CR.

I think the older GM diesels had much higher CRs, but also couldn't run as much boost either. But all else being equal, higher CR equals higher thermodynamic efficiency. Don't the older diesel trucks get better fuel economy, even though their fuel injection systems are less sophisticated than today's diesels?

I think you meant dodge guys Nelson, superf350 made a good post...your right,my bad,sorry super....;)

Thats correct but because of aluminum heads DMAX LBZ lowered compression to 16.8:1 and added head bolts because Isuzu got it wrong the first time maybe. Maybe they were trying to find the balance to over heating issues? It still was renginered to have lower compression as I noted in prior posts.

There is nothing wrong with aluminum heads on the Dmax. They are not a problem. You cannot pin the LLY overheat problem on the heads, as they are pretty much the same as the LB7's, cept for the injector access. LB7's don't have an O/H problem. The O/H problem on the LLY's is in the cooling system. It was adequate for the LB7, but not the LLY, and GM didn't upgrade that area. oops....
Besides, there are now fixes out there for that problem.

Another member said it best...the lower compression is there so more air/fuel can be stuffed into the engine, so more power can be generated. It also has to do with the new emissions regs, too.

Added headbolts? Cripes man, they have 5 per cylinder right now! You don't hear of Dmax's needing studs until +600-HP apps. Have you ever even SEEN a Dmax head? The only area that wasn't engineered for upgrading is the valves. They are at the edges of the cylinder, so installing larger valves neccesitates a larger piston bore. But then, 99% of the people out there won't need larger valves, along with ported/polished heads..thats a racing app.

I have personally seen Dmax's in stock trim go over 500HP with a tuner and exhaust. If this engine was as bad as you say, it would have blown long before that HP number was reached. Many Dmax's are over 200,000 miles already, and running just fine, too....so the longevity of the engine is proven, both in endurance and performance. And we're just getting started.


You obviously know absolutely nothing about the Duramax, and instead of wanting to learn more, are just throwing out the same old, tired, false crud that other make's forums dwell on. You are just here to insult and stir-the-pot.

I thought Place policy on trolling was a warning to the troll to cease the pot-stirring, and if that didn't work, then to ban the offender.

:rant: over.

There is nothing wrong with aluminum heads on the Dmax. They are not a problem. You cannot pin the LLY overheat problem on the heads, as they are pretty much the same as the LB7's, cept for the injector access. LB7's don't have an O/H problem. The O/H problem on the LLY's is in the cooling system. It was adequate for the LB7, but not the LLY, and GM didn't upgrade that area. oops....
Besides, there are now fixes out there for that problem.

Another member said it best...the lower compression is there so more air/fuel can be stuffed into the engine, so more power can be generated. It also has to do with the new emissions regs, too.

Added headbolts? Cripes man, they have 5 per cylinder right now! You don't hear of Dmax's needing studs until +600-HP apps. Have you ever even SEEN a Dmax head? The only area that wasn't engineered for upgrading is the valves. They are at the edges of the cylinder, so installing larger valves neccesitates a larger piston bore. But then, 99% of the people out there won't need larger valves, along with ported/polished heads..thats a racing app.

I have personally seen Dmax's in stock trim go over 500HP with a tuner and exhaust. If this engine was as bad as you say, it would have blown long before that HP number was reached. Many Dmax's are over 200,000 miles already, and running just fine, too....so the longevity of the engine is proven, both in endurance and performance. And we're just getting started.


You obviously know absolutely nothing about the Duramax, and instead of wanting to learn more, are just throwing out the same old, tired, false crud that other make's forums dwell on. You are just here to insult and stir-the-pot.

I thought Place policy on trolling was a warning to the troll to cease the pot-stirring, and if that didn't work, then to ban the offender.

:rant: over.If you want to hear that DMAX is great fine, as far as trolling is concerned, any time some one has constructive debates on this site we get acussed of trolling. I have gotten notices that I am trolling so if you want to preach to the choir go ahead and preach on this site that must be owned by GM and don't want to debate.

Dude, you are delusional.

We debate problems with the Dmax all the time. But there are no earth-shattering problems with the engine like you keep claiming.

I'm sure you would take offense over at your home site if I went over there and started bad-mouthing the Cummins without first knowing what the heck I was talking about. Do some research first before you throw out claims of "problems" that just aren't there.

Having competition is what drives this (any every) industry.

Yeah, we GM guys might have the best thing going THIS YEAR, until Ford or Dodge come up with something better for the meanwhile. (More likely to come from the blue oval than dodge, sorry dodge guys)

Dozerboy you need to look again at your cats most the ones i've operated including big trucks may have a heat grid not glow plugs big difference between the two

Dude, you are delusional.

We debate problems with the Dmax all the time. But there are no earth-shattering problems with the engine like you keep claiming.

I'm sure you would take offense over at your home site if I went over there and started bad-mouthing the Cummins without first knowing what the heck I was talking about. Do some research first before you throw out claims of "problems" that just aren't there.I drove a LLY for 6 mo. and I did research because of poor MPG that these engines have, you are more than welcome to join TDR and debate.

Just seen the video , without a doubt:rolleyes:

Just seen the video , without a doubt:rolleyes:I don't think so but at least were back on subject :)

Dude,RVTRKN your a fool. I had a 95 12 valve, we have a 98 12 valve, and an 03 Dudge Cummins. Our 02 Dmax out runs all 3 of the Dodges. My 95 use to get hot all the time running the hills, our 03 gets hot if you push it hard. Thats here in AZ where it can get to 115 degrees outside. The Dmax has never been over 210 degrees. The Cummins is good, the Dmax is good. I like the DMAX better because of the way it tows. Did you even watch the video? The dodge was the lighteset, and still was out performened by the piece of crap poor design aluminum head DURAMAX!!!!! Ive had both, and the DMAX wins!!!

because of aluminum heads DMAX LBZ lowered compression to 16.8:1 and added head bolts because Isuzu got it wrong the first time maybe.

As Elvis_Knows said, they lowered CR for particulate and NoX emmissions, thats the only reason. Ive seen both LLY and LBZ Duramax's torn down. They have the same amount of head bolts. There no more head bolts around each cylinder of a Duramax than there are of a Cummins. Im not sure where you are getting your information. You are thinking of a Ford 6.0....they have 4 bolts per cylinder.

You have a PM, I suggest you respond to it.

Arguing with RVTRKN is like arguing with a Democrat, dont know anything about anything, just make stuff up!!!

Some Dodge trucks must emit fumes that cause their owners to become delusional!):h

Drips Oil Dumps Gas Everywhere
Daddy's Old Damned Geriatric Express

Arguing with RVTRKN is like arguing with a Democrat, dont know anything about anything, just make stuff up!!!

Really? I know just enough to be dangerous...



.....then Eric or Scott has to come bail me out.

Arguing with RVTRKN is like arguing with a Democrat, dont know anything about anything, just make stuff up!!!:funnypost :exactly: ):h

IM a democrat i dont no every thing but my wife does lol

Drips Oil Dumps Gas Everywhere
Daddy's Old Damned Geriatric Express

oh and we can't forget MOPAR
Move Over Pinto Approaching Rapidly

Drips Oil Dumps Gas Everywhere
Daddy's Old Damned Geriatric Express

:exactly: :funnypost

oh and we can't forget MOPAR
Move Over Pinto Approaching Rapidly

:exactly: :funnypost

I don't think so but at least were back on subject :)
Yep back on subject which your dead wrong:rolleyes:

How does lower compression lead to better emissions? Lower compression is usually related to larger turbos. It may have lower compression ration but the operating cylinder pressure is brought right back by volumetric efficiency thru the turbo. I think in the drivetrain dept. GM has pretty well shut down the competition for awhile. The other two should take note, do your friggin home work, test the daylights out it before you bring it to market and know what your market is. Ford is paying hard for not getting the 6.0 right and will for a long time unless they hit a home run on the 6.4. The Duramax by the way was in test trucks many years before it ever showed up in production. The State of Maine Marine Patrol had one that had a locked hood on it that cranked way back in the mid to late 90's, I'm assuming it was the Duramax because it was faster than the gas trucks at the time.

first Duramax prototype started up sometime in mid-late 1997 IIRC...



the rest...is history ):h

Why the argument over the compression ratio? Why would you even care? The CR Dodge chooses works for that engine, and the CR that the Duramax uses is fine for it. These engines just flat work, regardless of thier respective CR's!

I like having the truck with the most HP from the dealer floor, I couldn't give a rats *** about aftermarket power-ups. Why? Because it comes with a warranty!

on a note ...if you bought a diesel for hp,...well nuff said...I thought diesels were ment to have torque not hp...my friend bought the ford because of the 15 more hp than the d-max,and I told him about the torque rating...and he said "who cares"..so...jmo-

That shootout in Diesel Power Magazine was pretty good, and the results were no surprise. One friend got his '04 Dodge/Cummins a couple months before I got the '04.5 Duramax. He drove mine and said it was faster and rode better. Another friend has an '03 Ford 7.3, straightpiped with 80hp chip, a clanky awful thing. Again, the stock LLY was faster and there's no comparison in ride quality. I let both guys drive my truck after installing the Edge. The setting was on 3 and it put a huge smile on their faces. The Ford guy was with me and we did a stopwatch timed 0-60 right at 6 seconds flat.....he was impressed. Both those guys are friends, we ride in each other's trucks, and nobody says anything about anything because it doesn't matter. We own our trucks because we like them. But these Ford and Dodge guys who come on here and run their mouth....they do it because they're just fool moron jerkoffs.

My rushed to market, failure prone, bad fuel milaged LLY 5 speed seems to be an odd ball then because it was getting my over 20 mpg before lift, 17 after without a problem at all... Oh well, better trade it in and get a new one that has all the problems called out earlier...

Aluminum Heads, V8, Glow Plug operated, Low compression by design, Jap design, Too small of internal parts (not of heavy duty design) and rushed to market.
I am no expert and I certainly don't want to pick a fight but I have a few comments regarding your comments;

#1) Aluminum Heads, you surely are aware of the 5.0L Cobra with 165cc Aluminum AFR heads, Dodge Hemi with cross flow aluminum heads and Lingenfelter CNC ported and polished Dodge Viper aluminum cylinder heads? Not to mention all the other high performance engines that currently employ aluminum heads. They are lighter, easier to machine and dissipate heat more quickly than cast Iron.

#2) V8, you gotta be joking to complain about a V8 because it’ a V8. Although, I can say a straight six is it is easier to work on and fits in a smaller hole.

#3) Glow Plug Operated, well, you should really say glow plug start assist, rather than operated. While this does employ more parts that can eventually fail, it also improves cold starting and reduces initial start up emissions. Yep, start up emissions is part of the new 2007 emission regulations.

#4) Low compression by design, I'll take low compression higher HP & torque over high compression and lower HP and torque any day. Really, why subject the moving parts of any engine to substantially higher compression ratios without significant or substantial performance returns. We already talked about the advantage of glow plugs, so don't use that excuse.

#5) Jap design, Sir, the Japanese have been quietly engineering and building some of the most reliable and efficient engines in the world for a long time now. Toyota, Honda and Isuzu come to mind. Some people discount this long time proven successes as a Jap design. Tell me you’re not some kind of hill billy ignorant racist? If you are, I guess you you can tell me that too.

#6) Too small of internal parts (not of heavy duty design) and rushed to market. Let's do the math. Dodge CTD 610FT LBS TRQ divided by six cylinders = 101.66 FT LBS per piston. Chevy DM 650 FT LB TRQ divided by eight = 81.25 FT LBS per piston. It stands to reason that the CTD would require parts to be bigger and heavier than the DM in order to manage the power per piston factor. However, this extra individual reciprocating weight in addition to the fact that a non-V design is used to convert the combustive energy to the crankshaft with fewer pistons, results in power being delivered less smoothly and more noisily than the DM power plant. Drive one, you will notice the difference.

I am glad you are happy with your CTD truck. It is no doubt the right truck for you and will provide you will years of great service. Conversely, I am very pleased with my Chevy DM as are other members of this forum.

The real difference between you and I, is that I do not spend my time on the Dodge truck forum discounting the quality of Dodge or Cummins products as you have done so with Chevy and Duramax. Indeed, you can spend your time anyway you wish. It is my suggestion for you consider your personal return for your personal effort. Is it really worth it?
:exactly:

Wonder what the result will be with the new Aiason 6 speed auto and 6.7 cummins for 07, also look at temp tested. Good thing it was 61* at time of testing. However I am a man when it comes to admitting defeat and it (DMAX) won over the Ram, although the first time I have read in all shootout comparisons for that to be the case. For those who know my threads and posts will consider me proved wrong, but Cummins is still most reliable period.

As an owner of my first and last Dodge I would like to comment on your post. I am going back to GM once and for all.

The new Dodge 6.7 will not match up with the new Duramax. The 6.7 is being delayed due to problems breaking connecting rods. This is with the power set at 610 lbs torque. The new Duramax will have 800 lbs torque and the 2000 series Ally tranny.

Maint costs. Dodge will cost you $175 very 15,000 miles in axle oil changes alone. The GM axles are much better and do not ever need oil changes, unless you take them under water.

No matter what any one says, Allison trannies are the best reputation.

Dodge transmissions will always have the worst reputation, no matter what they do. Dodge could use a Spicer transmssion out of a log skidder rated for 5000 lb torque and it not be any good when they put a Dodge tag on it.

As far as Cummins being the most reliable... How come you see so many Dodges with 500,000 + miles for sale? They are worn out and breaking down and the person wants to get rid of his problems. Mid 90's GMC's with Duramax are never seen up for sale, because the owner whats to keep the truck for another millon miles because it is still running good.

BTW - Look at what is moving freight accross the nation's highway in 90% of the OTR trucks. GM diesels (mostly Duramax's) and Allison transmissions.

I am no expert and I certainly don't want to pick a fight but I have a few comments regarding your comments;

#1) Aluminum Heads, you surely are aware of the 5.0L Cobra with 165cc Aluminum AFR heads, Dodge Hemi with cross flow aluminum heads and Lingenfelter CNC ported and polished Dodge Viper aluminum cylinder heads? Not to mention all the other high performance engines that currently employ aluminum heads. They are lighter, easier to machine and dissipate heat more quickly than cast Iron.

#2) V8, you gotta be joking to complain about a V8 because it’ a V8. Although, I can say a straight six is it is easier to work on and fits in a smaller hole.

#3) Glow Plug Operated, well, you should really say glow plug start assist, rather than operated. While this does employ more parts that can eventually fail, it also improves cold starting and reduces initial start up emissions. Yep, start up emissions is part of the new 2007 emission regulations.

#4) Low compression by design, I'll take low compression higher HP & torque over high compression and lower HP and torque any day. Really, why subject the moving parts of any engine to substantially higher compression ratios without significant or substantial performance returns. We already talked about the advantage of glow plugs, so don't use that excuse.

#5) Jap design, Sir, the Japanese have been quietly engineering and building some of the most reliable and efficient engines in the world for a long time now. Toyota, Honda and Isuzu come to mind. Some people discount this long time proven successes as a Jap design. Tell me you’re not some kind of hill billy ignorant racist? If you are, I guess you you can tell me that too.

#6) Too small of internal parts (not of heavy duty design) and rushed to market. Let's do the math. Dodge CTD 610FT LBS TRQ divided by six cylinders = 101.66 FT LBS per piston. Chevy DM 650 FT LB TRQ divided by eight = 81.25 FT LBS per piston. It stands to reason that the CTD would require parts to be bigger and heavier than the DM in order to manage the power per piston factor. However, this extra individual reciprocating weight in addition to the fact that a non-V design is used to convert the combustive to the crankshaft with fewer pistons, results in power being delivered less smoothly and more noisily than the DM power plant. Drive one, you will notice the difference.

I am glad you are happy with your CTD truck. It is no doubt the right truck for you and will provide you will years of great service. Conversely, I am very pleased with my Chevy DM as are other members of this forum.

The real difference between you and I, is that I do not spend my time on the Dodge truck forum discounting the quality of Dodge or Cummins products as you have done so with Chevy and Duramax. Indeed, you can spend your time anyway you wish. It is my suggestion for you consider your personal return for your personal effort. Is it really worth it?
:exactly:


Well put.

I will have a new GM truck / SUV by the end of the month. I had an awesome GMC2500 HD with a minor problem and my traded it for a Dodge. It was ok at first, I can see major transmission and axle problems cropping up within the next 1200 - 1500 miles.

Based on my financial postion, I may have to go back a couple of model years and perhaps switch to a gas motor instead of a Cummins, I will be better with a GM than my current Dodge.

Thanks for your time.

Support GM

BTW - Look at what is moving freight accross the nation's highway in 90% of the OTR trucks. GM diesels (mostly Duramax's) and Allison transmissions.
Hmmm....I am not a OTR trucker but I have been to a truck assembly plant for a tour and know some friends who work for Paccar ( Kenworth, Peterbuilt ) in Chillicothe, OH. This was a few years ago but I didn't see any Duramax's on the line being put into there trucks. I do remember seeing alot of yellow engines ;) being put into those trucks though.

Thanks,

Scott

http://www.kenworth.com/2100_vir_t2000.asp

How does lower compression lead to better emissions?
It lowers peak combustion pressure & temperature, which lowers the production of Oxides of Nitrogen, the limit of which gets a lot lower in 2007. For a more exact explanation, consult your nearest physicist.

It may have lower compression ratio but the operating cylinder pressure is brought right back by volumetric efficiency thru the turbo.
True under conditions of higher power output (and high boost). But under cruise conditions (light load), there may be little or no boost.

Thus, to some extent light load fuel economy was traded off in order to gain peak power & torque. Of course, they also gained back some of the fuel economy with other changes, like more sophisticated fuel injection systems and taller gearing (6-speed Allison) to lower the rpms.

:ro)

and i thought the ford guys where hard headed. i personally think all three make good trucks. so who cares if brand c is faster than f or d? brand f and d will get to the top of the hill too just 5 minutes later.

They all do make good trucks. Just the Chevys are great! :)

Dmax pulls best and gets the best MPG . . . its gotta sting!

Elvis is on it !! Thanks for the info...

So is everyone finally in agreement, that the LBZ is an A$$kicker??? :ro)

So is everyone finally in agreement, that the LBZ is an A$$kicker??? :ro)

All three diesels can make big power, just plug in a box/programmer. Too bad you can't plug in a programmer and get rid of that damn IFS.-:t

I have a tough time paying $40K+ for a 4wd El Camino.:lol:

Wow, the German owned, Mexican built, Dodge really came out the loser huh?):h Even with it's huge weight advantage with none of the concrete ballast in the bed like the other two had it still got smoked in acceleration and mileage.

I've never driven or owned a Dodge, but after seeing the test I'm convinced. It must really suck to own a 2006 Dodge after watching that. I would bet money if Toyota had a truck in the test, Dodge would still be last. ):h Mike Z

brand f and d will get to the top of the hill too just 5 minutes later.

and brand f will be down 2 gallons of coolant):h

Drips Oil Dumps Gas Everywhere
Daddy's Old Damned Geriatric Express
M O P A R
Move Over People Are Racing ):h
Wow... These Dodge guys are really gettin bent out of shape. :lol:

How is a lower compress ratio bad? That means you can force more air into the engine via turbo. When will the next dmax have 800lbs of tq? 2007?

How is a lower compress ratio bad? That means you can force more air into the engine via turbo. When will the next dmax have 800lbs of tq? 2007?

he was being 110% sarcastic.;)

:funnypost haha yea sarcastic

Itll be before to long

Mr. RVTRKN has already been through the ringer on the aluminum head issue on another thread. In that installment of aluminum is bad, according to him, there was many - many documented cases of head warpage and failure most prevalent on the trucks that were used for towing and also for get this...... towing up grades. If you towed up a hill you would most certainly warp a cylinder head and be on the side of the highway. Evidently he is a materials expert and fully comprehends the reaction of dissimilar metals under heating and stress. Now its because of the aluminum heads and 2nd rate design that izuzu has lowered the compression ratio because this now is apparently the findings of the root cause analysis that was performed on the multitude of cylinder head failures that he has such intimate knowledge of. I am now waiting for the latest revelation that GM has modified the Allison transmission to accept the 6th gear in order to reduce the cruising RPM as to not cause the Aluminum heads to warp. This is like me saying that because my friends '03 305/555 cummins dropped a valve seat and the engine now requireds an inframe on cylinder #5 at 65,000 miles that all cummins have serious cylinder head issues (true story). I said it in the last thread that I encountered this well informed individual. I have no issue with DC guys posting or pointing out weakness in the DMAX GM design because lord knows there are enough of them but get your facts straight. He/She has been provided with a generally accurate account of the incidence of cylinder head related failures that are a direct result of dissimilar metals. If there was a search done on this forum for this type of failure, and a great number came up, I would be greately surprised. As far as troll goes........ if the shoe fits!!

Mr. RVTRKN has already been through the ringer on the aluminum head issue on another thread. In that installment of aluminum is bad, according to him, there was many - many documented cases of head warpage and failure most prevalent on the trucks that were used for towing and also for get this...... towing up grades. If you towed up a hill you would most certainly warp a cylinder head and be on the side of the highway. Evidently he is a materials expert and fully comprehends the reaction of dissimilar metals under heating and stress. Now its because of the aluminum heads and 2nd rate design that izuzu has lowered the compression ratio because this now is apparently the findings of the root cause analysis that was performed on the multitude of cylinder head failures that he has such intimate knowledge of. I am now waiting for the latest revelation that GM has modified the Allison transmission to accept the 6th gear in order to reduce the cruising RPM as to not cause the Aluminum heads to warp. This is like me saying that because my friends '03 305/555 cummins dropped a valve seat and the engine now requireds an inframe on cylinder #5 at 65,000 miles that all cummins have serious cylinder head issues (true story). I said it in the last thread that I encountered this well informed individual. I have no issue with DC guys posting or pointing out weakness in the DMAX GM design because lord knows there are enough of them but get your facts straight. He/She has been provided with a generally accurate account of the incidence of cylinder head related failures that are a direct result of dissimilar metals. If there was a search done on this forum for this type of failure, and a great number came up, I would be greately surprised. As far as troll goes........ if the shoe fits!!

I agree with you...but all three have their fair share of "loyal idiots". :D

You could have a Powerstroke with sandwiched aluminum and cast iron heads with compeletly different coefficients of expansion............well we all know how well the head gasket's have performed with the Fords.......

last i checked all the new trucks seem to be making a move to IFS. but really how hard is it to torch all the **** out and drop a solid axle under it? my vote is on a chevy... :grd:
clay

last i checked all* the new trucks seem to be making a move to IFS...
clay

:confused: *All = 1/3

ive said this before and im going to say it again,, chevy has used aluminum cyl heads since the mid to late 1960's on street and can-am cars making 750-1000hp,, i have personaly driven offshore race boats with 1200-1400hp chevy engines and have yet to see one melt or warp due to them being aluminum,,also don't top fuel dragsters and funny cars use aluminum heads and blocks and don't they make 6000 to 7000 hp,,porsche and ferrari have used aluminum engines for 50 years too..

If you read how the test was done, the Furd was loaded about 1400lbs heavier because of its weight rating. They were all loaded to 81% of rated tow capacity. The Dodge was last and didn't have any extra weight added. Good test . Mike Z
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=115662/pageId=98012

For the towing test, they added 2,440 lbs. of ballast to the Silverado, and 3,700 lbs. of ballast to the F-350, while the Dodge had no ballast. Despite this substantial handicap, the Silverado took just over 12 minutes to pull the 8,620 lb. trailer up the hill, while the Dodge took nearly 13 minutes and slowed down to 46.7mph in the process, over 6mph slower than the Chevy.

While I understand why the testers imposed this handicap, it doesn't really make much sense because the average owner is interested in how each truck would do performing the same tasks, not different tasks based on maximum GCWR.

The Chevy had the lightest measured curb weight at 7,420 lbs. (the 6,552 lb. published curb weight they referred to is actually the base weight with 6.0L gas engine). As weighed on a certified truck scale, the Silverado was 460 lbs. lighter than the Dodge (which is much shorter because it only had a 6.5' bed), and 760 lbs. lighter than the Ford.

Both the Chevy & Dodge had 3.73 axle ratios, while the Ford had a stump-pulling 4.3 ratio, which probably helps explain why it only got 12.4 mpg overall, vs. 14.1 mpg for the Chevy.

Good test- seemed to be fairly done as far as "car magazine" tests go.
One thing- They sure seemed to give the made in mexico dodge kudos for the interior didn't they?



Well, go drive a mega cab. If you don't give it kudos for its interior space then you have obviously never sat in the back of your truck. Also they called the ford's interior dated? Has Chevy changed their interior in oh...10 years or so? Sit in a 3/4 ton chevy and try to imagine you are not in a half ton. A half ton Ford has more interior room than a 3/4 ton GM. But you have to love that D/A!

Bill

Not true. Mercedes uses there own, tele-aid. The difference between the 2, onstar works.;)


ain't that the truth. tele-aid is badddddddd....(i was a benz parts guy for 12 years)

I see that the Dodge man ONLY HAS A 27' 5TH WHEEL? What would happen if he had a real trailer? Just asking. Howard

Well, go drive a mega cab. If you don't give it kudos for its interior space then you have obviously never sat in the back of your truck. Also they called the ford's interior dated? Has Chevy changed their interior in oh...10 years or so? Sit in a 3/4 ton chevy and try to imagine you are not in a half ton. A half ton Ford has more interior room than a 3/4 ton GM. But you have to love that D/A!

Bill

Never said it wasn't big... just don't like the 2X4 for support seats and cheesy interiors of the dodge. As far as that goes, my friend's titan CC rear seat is one heck of a lot bigger and more comfortable than the GM.
Still can't change the fact that the dodges are hecho en mexico.
:)

The dodge has some serious setbacks..no doubt about it. Where it was built means nothing to me or most other consumers. I spent two years working for chrysler at the headquarters in detroit. Doing R&D electronics. After working with and around UAW workers for those two years...I would buy a truck made in south africa as long as they promised the UAW never laid a hand on it. Could not care less where it is built...only the product quality that ends up in my hands. The D/A is the best motor engine combo out there, but the styling is dated, the 3/4 ton is to small and the fuel tank on the short bed is a joke. No truck currently made is perfect, but the D/A seems to be the best overall package which is why it gets our money.

Bill

If our GM/CHEV trucks were as bad as the other 2 say we couldn't afford to run them and would have traded them for something else.